I've been chasing a noisy valvetrain and breaking the oil metering plates on hydraulic flat tappet lifters for quite awhile now.
I had my 460 built by the local speed shop.
69 C9VE-A heads with 2.19/1.76 valves.
Screw in studs 1.75 Inch., guide plates
71 460 block
Trw 19cc dish pistons that were Clearenced ..120 for the larger valves.
Crower flat tappet hydraulic cam , 270/278 .541/563 , new lifters from crower , just the,standard lifters not anti pump or anything special.
Melling HV oil pump
Canton 4x4 Truck rear sump pan
We re- used my Harland sharp roller rockers from the previous 460.and the Trend 8.45 pushrods.
The engine was broken in with just the outer springs wich are ISKY , 8005A.
I'm using steel retainers.
And I'll tell you , the Valvetrain was Noisy during break in. We installed the Inner springs after break in... still noisy...
The shop told me... it will quiet down after it breaks in more....
About 1,500 miles of easy driving , still noisy,and I had adjusted the pre load to just past half turn trying to quiet it down. A LIFTER FAILED.
I Pulled the intake and #8 cyl lifter had a very thin piece of metal sticking out past the pushrod seat.
I inspected ALL 16 lifters... taking notes... almost every Lifter was or had broken the oil metering plate. These were the 4 hole style metering plates that I believe Crower uses in they're lifters.
I sent them back to crower.
They lost them
They refunded my money. I'm not throwing Crower under the bus here. I really like Crower.
Premium lifters were not available at that time (2008) that I could find at the time of the build due to the recession I believe. So by 2010 when the lifters broke... I went searching for Premium lifters... got a Beautiful set from Specialty Engine Components. / Johnson Lifters... works of Art.
Those lasted about another 3000 miles. After installing them they were pretty quiet. Some valvetrain noise.. but one got loud , started ticking.
After calling Specialty Engine Components/Johnson Lifters and performing ALL of they're tests, before pulling the intake off, Including checking for Coil bind, play in the valvetrain, loose guides ect.. they said well , I really don't think it's your lifters making the noise but mark them and send them to us.
What they found was #5 exhaust lifter. Broken oil metering plate. And the number 3 and 4 cylinder had lifters that were bleeding off / wouldn't hold pressure.
The lifter faces looked PERFECT. on all the lifters. According to myself and Joe at Specialty Engine Components.
They sent me a brand new set of 421R lifters, replaced them for free. Now that's a company that stands behind they're products. Just like Crower. Excellent companies.
After having 2 sets of lifters on a Hydraulic flat tappet cam...I decided to purchase another new camshaft from crower(The same Grind) and with the new lifters from SEC/Johnson. .. and just start over.new camshaft and new lifters... 3rd set in thus engine.
At some point during the 2nd set of lifters and original camshaft I tried using Comp Cams1830 XD rocker. And those required longer pushrods than the Harland sharps.
Im pretty sure my valvetrain geometry is correct.
I've set up VTG before.
So , I've installed the New , 2nd crower cam and the New Johnson lifters 421R I believe is the part number , Reduced Travel hydraulic lifters. Had the camshaft put on a cam doctor just to check it.. it was perfect. . Degreed the camshaft in . And broke in the new cam and lifters with just the outer springs. ..plenty of joe gibbs camshaft lube, pre oiled the engine with 10/30 valvoline and a bottle of zinc break in lube... it fired right up ran 25 minutes. Did the beak in twice at 25 minutes.
Then installed my inner springs. Wich are set up at 1.9 closed valve and 1.45 open valve. I forget the pressures at the moment 125/340 I believe.
Well , the valvetrain WAS quiet Initially. in the beginning. .YET after 120 miles cruising between 2400 and 2800 rpm. It developed a tick ftom... the #5 cylinder. Exhaust valve again. And the
here rest of the valvetrain is just too noisy.
If I keep running it.. when will these lifters fail is my gut feeling
I've adjusted these lifters to 1/2 turn, 3/4 turn , 1 full turn and 1 1/4 turn. That Didn't make any difference whatsoever in the Overall Valvetrain Noise or the loud Tick from the #5 cylinder.
I've done compression test. 160 psi,,
Leakdown test. No less than 10% on all cylinders
Manifold vacuum is steady at 12 hg.
I've heard of loud valve trains but not breaking the oil metering plates time and again.
My original cam and lifters didn't wipe themselves out. The original cam checked out perfect. I changed it anyway. Didn't want to put a 3rd set of lifters on it. And with a brand new set of Johnson lifters in my hands , I didn't want to risk losing a camshaft in an otherwise NEW 460.
I had this same set up on my previous 460, CamshaftGrind,C9VE-A Heads , with the stock size valves..... it ran for 12 years of off roading, and general fun abuse !!! I'd Rev it until it ran out of power and then shift the C-6 !!!! For YEARS..
That engine Finalybroke a piston. So sad too bad.
This New professional built engine is driving me nutz !!! Lol !!!
My camshaft bearings look perfect. My oil pressure is 68 cold 40 or more hot.on a mechanical gauge.
Has anyone ever heard of this problem ?
Any help would be soooo much appreciated.
I apologize for the very long post...
Thanks everyone! !!!
I had my 460 built by the local speed shop.
69 C9VE-A heads with 2.19/1.76 valves.
Screw in studs 1.75 Inch., guide plates
71 460 block
Trw 19cc dish pistons that were Clearenced ..120 for the larger valves.
Crower flat tappet hydraulic cam , 270/278 .541/563 , new lifters from crower , just the,standard lifters not anti pump or anything special.
Melling HV oil pump
Canton 4x4 Truck rear sump pan
We re- used my Harland sharp roller rockers from the previous 460.and the Trend 8.45 pushrods.
The engine was broken in with just the outer springs wich are ISKY , 8005A.
I'm using steel retainers.
And I'll tell you , the Valvetrain was Noisy during break in. We installed the Inner springs after break in... still noisy...
The shop told me... it will quiet down after it breaks in more....
About 1,500 miles of easy driving , still noisy,and I had adjusted the pre load to just past half turn trying to quiet it down. A LIFTER FAILED.
I Pulled the intake and #8 cyl lifter had a very thin piece of metal sticking out past the pushrod seat.
I inspected ALL 16 lifters... taking notes... almost every Lifter was or had broken the oil metering plate. These were the 4 hole style metering plates that I believe Crower uses in they're lifters.
I sent them back to crower.
They lost them
They refunded my money. I'm not throwing Crower under the bus here. I really like Crower.
Premium lifters were not available at that time (2008) that I could find at the time of the build due to the recession I believe. So by 2010 when the lifters broke... I went searching for Premium lifters... got a Beautiful set from Specialty Engine Components. / Johnson Lifters... works of Art.
Those lasted about another 3000 miles. After installing them they were pretty quiet. Some valvetrain noise.. but one got loud , started ticking.
After calling Specialty Engine Components/Johnson Lifters and performing ALL of they're tests, before pulling the intake off, Including checking for Coil bind, play in the valvetrain, loose guides ect.. they said well , I really don't think it's your lifters making the noise but mark them and send them to us.
What they found was #5 exhaust lifter. Broken oil metering plate. And the number 3 and 4 cylinder had lifters that were bleeding off / wouldn't hold pressure.
The lifter faces looked PERFECT. on all the lifters. According to myself and Joe at Specialty Engine Components.
They sent me a brand new set of 421R lifters, replaced them for free. Now that's a company that stands behind they're products. Just like Crower. Excellent companies.
After having 2 sets of lifters on a Hydraulic flat tappet cam...I decided to purchase another new camshaft from crower(The same Grind) and with the new lifters from SEC/Johnson. .. and just start over.new camshaft and new lifters... 3rd set in thus engine.
At some point during the 2nd set of lifters and original camshaft I tried using Comp Cams1830 XD rocker. And those required longer pushrods than the Harland sharps.
Im pretty sure my valvetrain geometry is correct.
I've set up VTG before.
So , I've installed the New , 2nd crower cam and the New Johnson lifters 421R I believe is the part number , Reduced Travel hydraulic lifters. Had the camshaft put on a cam doctor just to check it.. it was perfect. . Degreed the camshaft in . And broke in the new cam and lifters with just the outer springs. ..plenty of joe gibbs camshaft lube, pre oiled the engine with 10/30 valvoline and a bottle of zinc break in lube... it fired right up ran 25 minutes. Did the beak in twice at 25 minutes.
Then installed my inner springs. Wich are set up at 1.9 closed valve and 1.45 open valve. I forget the pressures at the moment 125/340 I believe.
Well , the valvetrain WAS quiet Initially. in the beginning. .YET after 120 miles cruising between 2400 and 2800 rpm. It developed a tick ftom... the #5 cylinder. Exhaust valve again. And the
here rest of the valvetrain is just too noisy.
If I keep running it.. when will these lifters fail is my gut feeling
I've adjusted these lifters to 1/2 turn, 3/4 turn , 1 full turn and 1 1/4 turn. That Didn't make any difference whatsoever in the Overall Valvetrain Noise or the loud Tick from the #5 cylinder.
I've done compression test. 160 psi,,
Leakdown test. No less than 10% on all cylinders
Manifold vacuum is steady at 12 hg.
I've heard of loud valve trains but not breaking the oil metering plates time and again.
My original cam and lifters didn't wipe themselves out. The original cam checked out perfect. I changed it anyway. Didn't want to put a 3rd set of lifters on it. And with a brand new set of Johnson lifters in my hands , I didn't want to risk losing a camshaft in an otherwise NEW 460.
I had this same set up on my previous 460, CamshaftGrind,C9VE-A Heads , with the stock size valves..... it ran for 12 years of off roading, and general fun abuse !!! I'd Rev it until it ran out of power and then shift the C-6 !!!! For YEARS..
That engine Finalybroke a piston. So sad too bad.
This New professional built engine is driving me nutz !!! Lol !!!
My camshaft bearings look perfect. My oil pressure is 68 cold 40 or more hot.on a mechanical gauge.
Has anyone ever heard of this problem ?
Any help would be soooo much appreciated.
I apologize for the very long post...
Thanks everyone! !!!