How much HP will these headers handle? - 460 Ford Forum
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post #1 of 23 (permalink) Old 04-02-2015, 11:45 PM Thread Starter
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How much HP will these headers handle?

I am currently using these headers as they are the only off the shelf item available for my Australian Falcon. I'm in the middle of an engine rebuild and would like any guesses as to how much HP they will handle. I have a twin 3in with Magnaflow mufflers into 2 1/2 tail pipes. A set of custom made headers or out of the budget at the moment.

Try-y design
Primary Pipe: 2"
Secondary Pipe: 2"
Outlet: 2" -converted mine to 3"

http://www.pacemaker.com.au/index.ph...category_id=26
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post #2 of 23 (permalink) Old 04-03-2015, 08:23 AM
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I think your headers are ok for what you are doing but the choke down is your tail pipes, if you have 3" mufflers inlets than you need 3" outlets and 3" tail pipes, sure a bigger header would be nice but do your self a favor and change the tail pipes,
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post #3 of 23 (permalink) Old 04-03-2015, 09:22 AM
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I think your headers are ok for what you are doing but the choke down is your tail pipes, if you have 3" mufflers inlets than you need 3" outlets and 3" tail pipes, sure a bigger header would be nice but do your self a favor and change the tail pipes,
YES ... the size of the header will not be the issue.

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post #4 of 23 (permalink) Old 04-03-2015, 11:24 AM Thread Starter
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The mufflers have 3" outlets, room is a problem past this point and the "easy" solution was 2 1/2". Will try harder to see if 3" will fit.
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post #5 of 23 (permalink) Old 04-03-2015, 12:57 PM
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If you can get a crossover pipe in there somewhere before the mufflers and tail pipes it'll help even if you can't go to larger tail pipes.

Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic --Arthur C. Clarke

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post #6 of 23 (permalink) Old 04-03-2015, 07:43 PM Thread Starter
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If you can get a crossover pipe in there somewhere before the mufflers and tail pipes it'll help even if you can't go to larger tail pipes.
Hi Dave, this is the exhaust (prob should have included this at the start) which has a crossover( http://www.pacemaker.com.au/exhaust_merge.html )

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post #7 of 23 (permalink) Old 04-03-2015, 08:42 PM
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Cool

From what I can see the crush bent tail pipes are going to be the restriction.

If the pipe is 2.5" OD you can count on the bends being 2.25" OD ish let alone the resultant ID.

Mandrel bent 3" tail pipes would really be helpful.

I have an 11 to 1 SCJ-A headed pump gas 460. I went from 2.5" mandrel X, walker dynomax ultras and crush bent 2.5" tail pipes to 3" Full mandrel bent with a 3" H pipe, magnaflow 3" in/ out and 3" mandrel bent tail pipes.

471 HP at the rear wheels SAE gross.
456 HP Sae Net.


Though I lost a bit of response below peak torque at light throttle I gained a bunch of power from 3K to my 6500 rpm plus shift point. Peak Hp occurred at 6K.

Well worth the $900.00 price tag for the whole deal headers back.



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post #8 of 23 (permalink) Old 04-03-2015, 08:43 PM
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well I found the problem, steering box is on the wrong side of the car
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post #9 of 23 (permalink) Old 04-03-2015, 10:11 PM Thread Starter
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It's re-assuring to here the headers are going to last me a while longer with some improvements on the tail pipes.

When running again I'll get new tail pipes.
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post #10 of 23 (permalink) Old 04-04-2015, 02:49 AM
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We've been using Pipemax , it is an awesome program to calculate pipe sizes and crossover pipe positioning .
I'm not going to say I understand it all exactly but we have made some real nice torque + HP gains on a friends 393

It came about because we dynoed the car with an old pressbent 2.5" system , mufflers cheap redbacks .
Exhaust was changed to all 3" Mandrel bent , X pipe and nice Ultraflow mufflers . Sounds reasonable for a 393 you say Well we lost power and has taken a while to get it back with some changes in H pipe positioning .
My friend has posted the charts of our results from memory on Facebook in one of the Cleveland pages .
If I had some specs Sean I can run yours through the program . It's not the be all and end all but does give some nice data if you can understand it all

I should add , the changes we did . Originally the X pipe was at 26" from the collector . By pipemax that was the worst spot it could of been. With dyno testing we had to trial where the exact point was needed for the cross pipe . Pipemax told us that 17" was the magic point . We started longer and kept shortening it back . This was done on a chassis dyno with open headers and extensions , reducing the pipe length by 1 inch each run. As we approached the ideal length , believe it or not the AFR started to show lean and we had to alter carb settings . We got rid of the X pipe and went to a simple H pipe . Turned out 17" was the ideal spot for the H .
The exhaust was altered and the car has shown strong increase in midrange power and toque and has picked up MPH at the track

All may seem a bit strange and if I hadn't of seen the tests myself I'd find it a bit hard to believe .

Last edited by gregaust; 04-04-2015 at 02:58 AM.
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post #11 of 23 (permalink) Old 04-04-2015, 07:57 AM
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Only if you were in victoria you could use my set of custom made 4 into 1 stainless steel set on the dyno to see if there is a big difference to those try's you using. And then decide if its worth buying a set.

X-pipe should be as far forward as possible an ex Dick Johnson mechanic told me once...........yep 16-18inch is best, but evey combo is different, so only testing will find the best results.

He said they once spent 3 days testing different exhaust systems and gained an extra 22hp.
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post #12 of 23 (permalink) Old 04-04-2015, 08:39 AM Thread Starter
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Thanks Greg, what specs does the program need?

When the headers were modified they didn't put long collectors on as it was going straight into the same size exhaust, not sure if this is an area of concern.

If the engine gets to the dyno I will try a set of big block ch#vy ones (I got the Blue Thunder B heads) as a comparison to the try's.
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post #13 of 23 (permalink) Old 04-05-2015, 09:14 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by coupe545 View Post
Hi Dave, this is the exhaust (prob should have included this at the start) which has a crossover( http://www.pacemaker.com.au/exhaust_merge.html )


If you are unable to fix the problem then you simply have to put-up with the results ... there is no "magic bullet".
As said ... the power issue will NOT be the headers.

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post #14 of 23 (permalink) Old 04-05-2015, 06:48 PM Thread Starter
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If you are unable to fix the problem then you simply have to put-up with the results ... there is no "magic bullet".
As said ... the power issue will NOT be the headers.
This has always been the challenge with having a street/strip car that I've had to compromise for local laws and maintaining a certain level of original vehicle correctness....

I'm getting the feeling that the headers will be ok if some improvement is made to the rest of the exhaust, which is good for the wallet and schedule.

Last edited by coupe545; 04-05-2015 at 06:56 PM.
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post #15 of 23 (permalink) Old 04-06-2015, 02:39 AM
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Thanks Greg, what specs does the program need?

When the headers were modified they didn't put long collectors on as it was going straight into the same size exhaust, not sure if this is an area of concern.

If the engine gets to the dyno I will try a set of big block ch#vy ones (I got the Blue Thunder B heads) as a comparison to the try's.
Bore
stroke
rod length
peak HP RPM
compression ratio
Intake + exh valve diam
valve stem diameter , likely .343 I been using
camshaft valve lift int + exh
valve lash int + exh
Duration @ .050 int/exh
intake degreed centreline
lobe sep angle

exh port centreline length, if you have it or there are some default values I can use

dyno volumetric efficiency % if you have it also but not essential ..
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