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Which is better

5K views 18 replies 7 participants last post by  johnejo 
#1 ·
Hello. I was curious which is the better block to build up, a late 60's to early 70's 429, or a mid 70's 460? I know that they are basically the same block, but I wasn't sure if there was a preference between the two, especially if I were to bore the 429 to a 460+. I know with the 460 I would have to get different heads, intake, etc. in order for it to be the beast I'm envisioning, but I wasn't sure if the 429 would be a better block to build up.

Thank you.
 
#3 ·
If you are planning on a stroker a D9 block is preferred. It would be worth looking around for one but it is not 100% necessary lots of people use whatever they have laying around with no problems. The D9 has longer cylinders, so when the crank is at the bottom there is a little better piston control / stability.
 
#4 ·
I eventually would like to stroke it out to 500+ ci, but that's way down the road due to finances. Here's what I'm looking at.

I currently have a '67 Mustang coupe with a 289/2bbl with a C4. I have a '74 Mercury Cougar XR7 with a 460/4bbl with a C6 (donor car), and I just acquired a '69 Ford LTD with a 429/4bbl with a C6 (donor car). Knowing that there is no replacement for displacement, I'm debating within myself which would be the best way to go. Either I can de-smog the 460 and put the timing chain, intake, heads, etc. from the 429 on it, or I can keep the 429 in tact and eventually stroke it out to 460+ ci. The 460 supposedly has an 8:1 compression with 220HP (SAE net) and 355 ft/lbs torque. The 429 has 11:1 compression, 360HP and 480 ft/lbs torque. Would it still be best to keep the 429 in tact and use it, or take from it to beef up the 460? I'm also assuming I can't use the camshaft or the crank from the 429 and put it into the 460, correct? Two separate animals?

BTW, does anybody know approximately how much it would cost to stroke a 429 to a 460-521+, compared to stroking a 460 to 521+?

Thank you.
 
#5 · (Edited)
All parts will interchange between a 429 and 460. Exactly the same blocks year to year (a 1970 429 is the same block and heads as a 1970 460)......So stroking either will cost exactly the same. If you are starting completely fresh, use the later block for the longer cylinders for your future stroker. I, and many others, use the older blocks on ours with no issues, but why not use your best option since you have it sitting there.....

Lucas
 
#6 ·
Okay. Thank you. So, assuming the camshaft and crank is more aggressive in the pre-emissions 429 than in the mid-70's 460, I can put those into the 460 to help with performance, or would it not be worth it?

Thanks again. BTW, a "D9" is an early 429, right? Not the D9VE blocks, correct????
 
#8 ·
If you put a 429 crankshaft and pistons in a 460, you will end up with a 429. The rods are the same between the two, the bore is the same. The crankshafts and pistons are what is different (again, same year to same year) with a shorter stroke in the 429s. You can turn that 429 into a 460 by swapping in the crank and pistons from a 460. Or, put the earlier model heads off the 429 on the 460, and use the straight up timing set for it. The camshafts are the same spec, they just have the cam timing retarded on the later engines after 1971. The D9 is a later block. The early blocks are C8, C9, or D0VE (basically the same block). By the way for future reference, C8VE, C9VE, and D0VE heads are also essentially all the same (your 429 should have one of those kinds of heads on it)....This is simplified info, as there are differences between the later EFI blocks, pistons, and heads, but I'm just trying to give you info on what you're working with.

Lucas

EDIT: What the Mad Porter said.......
 
#9 ·
Thank you everybody for the information/input! I greatly appreciate it! I'm a bus driver by trade, not a mechanic, but I'm trying to learn what I can to build up my 8th grade (30+ years ago) dream car into the beast I always imagined it being.

Also, 1972Mach1, that was exactly what I was wondering about. Thank you! BTW, the '69 429 does has C8VE-E heads, while the '74 460 has D3VE-A2A heads.

So, now that I know better what I'm working with and what my options are on the limited budget I'm on, if it was up to you guys what would you recommend:

1. Take the 429 heads/intake and timing chain set and put them on the 460, or

2. Put the 460 crank and pistons into the 429.

I'm thinking it would be best, and more feasible, to simply put the 429 heads, etc. on the 460, right??

Thank you guys for your patience with me. Like I said, I'm trying to learn this stuff and sometimes it takes a bit for me to wrap my head around something.
 
#10 ·
Honestly, both options are going to end up exactly the same: A 460 with C8VE-E heads and a straight up timing set. If you are going to keep one block and sell the rest, keep the later block for the longer cylinders. If it was me and I was going to keep both engines, I'd build the earlier block into a 460 now, and save the later block for my stroker build. That way I could keep driving my car as a 460, and be building my 500+ cube engine on the side in my garage as my budget allowed......

Lucas
 
#11 ·
Ideally the best course is to put the 460 crank and pistons in the early block. This way instead of having the pistons .035" to .040" in the hole at TDC due to the taller deck height the pistons would only be .010" to .015" in the hole offering much needed quench and static c/r.

Use the early heads, intake and a NEW EFI timing set.




S
 
#12 · (Edited)
johnejo,provided cylinder bore condition(ie.taper) are both comparable 72mach1 and mad porter's advice is right on the mark it will give you a 460 inch engine with compression ratio significantly higher yet still low enough to tolerate pump gas.This combination can make for a very enjoyable street engine especially with a well chosen cam and you use mad porters recommendations for porting the c8ve heads.Mad porter what is the difference of the EFI timing set over the early set is it a roller type or does it give more favorable timing?Never mind on the question I see you answered in post #7 .
 
#13 ·
Thank you, everyone. You guys have been helping me out a lot. It's been great! I am getting real excited about this. I think I'm going to put the heads and intake off the 429 onto the 460. Main reason, it sounds like it would be the better block when the time comes to stroke it. I am also planning on porting both the heads (intake and exhaust) and the intake manifold.

As for the timing chain set, am I better off using the one off the '69 429, or would a new set from Summit, or similar outlet be better? I don't know if new ones from places like Summit are retarded any or not.

As for the ignition system, the 460 has Duraspark, first generation. If I keep that I know I'll need to adjust it with a recurve, but would I be better off swapping that with a pertronix module and corresponding coil?

Thanks again. :)
 
#14 ·
You will be fine with the timing set from the 69 429. The reason the newer EFI timing set was suggested is because 1) it doesn't have the 8* of retard built into it and 2) it a double roller chain. Comp makes a nice double roller set without the 8* of retard and it also has an integral torington bearing on the top gear. It's kind of pricey but, a nice set.

As far as the ignition you're fine with the Duraspark. Just perform the advance massage Scotty suggested and you'll be fine.

Mike
 
#16 ·
The reason I suggested the EFI timing set is primarily ease of getting one. The later EFI timing set 95 and up has a thicker bottom gear (.060") so I recommend the 88 timing set which is a straight up double roller and is cost effective for those who are not going to degree the cam.

The ones I source (engine pro from EPWI) have an HD "rolon" chain and are made by SA as is the engine pro billet 9 key with torrington thrust bearing. The comp piece is the same set just more expensive...

When switching to a double roller you MUST remove the oil slinger.



S
 
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