roller rocker question - 460 Ford Forum
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post #1 of 12 (permalink) Old 06-06-2013, 06:19 PM Thread Starter
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roller rocker question

hey guys,getting to the end of my 545 build and was checking p.rod length i have no issue other than push rods seem to rub inside of rocker coming up on full lift??this is the deal....kaase p51s assembled by them.cam k1 kaase.intake.791 exhaust.787 duration @.050 273/280 and comp solid roller lifters. scorpion roller rockers they have 2 styles for bbf (different shaped bodys) tried both. and on my last engine worked well with .730 lift.... so im thinking try the comp ultra pro magnum xd's the rocker body seems not so beefy??so am i missing anything or anybody else try these? as i said no issue this would be with 3/8s p.rod, played with 5/16 checker for kicks still kinda tight?thanks for looking jon
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post #2 of 12 (permalink) Old 06-06-2013, 07:29 PM
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Originally Posted by jkcamperspecial View Post
hey guys,getting to the end of my 545 build and was checking p.rod length i have no issue other than push rods seem to rub inside of rocker coming up on full lift??this is the deal....kaase p51s assembled by them.cam k1 kaase.intake.791 exhaust.787 duration @.050 273/280 and comp solid roller lifters. scorpion roller rockers they have 2 styles for bbf (different shaped bodys) tried both. and on my last engine worked well with .730 lift.... so im thinking try the comp ultra pro magnum xd's the rocker body seems not so beefy??so am i missing anything or anybody else try these? as i said no issue this would be with 3/8s p.rod, played with 5/16 checker for kicks still kinda tight?thanks for looking jon
It sounds like the pushrod is a bit to long for matching the rest of the parts used in that valve train.

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post #3 of 12 (permalink) Old 06-06-2013, 09:08 PM Thread Starter
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It sounds like the pushrod is a bit to long for matching the rest of the parts used in that valve train.
thanks randy for the response.am i wrong with the thinking the steel comps have less material than the aluminum rockers ?as i stated i have no issue with retainer clearance,guide plate clearance,and roller rides were it should.do you feel ok with clearancing the rocker (making a pocket) so to speak?ill try making the checker shorter tomorrow and see what happens.thanks jon

Last edited by jkcamperspecial; 06-06-2013 at 09:11 PM. Reason: added word
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post #4 of 12 (permalink) Old 06-28-2013, 04:08 PM Thread Starter
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thanks randy for the response.am i wrong with the thinking the steel comps have less material than the aluminum rockers ?as i stated i have no issue with retainer clearance,guide plate clearance,and roller rides were it should.do you feel ok with clearancing the rocker (making a pocket) so to speak?ill try making the checker shorter tomorrow and see what happens.thanks jon
well after playing with both rocker part #'s from scorpion and every length scenario you can imagine on the push rod tool.(still having push rod clearance issue's on back of rocker) i grabbed a set of comps xd's. and letme tell ya what a difference!so just thought id put it out there ...if your running big cams and run into what i was.check the comps out plenty of clearance in all three area's.. thanks jon!
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post #5 of 12 (permalink) Old 06-28-2013, 05:13 PM
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At this point I'm impressed with the XD steel rockers. I suspect you made a good move.

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post #6 of 12 (permalink) Old 06-28-2013, 06:15 PM
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Based on what I've come to learn about Scorpion rockers, I think I understand why their rocker bodies are so large/designed with a lot of rocker body material. I will not recommend them for big-springed solid roller cammed engines and think you made a get wise move by steering clear of them. There are FAR superior choices in aluminum rockers for your roller-cammed applications. Opting for a steel rocker body can be fine as well.

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post #7 of 12 (permalink) Old 06-28-2013, 06:25 PM
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as i stated i have no issue with retainer clearance,guide plate clearance,and roller rides were it should.
The pushrod is to long ... probably by a lot. There is no perfect place where the roller should ride on the valve tip with a Big block Ford valve train. As long as it stays ON THE VALVE TIP at least .030" from the edge it is OK, (with a roller tip rocker arm).

You would LIKE it to be near the middle but, NOT at the expense of the pushrod side geometry.

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post #8 of 12 (permalink) Old 06-28-2013, 10:46 PM
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post #9 of 12 (permalink) Old 06-29-2013, 07:02 AM
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I have had to do a lot valve train geometry layouts (on CAD) to investagate issues find soluitions and design totaly new set ups.
Factory stuff has what I will call geometry designed "Lift Limits". If the geometry was initialy designed for say .550 lift (some big blocks were) going up past that point will start to be trade offs tip contact, pushrod length, valve tip length. By the time one hits someting like .800 lift redesigned rockers
would solve some issues. Poly angled geometry (3 dimensional) a real pane even in 3D CAD.


Enough of that, JK did you measure to see if your lift is "as advertized" correct at the valve?
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post #10 of 12 (permalink) Old 06-29-2013, 08:44 AM Thread Starter
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I have had to do a lot valve train geometry layouts (on CAD) to investagate issues find soluitions and design totaly new set ups.
Factory stuff has what I will call geometry designed "Lift Limits". If the geometry was initialy designed for say .550 lift (some big blocks were) going up past that point will start to be trade offs tip contact, pushrod length, valve tip length. By the time one hits someting like .800 lift redesigned rockers
would solve some issues. Poly angled geometry (3 dimensional) a real pane even in 3D CAD.


Enough of that, JK did you measure to see if your lift is "as advertized" correct at the valve?
the ''lift limits''of both scorpion rockers sounds to be rite on the money!i was going to measure the lift to see if id made the cam ''lazy'' for lack of a better term.when id thought I had the scorps close.but was never happy with any set up.all rockers used were 1.73.the comp cams toss them on to mock up and intake p.rod ended up with 9.250 and 9.200 on exhaust. im good with those lengths.the comps looks very smooth and fluid in motion.my cam is .800 range for lift also. thanks for lookin guys!
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post #11 of 12 (permalink) Old 06-29-2013, 12:14 PM
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Originally Posted by jkcamperspecial View Post
the ''lift limits''of both scorpion rockers sounds to be rite on the money!i was going to measure the lift to see if id made the cam ''lazy'' for lack of a better term.when id thought I had the scorps close.but was never happy with any set up.all rockers used were 1.73.the comp cams toss them on to mock up and intake p.rod ended up with 9.250 and 9.200 on exhaust. im good with those lengths.the comps looks very smooth and fluid in motion.my cam is .800 range for lift also. thanks for lookin guys!

On a P51 headed deal your intake pushrod needs to be longer than the exhaust????






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post #12 of 12 (permalink) Old 06-29-2013, 04:12 PM Thread Starter
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On a P51 headed deal your intake pushrod needs to be longer than the exhaust????






S
we could most likely debate this for ever....lol but on this engine with those p.rod/rocker measurements every thing looks real good!believe me when i say i spent alot of time tripple checking every angle of the dangle!i dont build for a living but try to pay as much attention to detail as i possibly can.with all of every ones input and past experience. thanks jon sorry scotty i had to re check my note book the 9.250 is both i/e now.that other measurement was mixing holden style and standard part # scorpions my bad!

Last edited by jkcamperspecial; 06-30-2013 at 09:10 AM. Reason: scotty caught me lol!
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