Break In - Break Down - 460 Ford Forum
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post #1 of 31 (permalink) Old 03-11-2017, 12:06 PM Thread Starter
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Break In - Break Down

Hi All,
New to the forum. I'll try and keep the relatively brief. I've always had a thing for big American land yachts since I was a kid growing up in England - especially the Lincoln mark IV driven by Frank Cannon. For my birthday about six years ago my wife bought me one. Engine was in dire shape so over time I saved up for a rebuild. I had Thunderworks in S. california do the work as I was living in that area at the time. More years passed and we moved to WA and bought the car and engine with us. I saved more an paid a shop to install the engine. Here's what Thunderworks did on the build:
VALVE JOB
INSTALL & HONE GUIDES, FULL SET: 8
CYL,
CONVERT TO SCREW-IN STUDS/GUIDE
PLT
CYLINDER BORING & HONING:
CAM BEARING INSTALL: BB
MOPAR,
SURFACING (DECKING) V-TYPE
BLOCKS
GRIND TO UNDERSIZE,RAD. OIL
HOLES:
RESIZE ROD HOUSING BORE, BIG
END:
PRESS OFF PISTON,CHK
ALIGN,REHANG:
ASSEMBLE LONG BLOCK: BALANCING:
F-M H582CP030 PISTON-HYPEREUTECTIC
F-M 260-1013 GASKT SET-OVERHAUL
HAS 2M598030 RING SET (MOLY)
CLV CB-818P010 ROD BEARING
CLV MS-1039P010 BEARING SET-MAIN
D-B F-30 BEARING SET-CAM
SII VSS-530 DOM UNIV
SII SEV-2673 FORD 460 PERF INTAKE VALVE.
SII SEV-2672 FORD 460 PERF EXHAUST VALVE.
COM 4834-8 GUIDE PLATE-SET
ARP 135-7101 STUD KIT-ROCKER ARM
PIO DA-4601 HARMONIC BALANCER
PIO FRA-207 FLYWHEEL

Edlebrock Performer intake and carb and I bought a recurved distributor with CDI. I hired a recommmended mobile mechanic a few days ago to do the break in...it ran for about 3 or 4 mins all the while sounding like a chain saw until it stalled puffing smoke out of carb throttle body...pulled off timing cover to reveal a broken chain. Since I have poured waaaaaaaay too much money than is reasonable into this car, I really feel like giving up. I have been told this could have seriously damaged valve train and more. What is the liklihood that the valves will have been undamaged? Any thoughts on why the chain would have broken?
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post #2 of 31 (permalink) Old 03-11-2017, 02:21 PM
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Cool

Since the BBF is an interference engine you will have likely bent some valves.

My greater concern is the why. It takes a pretty severe issue to break a double roller timing set.
Some tear down and forensic investigation is going to be necessary.

Have you had a conversation with the outfit that did your build?


Where at in WA state?
Military?


S

Scotty J. "AKA" The "Mad Porter"
"EMC 2006" 3rd place finisher
Ported BBF iron head specialist & Aluminum heads from all sources.
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See our products in the Vendor for sale section
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post #3 of 31 (permalink) Old 03-11-2017, 03:19 PM
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I didn't see in your list what brand the timing chain set was. This may not be the issue either but I bought a Cloyes double roller set and the bottom sprocket or crank sprocket was made incorrectly. The chain did not seat in the sprocket properly. I was able to send it back and get it replaced and was told that they had several like that. (I bought it from Summit). Anyway, I don't know if you could have even assembled it like it was but if you did I imagine it would have failed pretty quickly.

Also it's hard to tell from the photos but the chain appears to be behind the cam sprocket. Are you able to move the cam in and out? Maybe they forgot to put the plate that holds the cam in the block and the cam walked...

Like Scotty says, it's pretty hard to break a double roller.

Married to TARA so that makes me "TARA-fied"!
_________________________________________
1967 Mustang with 1970 429, C6 & 9"

Last edited by TARA-fied; 03-11-2017 at 03:23 PM. Reason: spelling
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post #4 of 31 (permalink) Old 03-11-2017, 10:13 PM
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No need to give up, maybe try giving Thunderworks a call.
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post #5 of 31 (permalink) Old 03-11-2017, 10:30 PM
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Cool

The pic is not clear but it appears that the cam has walked forward. Lack of thrust plate or it came loose.

Hard to tell. A pic from the side and removal of the top gear would help clarify.



S

Scotty J. "AKA" The "Mad Porter"
"EMC 2006" 3rd place finisher
Ported BBF iron head specialist & Aluminum heads from all sources.
Custom ground cams
See our products in the Vendor for sale section
Customized crate engines
http://R-H-P.biz

"ReinCarNation High Performance" (253)-988-6648


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post #6 of 31 (permalink) Old 03-12-2017, 11:35 AM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Mad Porter View Post
Since the BBF is an interference engine you will have likely bent some valves.

My greater concern is the why. It takes a pretty severe issue to break a double roller timing set.
Some tear down and forensic investigation is going to be necessary.

Have you had a conversation with the outfit that did your build?


Where at in WA state?
Military?


S
Scotty, I plan on calling Thunderworks tomorrow....not that I expect to gain much by it. I live in Tacoma, and unattached to the military. The guy who fired up the engine has me buying another expensive chain and plans on repeating the break in process...aside from the liklihood of bent valves, I'm concerned that this will not address the original fault...just feel like I'm pissing in the wind.
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post #7 of 31 (permalink) Old 03-12-2017, 11:41 AM Thread Starter
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I will try and remove top gear and take more pictures. I know its a cliche to talk about cars causing friction with our spouses, but my suggestion over breakfast that I break out the plastic for yet more parts for this car was not well received. While I can work my way around an engine fairly well I lack the experience and confidence to tackle the internals myself.
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post #8 of 31 (permalink) Old 03-12-2017, 11:51 AM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TARA-fied View Post
I didn't see in your list what brand the timing chain set was.

Like Scotty says, it's pretty hard to break a double roller.
It was a long time ago, but I'm almost certain it was a Cloyes.... I'm intrigued by the idea that plate is loose...We fit an Edlebrock fuel pump but couldnt get eccentric to engage pump arm...I switched it out for new OEM and it still took some time to gain pressure (used a guage)...Oh we did use an oil priming tool prior to break in too.
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post #9 of 31 (permalink) Old 03-12-2017, 01:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Deltic View Post
I will try and remove top gear and take more pictures. I know its a cliche to talk about cars causing friction with our spouses, but my suggestion over breakfast that I break out the plastic for yet more parts for this car was not well received. While I can work my way around an engine fairly well I lack the experience and confidence to tackle the internals myself.
I can understand the frustration of throwing money at it but right now you have a large pile of parts that may be worth less than your investment. Maybe she can appreciate that if you invest some more it will be a running car you can enjoy or sell.
Hang in there

Married to TARA so that makes me "TARA-fied"!
_________________________________________
1967 Mustang with 1970 429, C6 & 9"
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post #10 of 31 (permalink) Old 03-12-2017, 03:55 PM
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Cool

Quote:
Originally Posted by Deltic View Post
Scotty, I plan on calling Thunderworks tomorrow....not that I expect to gain much by it. I live in Tacoma, and unattached to the military. The guy who fired up the engine has me buying another expensive chain and plans on repeating the break in process...aside from the liklihood of bent valves, I'm concerned that this will not address the original fault...just feel like I'm pissing in the wind.

I and my shop are in Tacoma as well. Throwing a timing set in it and attempting to start it again when the valves are almost certainly bent is an invitation for a whole bunch of trouble. Who is doing this? Shop? Friend?

Before you do ANYTHING remove the timing set and take pics of the thrust retainer. Finding out what caused this is crucial.

I and my shop located in Tacoma as well. You may check our website and FB pages out if you wish to establish credibility.



S

Scotty J. "AKA" The "Mad Porter"
"EMC 2006" 3rd place finisher
Ported BBF iron head specialist & Aluminum heads from all sources.
Custom ground cams
See our products in the Vendor for sale section
Customized crate engines
http://R-H-P.biz

"ReinCarNation High Performance" (253)-988-6648


http://www.facebook.com/SMJRHP#!/SMJRHP
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post #11 of 31 (permalink) Old 03-12-2017, 04:33 PM Thread Starter
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I and my shop are in Tacoma as well.

Before you do ANYTHING remove the timing set and take pics of the thrust retainer. Finding out what caused this is crucial.

I and my shop located in Tacoma as well.

S
Wish I'd known about you before I paid Bristows many thousands to drop the engine back in (without even starting it). The guy who's been working up my driveway owned several auto shops back in the day...beyond that I can only go on my conversations with him and he seems knowledgable - That being said there is no way in hell I'm letting him bolt on another timing chain and just firing it up again. I'll take the additional pictures as you advise and I'm sure I'll be in touch...great knowing you are in my hometown.
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post #12 of 31 (permalink) Old 03-13-2017, 01:30 PM
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Do whatever you have to do to get your car over to Scotty's shop. You're extremely lucky to have one of the best at the Ford big block right in your hometown..... To take it anywhere else living in Tacoma just doesn't make any sense. Just my, and probably every other forum member's, 2 cents. Good luck and don't lose faith. You'll get there.

Lucas
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post #13 of 31 (permalink) Old 03-13-2017, 02:32 PM
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If you do decide the give the original builder another chance - at a minimum if/when you put in a new timing Chain/Gear set, be sure to remove the spark plugs and rotate the engine by hand first. Maybe something bent, maybe something that's easy/cheap to fix. But don't make matters worse trying to start the engine without checking it over good first. A bend valve is easier to fix than a hole in the piston.
Good luck
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post #14 of 31 (permalink) Old 03-18-2017, 08:10 PM
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The cause of the failure was a piece of the failed fuel pump lever finding its way between the timing chain and lower gear.

This is a fuel pump failure issue or install issue. It is not in my opinion anything to do with the original engine builder which put together a nice package.

As expected at least one valve is bent.

S
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post #15 of 31 (permalink) Old 03-18-2017, 10:57 PM
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wow, that's wild. I wouldn't have guessed that could even happen!

Married to TARA so that makes me "TARA-fied"!
_________________________________________
1967 Mustang with 1970 429, C6 & 9"
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