4 valve 429 commercial engine info - 460 Ford Forum
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post #1 of 22 (permalink) Old 09-13-2009, 06:57 PM Thread Starter
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Thumbs up 4 valve 429 commercial engine info

I am buying an 82 F-800 with a 429 4v in it an am in need of any info that pertains to the commercial 385 blocks etc. I canít find any info on any of these engines I know that the blocks of the 370 and 429 are unique to these engines compared to the regular 429 and 460 any info would be appreciated

thanks, Eric
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post #2 of 22 (permalink) Old 09-13-2009, 08:38 PM
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I think the 4v refers to the carb having 4 barrels. Far as I know there are no 4 valve 429's.

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post #3 of 22 (permalink) Old 09-13-2009, 08:48 PM
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from what i know

the truck engines have a bigger shout on the crank, and "basically" that is it...

the 4V stands for venturi, not valve.

sean
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post #4 of 22 (permalink) Old 09-13-2009, 10:16 PM
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Originally Posted by sonikboom View Post
I am buying an 82 F-800 with a 429 4v in it an am in need of any info that pertains to the commercial 385 blocks etc. I canít find any info on any of these engines I know that the blocks of the 370 and 429 are unique to these engines compared to the regular 429 and 460 any info would be appreciated

thanks, Eric
Eric,

The 429 commercial truck engine arrived around the 1979 model year. It uses the D9TE-AB cylinder block just like the 1979-up light truck 460 engines (F250, E250, etc).

Some clues that it is a commercial 370/429 engine:
  • A 370/429 commercial truck engine would be a D9TE-AB block (429 commercial) or D9TE-BB block (370 Commercial)
  • Cast iron timing cover
  • Center-collecting exhaust manifolds
  • "Full-length" rear sump oil pan
  • 1.750 diameter crankshaft snout
  • (Other exterior engine accessories that you ain't never seen on a passenger car engine)
429 Commerical Engine internals differences include:
  • A commercial engine-specific 4-ring piston with a taller pin height (2.09")
  • A commercial engine-specific shorter connecting rod (6.38") to accommodate the pistons with the taller pin height
  • Double roller timing chain with cast iron gears
  • (more)

Paul

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Performance Components for the 429/460 Engine Family
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post #5 of 22 (permalink) Old 09-13-2009, 10:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul Kane View Post
Eric,

The 429 commercial truck engine arrived around the 1979 model year. It uses the D9TE-AB cylinder block just like the 1979-up light truck 460 engines (F250, E250, etc).

Some clues that it is a commercial 370/429 engine:
  • A 370/429 commercial truck engine would be a D9TE-AB block (429 commercial) or D9TE-BB block (370 Commercial)
  • Cast iron timing cover
  • Center-collecting exhaust manifolds
  • "Full-length" rear sump oil pan
  • 1.750 diameter crankshaft snout
  • (Other exterior engine accessories that you ain't never seen on a passenger car engine)
429 Commerical Engine internals differences include:
  • A commercial engine-specific 4-ring piston with a taller pin height (2.09")
  • A commercial engine-specific shorter connecting rod (6.38") to accommodate the pistons with the taller pin height
  • Double roller timing chain with cast iron gears
  • (more)

Paul
Paul... if a guy was to come across one of these, are there any specialty parts that would be worth salvaging?

Tom

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post #6 of 22 (permalink) Old 09-13-2009, 10:39 PM
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the crank is forged steel so its worth keeping. i sold one not to long ago.

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post #7 of 22 (permalink) Old 09-13-2009, 11:03 PM
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Paul... if a guy was to come across one of these, are there any specialty parts that would be worth salvaging?

Tom
Depends what you are doing with a given build, Tom. There certainly was a time a few years back when certain commercial 429 engine components were indeed desirable, because the Ford guys had little else to turn without spending thousands, but today the performance aftermarket parts are everywhere for our engines and are also available for less than it costs to use and/or modify the commercial truck parts for a performance application.

For example, of all the parts that are different in the commercial truck engines, the parts that might be considered interesting to a performance enthuisast (but costly compared to today's aftermarket offerings) would probably be:
  • D9TE-AB block: Perfectly usable and interchangable with any other D9TE-AB block -- verdict: it's the same block--grab it.
  • Center-collecting exhaust manifolds: If you want 'em for some reason, I don't. Some truck pullers have speculated on their possible performance level since they have a cavernous inside with a big exhaust donut. Unknown performance entity, but likely little-to-no performance use for the hot rodder--verdict: pass on them
  • Full-length" rear sump oil pan: A very nice factory full-length pan, but virtually no baffling and no windage tray. Also, it won't clear most passenger car/light truck engine crossmembers. Valuable in the right application; some fabrication may be required (baffling/ windage tray/etc) for higher performance use...verdict: to many this pan is still worth getting--grab it
  • 1.75" diameter crankshaft snout: The 370 almost always has a cast version of this crankshaft, but the 429 commercial crank is forged. In the past this has been one of the most sought-after parts of the commercial engines but their demand has lessened dramatically since the offshore 4340 forgings hit the market. Here's why: The commercial truck crank is forged of 1053 steel, not 4340 chromoly like the offshore cranks; the 1.75" diameter snout of the commercial truck cranks must be machined to a smaller diameter, and their crank flange must be machined to passenger car specs. They can be offset stroked to only 3.875" stroke 2.200 BBC jorunal unless they are welded on, so the gains there are not that great amidst the stroker frenzy. And at this point the cost of the used crank plus the machining (snout/flange/stroke) has put you near the price of a brand new 4340 forging. So unless you need a short stroke crank and/or need the big snout for PTO, it does not make a lot of sense for most enthusiasts to go this route these days...but, there are still people that need them for the aforementioned reasons of a short-stroke forging or because the power is taken from the snout instead of the flywheel. The forged truck crank has value even if you don't need it yourself--verdict: grab it.
  • Cast iron timing cover: 5 times the weight of the aluminum version, plus the machined seal diameter won't work with the standard 429/460 1.375" diameter passenger car snout's seal. verdict: Little-to-no performance use--pass on them
  • Double roller timing chain with cast iron gears: The crank gear in this timing chain set is machined for the commercial truck crank's 1.75" diameter snout, and so it wouldn't fit the passnger car's 1.375" diameter snout. This makes it useless unless you are using the commercial truck crank with the big snout. verdict: Little-to-no performance use--pass on them (unless you need one to work with the 1.75" diameter snout, but just buy a new commercial chain set for that.)

Paul

We're On The Web; Click Below:
High Flow Dynamics
Performance Components for the 429/460 Engine Family

Last edited by Paul Kane; 09-13-2009 at 11:13 PM.
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post #8 of 22 (permalink) Old 09-13-2009, 11:08 PM
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As usual... very informative.

Thanks Paul

Tom

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post #9 of 22 (permalink) Old 09-14-2009, 02:05 PM
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The center collector exhaust manifolds would make a nice looking setup for a vintage rod, though, especially if they have decent flow.

Brad
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post #10 of 22 (permalink) Old 09-14-2009, 09:01 PM
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cast iron timing cover

Does the cast iron timing cover share the same dimensions as the aluminum passenger car except the seal? The engine I came across has an engine mount bracket attached to the front of the engine. If they are the same, and a guy was swapping a 460 based engine into something odd that could use this style mount, I would think it would be handy to have. For some reason I was thinking some of the older International trucks had a similar engine mount arrangement.

Tom

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post #11 of 22 (permalink) Old 09-14-2009, 09:33 PM
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Chevy engines in bluebird buses had a similar setup,they had a mount that bolted to front of engine.

Rob
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post #12 of 22 (permalink) Old 09-14-2009, 09:59 PM
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Originally Posted by mudbogtom View Post
Does the cast iron timing cover share the same dimensions as the aluminum passenger car except the seal? The engine I came across has an engine mount bracket attached to the front of the engine. If they are the same, and a guy was swapping a 460 based engine into something odd that could use this style mount, I would think it would be handy to have. For some reason I was thinking some of the older International trucks had a similar engine mount arrangement.

Tom
Tom,

If I remember correctly, they are slightly different in configuration. I think all the bolt holes are the same length around its perimeter, for example (unlike the passenger car timing cover which has different depth bolt holes), and I think there are other differences like waterpump cavity shape, etc. Don't know about interchangability, but I do have one and I'll snap a picture with a passenger car one alongside and post it....might be a few days.

Now that I think about it, I held onto it for a reason, like using it with a 1.75 truck snout...super heavy thing, intended to lighten, etc. Not sure it's worth all the work.

I'll get pics.

Paul

We're On The Web; Click Below:
High Flow Dynamics
Performance Components for the 429/460 Engine Family

Last edited by Paul Kane; 09-14-2009 at 10:01 PM.
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post #13 of 22 (permalink) Old 09-14-2009, 10:27 PM
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A couple days is no biggie. I don't see me needing this stuff in the near future, but I might snag this thing and pull the parts you suggested.

Tom

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post #14 of 22 (permalink) Old 09-18-2009, 10:59 AM
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Tom,

If I remember correctly, they are slightly different in configuration. I think all the bolt holes are the same length around its perimeter, for example (unlike the passenger car timing cover which has different depth bolt holes), and I think there are other differences like waterpump cavity shape, etc. Don't know about interchangability, but I do have one and I'll snap a picture with a passenger car one alongside and post it....might be a few days.

I'll get pics.

Paul
Here are the pictures. The cast iron commercial timing cover is on the left and the typical passenger car timing cover is on the right. Sure enough, the waterpump cavity as been updated in the commercial cover so that the anti-cavitation plate is no longer needed. Also notice the ribbing around the crank seal.



Also in the above picture, the timing cover mounting bolt holes around the perimeter are the same length indeed (unlike the passenger car cover) and have a machined surface. That's why I kept this cover, I thought a motor plate would mount very easily on the lower 4 holes where the machining is already done. But this cover is super-heavy. Here's the backside:



Paul

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Performance Components for the 429/460 Engine Family

Last edited by Paul Kane; 09-18-2009 at 11:01 AM.
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post #15 of 22 (permalink) Old 09-18-2009, 02:48 PM
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Paul,
Because truck pull guys, such as me, dont care about weight nearly as much, they (me) could be interested in these.
one question: did you have an idea as to what to do about the crank seal?
my thoughts would be going to the bearing and seal store and finding one to fit that hole and the correct snout diameter... or is there a better/easier/different way?

Despite what you've heard, opportunity does not knock
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