460 with 390 flywheel, starter? - 460 Ford Forum
Engine Tech A place to discuss all 385-series engine tech and theory.

User Tag List

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
post #1 of 22 (permalink) Old 01-04-2010, 06:22 AM Thread Starter
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Southern Illinois
Posts: 13
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
 
460 with 390 flywheel, starter?

I'm in the process of swapping out my dead C6 for an NP435 in my 77.5 F-250 4x4. I plan on buying a 390 flywheel for a 76 F-250 with a 184 tooth count and can't find any info about using a 390 starter on a 460. I'm using a 400 bellhousing with a 3/16" plate in place of the backplate to help clear my 12" clutch. I just wanted to make sure i had a starter that engaged the flywheel completly. Thanks for any help.
redfordpuller is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 22 (permalink) Old 01-04-2010, 10:27 AM
Senior Member
 
72puller's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Lebanon Mo.
Posts: 361
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
 
460 starter will work. I have two trucks with 184 tooth flywheels and 460 starter.

Dennis

Last edited by 72puller; 01-07-2010 at 08:56 AM. Reason: typo
72puller is online now  
post #3 of 22 (permalink) Old 01-04-2010, 12:58 PM
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Cuba MO
Posts: 4,958
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 39 Post(s)
 
We had a customer who did this and he couldn't figure out why the starter drive wouldn't last very long. I think he ended up using the 460 starter with a drive for a 390 and the 390 wheel and it worked ok, I think....

Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic --Arthur C. Clarke

Dave McLain
McLain's Automotive
DaveMcLain is offline  
post #4 of 22 (permalink) Old 01-04-2010, 06:52 PM
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: antelope ca
Posts: 723
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
 
Smile starter

x3 use the 460 starter. I'm using the 460 mini starter on that flywheel and it has worked flawlessly for 6 years now.
blown473 is offline  
post #5 of 22 (permalink) Old 01-04-2010, 07:45 PM
Senior Member
 
bbstickstang's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: oswego,sc
Posts: 716
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
 
Send a message via Yahoo to bbstickstang
Quote:
Originally Posted by redfordpuller View Post
I'm in the process of swapping out my dead C6 for an NP435 in my 77.5 F-250 4x4. I plan on buying a 390 flywheel for a 76 F-250 with a 184 tooth count and can't find any info about using a 390 starter on a 460. I'm using a 400 bellhousing with a 3/16" plate in place of the backplate to help clear my 12" clutch. I just wanted to make sure i had a starter that engaged the flywheel completly. Thanks for any help.
zoom FE 184 th wheel, lakewood can, I ended up using the late model sbf starter with the bigger registar and the 3/4" offset. good mesh both radial and longitude. the stock 460 didnt work for me because not enough tooth engagement longitude. 390 starter didnt work because the "hump" hit one of my header tubes.the late model truck starter didnt work because it didnt not engage enough either way.the lakewood can rotates the starter and changes the mesh if the starter has a non centered pinion. i put a gear reduction stater on it to help crank the 12:1 motor, a powermaster 9503 ( i think).........ron

5.89@115 New best, 1.31 60', 12-5-15 All Muscle and No Steroids!
69fb mustang ,509,Liberty Equalizer,5.29 ,31x10.5 w ,3309 w/driver.
I get to feel the torque of a BBF 4 times an 1/8 and 5 times a 1/4.
www.classicgearjammers.org
bbstickstang is offline  
post #6 of 22 (permalink) Old 01-04-2010, 09:41 PM
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Roseville MI
Posts: 10,788
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 86 Post(s)
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by 72puller View Post
He must have had a 188 tooth flywheel. The starter drive for a 460 starter and one for a 360 are the same. I had problems with a 390 once and the parts store had sold me a starter for a 184 tooth and it had a 188 tooth wheel. The Mcloed flywheel on my pulling truck came with 184 teeth and is for a 460-429. I have always used a stock 460 starter on it without trouble.
Maybe they exist but, I have never in over 30 years come accross a 188 tooth flywheel with the regular automotive / light truck FE or 429/460 diameter.
150some teeth, 176 teeth, 180 teeth and 184 teeth but, never 188 of that diameter.
The McCloud / Weber flywheel dedicated for a 385 series engine is also sold by FRPP as the Z460 with a removable weight for "zero" or "counter" balanced applications and it has 176 teeth.

www.rmcompetition.com

R.M. Competition - The finest Custom Engine Building for any venue ... !
Selling Parts and Supplies from companies I use ... 1(586)909-1591

CUSTOM ground camshafts
Carburetor modifications for specific applications
CNC porting

Last edited by rmcomprandy; 01-04-2010 at 09:47 PM.
rmcomprandy is online now  
post #7 of 22 (permalink) Old 01-05-2010, 04:14 AM
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Conyers, GA
Posts: 480
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
 
Send a message via AIM to OldRedFord
What would be the reason for using the 390 flywheel?

2002 Ford Ranger 4x4
1972 Ford F100 Sport Custom
460, C6, 9" rear, lwb
OldRedFord is offline  
post #8 of 22 (permalink) Old 01-05-2010, 08:29 AM
Senior Member
 
Mark Laczo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Rimbey, Alberta, Canada
Posts: 891
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
 
flywheel

Quote:
Originally Posted by OldRedFord View Post
What would be the reason for using the 390 flywheel?
Because they are easy to find, cheap, and more importantly Zero balance. In the early 90's I actually paid something like $250 for a 460 flywheel from L&L to run a heavy duty 12" clutch. On a different truck I had earlier done the 390 flywheel with a custom built 11" clutch and used a regular 400 Ford starter that usually lasts about 5-7 years and the difference in durability pulling trailers and hard farm abuse was negligible.

FWIW Mark
Mark Laczo is offline  
post #9 of 22 (permalink) Old 01-05-2010, 10:11 PM
Junior Member
 
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 6
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
 
flywheel and starter

The 390 flywheel ring is .009 inch smaller than the 460. The pitch diameter is the same. That means the teeth are exactly the same profile. What does change is the number of teeth on the ring. If you use a 390 ring you will not totally engage the teeth properly with a 460 starter. In other words, the starter will be too far away by about .005 inch. [1/2 the .009]
Will it work? Most likely. Will it work exactly right? Never. I had Kentucky Clutch balance a flywheel for me recently. I had a 1986 ext balanced flywheel that I needed to make into a neutral balance to fit a 1977 internal balance 460 that was going to replace the 1986. I had a machine shop turn the trapezoid lug off of the back of the 1986 wheel. KY Clutch then only had to drill a couple of holes to balance the wheel to 1/4 oz. If you need this kind of help, it is hard to beat this shop, their price, or their knowledge.
TonyS is offline  
post #10 of 22 (permalink) Old 01-06-2010, 05:45 PM Thread Starter
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Southern Illinois
Posts: 13
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
 
Thanks for all the help guys, i'm gonna try one of my 460 starters on it and see what it sounds like.
redfordpuller is offline  
post #11 of 22 (permalink) Old 04-22-2010, 05:29 PM
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Posts: 1
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
 
I have a 1979 ford that had a c6 auto trans. I took it out and found a 400 bellhousing and 390 flywheel to bolt up to my 460. It works great other than my starter does not engage deep enough in the teeth. It keeps takin the outer edge of my teeth off and the flywheel is 184 tooth. Any help would be appreciated. Thanks
Fordman123 is offline  
post #12 of 22 (permalink) Old 04-22-2010, 07:12 PM
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Roseville MI
Posts: 10,788
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 86 Post(s)
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fordman123 View Post
I have a 1979 ford that had a c6 auto trans. I took it out and found a 400 bellhousing and 390 flywheel to bolt up to my 460. It works great other than my starter does not engage deep enough in the teeth. It keeps takin the outer edge of my teeth off and the flywheel is 184 tooth. Any help would be appreciated. Thanks
Like Dave said, use a 390 starter bendix in a 460 starter or use a 3 bolt 390 starter; (just don't use the center mounting bolt).
You could also always buy the correct flywheel from FRPP.

www.rmcompetition.com

R.M. Competition - The finest Custom Engine Building for any venue ... !
Selling Parts and Supplies from companies I use ... 1(586)909-1591

CUSTOM ground camshafts
Carburetor modifications for specific applications
CNC porting
rmcomprandy is online now  
post #13 of 22 (permalink) Old 04-22-2010, 09:54 PM
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Rapid City South Dakota
Posts: 586
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
 
I just had the machine shop ZERO balance my late model flywheel. Problem solved. No FE BS to try to make work.

93 F150 4x4 Big Block Ford Truck!
Fordtrucks is offline  
post #14 of 22 (permalink) Old 04-22-2010, 11:49 PM
Senior Member
 
BOSS 429's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: ILL
Posts: 3,110
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 26 Post(s)
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by OldRedFord View Post
What would be the reason for using the 390 flywheel?


ok, because if you use a 351m or 400 bell you have to use a 390 or any net ballance wheel,other wise no starter will work,a real 429 wheel is a diff od,and will not work right with a 400 bell,

as far as starters go

you can use a 351m,400,429 or 460 starter, ive done this swap about 30 or more times for people

RICH
CIRCLE (R) 815 712 8738
--------------------------------
815-712-8738
BUY,SELL, or TRADE B B FORD parts
Dynoed or Test ran
CLYINDER HEAD PORTING
COMPLETE ENGINES avb
From STOCK to NOT
BOSS 429 is offline  
post #15 of 22 (permalink) Old 04-23-2010, 08:48 AM
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Roseville MI
Posts: 10,788
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 86 Post(s)
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by BOSS 429 View Post
ok, because if you use a 351m or 400 bell you have to use a 390 or any net ballance wheel,other wise no starter will work,a real 429 wheel is a diff od,and will not work right with a 400 bell,

as far as starters go

you can use a 351m,400,429 or 460 starter, ive done this swap about 30 or more times for people
A 390 FE and a 460 "automotive" flywheel are within a few THOUSANDTHS of one another on the ring gear O.D. Just the tooth count is different.
EDIT: Yes ... A production 351M/400 and production 460 use the same starter ...

www.rmcompetition.com

R.M. Competition - The finest Custom Engine Building for any venue ... !
Selling Parts and Supplies from companies I use ... 1(586)909-1591

CUSTOM ground camshafts
Carburetor modifications for specific applications
CNC porting

Last edited by rmcomprandy; 08-01-2012 at 09:19 AM.
rmcomprandy is online now  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Reply
Gear in this thread - Powered by O'Reilly Auto Parts

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the 460 Ford Forum forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.

User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in









Human Verification

In order to verify that you are a human and not a spam bot, please enter the answer into the following box below based on the instructions contained in the graphic.



Thread Tools Search this Thread
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes
Linear Mode Linear Mode



Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome