Major overheating - 460 Ford Forum
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post #1 of 18 (permalink) Old 09-07-2009, 12:59 PM Thread Starter
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Major overheating

Ok, I've got the 72 Lincoln Mark IV with the Ford 460.

I've been having this horrible overheating issue, but funny, it seems to run perfect until you park it. Then it gets hotter. As long as the engine is running, nothing is wrong, but if you run it for a while, then kill the engine the temp gauge just jumps.

I've replaced the thermostat, even bought a lower temp one. The water pump has been checked and is perfectly fine. No loose bearings or anything like that. The radiator was just replaced by a brand new one.

I did notice, however, when replacing the radiator the fan blades were facing the cup of the blade towards the radiator. I felt behind it and it was pushing all the engine heat back through the radiator. So I flipped the blades back around, and it seemed to work for a little bit, but still overheating like a mad man.

I can't figure this out. The only things I can say (in my opinion) would be something related to it would be the fact that it does burn through oil quite a bit. And the idle is horribly choppy. Not to the point where it sputters and tries to die, but just shakes the engine like crazy until you give it gas. As soon as it receives any gas it's smooth sailing.

Anyone have any suggestions? I can't figure it out, and with over $500 put into my cooling system alone with no results, it's killing me and my wallet.
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post #2 of 18 (permalink) Old 09-07-2009, 01:13 PM
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does it have a fan clutch , but really sounds like air in the coolant system
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post #3 of 18 (permalink) Old 09-07-2009, 01:17 PM
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Temp. will go up when you first shut a motor off because the coolant stops moving.This is called heat sink.The block is still hot and it's still transfering heat to the coolant,after a while it will cool down.If your temp. is normal other wise and it isn't boiling over I wouldn't worry to much about it.Just get it tuned up make sure your timing is right.And after you drive it let it idle for a couple of minutes before you shut it off.

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post #4 of 18 (permalink) Old 09-07-2009, 01:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by imd240zman View Post
Ok, I've got the 72 Lincoln Mark IV with the Ford 460.

I've been having this horrible overheating issue, but funny, it seems to run perfect until you park it. Then it gets hotter. As long as the engine is running, nothing is wrong, but if you run it for a while, then kill the engine the temp gauge just jumps.
I've replaced the thermostat, even bought a lower temp one. The water pump has been checked and is perfectly fine. No loose bearings or anything like that. The radiator was just replaced by a brand new one.

I did notice, however, when replacing the radiator the fan blades were facing the cup of the blade towards the radiator. I felt behind it and it was pushing all the engine heat back through the radiator. So I flipped the blades back around, and it seemed to work for a little bit, but still overheating like a mad man.

I can't figure this out. The only things I can say (in my opinion) would be something related to it would be the fact that it does burn through oil quite a bit. And the idle is horribly choppy. Not to the point where it sputters and tries to die, but just shakes the engine like crazy until you give it gas. As soon as it receives any gas it's smooth sailing.Anyone have any suggestions? I can't figure it out, and with over $500 put into my cooling system alone with no results, it's killing me and my wallet.
It is normal to get a rise in a mechanical temp gauge after you shut an engine off, as there is no more cooling going on. As long as it isn't overheating while running, I would think you are okay. What temps are you seeing during drive, at idle, and then after you kill the engine? I would also check the timing with a light, borrow one if you need to.

If it idles rough and shakes until you give it some throttle, I would think that you likely have a vacuum leak. Check for bad or missing vacuum caps and hoses, if you haven't replaced them in a while.

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post #5 of 18 (permalink) Old 09-07-2009, 01:44 PM
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ther both right, its normal, i missed the part were you said it heats when you shut it off when you stopped, i thought it was when idling parked

mine always runs hot but then again at the drag strip it loves it, runs like a rapped ape at 220-230
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post #6 of 18 (permalink) Old 09-08-2009, 08:31 AM Thread Starter
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I don't think it's actually that normal

You see, yes the car has normal tendencies to overheat after the car is off. But the trigger on the car that allows the starter to turn won't engage. When the car gets too hot it stops the engine from cranking over so that it can cool to a comfortable temperature. And the way the car is acting, that can take anywhere between 1 and 3 hours. Which means I have to spend either 1 or 3 hours in Walmart if I want to buy groceries. How normal is that?
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post #7 of 18 (permalink) Old 09-08-2009, 11:43 AM
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Well you got me there,I never heard of this trigger before.But I did have a problem like that before and it was a weak starter it would turn the motor over okay when it was cold but when it was hot it wouldn't I'd have to wait an hour or so to let it cool down.The bushings on the starter shaft were worn and the armachure would ground out it sounded like a low battery.Check your timing to if it's to advance it mite give you that kind of trouble to. And give it a good tune up to like mudbogtom said you could have a vacuum issue as well.

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post #8 of 18 (permalink) Old 09-08-2009, 09:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by imd240zman View Post
You see, yes the car has normal tendencies to overheat after the car is off. But the trigger on the car that allows the starter to turn won't engage. When the car gets too hot it stops the engine from cranking over so that it can cool to a comfortable temperature. And the way the car is acting, that can take anywhere between 1 and 3 hours. Which means I have to spend either 1 or 3 hours in Walmart if I want to buy groceries. How normal is that?
The symptoms you are describing could very well be tune related. What do you have the timing set at currently? Have you checked the vacuum caps and hoses?

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post #9 of 18 (permalink) Old 09-08-2009, 11:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by imd240zman View Post
You see, yes the car has normal tendencies to overheat after the car is off. But the trigger on the car that allows the starter to turn won't engage. When the car gets too hot it stops the engine from cranking over so that it can cool to a comfortable temperature. And the way the car is acting, that can take anywhere between 1 and 3 hours. Which means I have to spend either 1 or 3 hours in Walmart if I want to buy groceries. How normal is that?

sounds like a starter issue to me more....... also if you want some extra help starting when its hot you can get a starter retard box from MSD i use one and it pulls 10 degrees out the timing when i start the car .......... GREAT for starting the car when its warm
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post #10 of 18 (permalink) Old 09-08-2009, 11:15 PM
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I am assuming the "trigger" you are referring to is the starter solenoid? I agree with the others, doesn't sound like an overheating issue, it sounds like it could be a heatsoak issue with the starter or solenoid. There is no "safety" that prevents it from starting if the motor is too hot. It just sounds like your starter may be worn out and not able to turn the motor over when it has been heated up by the motor. My recommendation would be to make sure the tune is right and if it still does it, replace the starter, or maybe try just the solenoid first if you have a remote solenoid.
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post #11 of 18 (permalink) Old 09-23-2009, 03:01 AM
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Just out of curiosity, what does the temp guage on your Lincoln read when it overheats? I have a 72 Mark IV too, but since these cars didn't come with a temp guage from the factory (there's an engine temp light that goes off when the car overheats), I was just wondering what temperature the car considers hot enough to turn the engine temp light on. I suspect my 72 of running hot, but the engine temp light on the dash doesn't ever light up. I know its supposed to work because it lights up when I turn the ignition switch, but I've never put alot of faith in idiot lights. I'd prefer a guage and hope to get one soon, but in the meantime, I was just wondering how hot your engine gets and at what temperature the engine temp light comes on?
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post #12 of 18 (permalink) Old 09-23-2009, 06:25 AM
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Trigger that keeps it from starting? What the HELL is that? Sounds like possibly a bad ground, bad connection on the positive cable or a starter that needs replacing.
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post #13 of 18 (permalink) Old 09-23-2009, 05:56 PM
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Trigger that keeps it from starting? What the HELL is that? Sounds like possibly a bad ground, bad connection on the positive cable or a starter that needs replacing.
I think he's talking about the starter/solenoid assembly. I have the same problem with my 72 Mark IV. Sometimes when you try to crank the car when the engine's hot, all it does is "click" when you turn the key. I believe it's just the solenoid overheating in my case. Most times, you can keep turning the key and eventually convince the starter to engage. At other times, if you wait until the engine cools down some, it'll crank then. When the engine's cold, there's no problem at all- the starter engages immediately when you turn the key.

Here's a question that I'm curious about personally, and it would probably help 240ZMan (with his hot cranking issues, at least): Does anybody make a kit for a remote-mounted solenoid for a 429/460? You know, where you can mount the solenoid on the fender like most other Fords? I know they make a kit like that for GM's, but I've never seen one for a 385-series. Getting the selenoid away from the heat of the engine/exhaust manifold/pipes couldn't hurt.
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post #14 of 18 (permalink) Old 10-02-2009, 05:48 PM Thread Starter
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Solenoid

I haven't actually got the temp gauge in yet. But I can tell you this,... I have now replaced my ENTIRE ignition system, and the entire cooling system. And,... it's still overheating. But it doesn't say that it is. And the weird thing is, today I got to work at 9am. When I got off at 3pm, the car was still registering as hot. It wouldn't start. So I popped the hood, felt the engine, and it was slightly warm. Though I suspect that of being caused by the freshly paved parking lot and the outdoor thermometer reading 98. But it fired up immediately after that. I asked around a number of places. Some said check this, check that, blah blah blah. And all of it has been diagnosed and replaced, same issue. The only guy who makes any sense is saying that because the coil is mounted on top of the engine, move it,... and the head gaskets could be rotted, allowing exhaust gas to heat up the coolant.

I have yet to test that theory. He said to remove the belts from the water pump, turn the car on, and when it heats up watch the water in the radiator. If it is moving or bubbling, then it's a head gasket.

He did also mention the starter solenoid,... but I have a BRAND NEW starter. And it just slowly developed the issue. When she does try to start, even after being hot, it has no issues cranking. But the engine can still run crappy if it's too hot. I don't understand one thing, though. If for some reason it is the ignition coil overheating,... could age cause that? Because in my logic it doesn't seem right that the engine should over heat the coil. Especially if it's the stock parts.
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post #15 of 18 (permalink) Old 10-02-2009, 06:37 PM
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Heat.

If it was the coil, it would turn over like normal. "Does anybody make a kit for a remote-mounted solenoid for a 429/460?" It is the same solenoid as the ch*vy so it woks for Ford too. My starter had the same style solenoid with a heat shield on it. Could be part of your problem if you don't have it on.

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