Very tight budget build - 460 Ford Forum
Engine Tech A place to discuss all 385-series engine tech and theory.

User Tag List

 2Likes
  • 1 Post By DanE
  • 1 Post By The Mad Porter
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
post #1 of 15 (permalink) Old 04-19-2017, 06:16 PM Thread Starter
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2017
Posts: 8
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3 Post(s)
 
Very tight budget build

Hey guys,

I am building a 460 to throw into a new crown vic for the heck of it. I am looking to keep this on a super tight budget but would like to get near 350hp at the crank. Here is my plan:

Picked up a 460 out of a '71 Mark III with c9ve heads. Stock rebuild on the bottom end, maybe better bolts. Id like to go with an performer rpm intake and 750cfm carb.

What I don't know enough about is the heads, I will be porting them but I'm not sure what to do with the rockers/springs. I really would like to avoid spending the $500 on a cam+matching springs and hardware from comp cams.

So my question is, what cam would work with stock c9ve springs and would I even get close to 350 or am I dreaming? Do I need to shave a bit off the head to up compression? Pistons will be stock.

I searched the forums but to no avail.
Bigblockpanther is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 15 (permalink) Old 04-19-2017, 09:27 PM
Super Moderator
 
MrScharfenberger's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Georgetown Indiana
Posts: 4,735
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 126 Post(s)
 
You can get 350 flywheel horse power easily.

Take a look at this thread. It has the blueprints you need.

460 Horsepower Chart (revised 1/24/09)

Send Questions To: Chris@MrScharfenberger.com
MrScharfenberger is offline  
post #3 of 15 (permalink) Old 04-19-2017, 09:41 PM Thread Starter
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2017
Posts: 8
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3 Post(s)
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by MrScharfenberger View Post
You can get 350 flywheel horse power easily.

Take a look at this thread. It has the blueprints you need.

460 Horsepower Chart (revised 1/24/09)

Yeah, I was looking at that. When they say stock rockers is it implying stock springs as well? Or is it implying that springs matching the cam thats suggested should be used as well?
Bigblockpanther is offline  
 
post #4 of 15 (permalink) Old 04-19-2017, 09:45 PM
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Posts: 453
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 31 Post(s)
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bigblockpanther View Post
Hey guys,

I am building a 460 to throw into a new crown vic for the heck of it. I am looking to keep this on a super tight budget but would like to get near 350hp at the crank. Here is my plan:

Picked up a 460 out of a '71 Mark III with c9ve heads. Stock rebuild on the bottom end, maybe better bolts. Id like to go with an performer rpm intake and 750cfm carb.

What I don't know enough about is the heads, I will be porting them but I'm not sure what to do with the rockers/springs. I really would like to avoid spending the $500 on a cam+matching springs and hardware from comp cams.

So my question is, what cam would work with stock c9ve springs and would I even get close to 350 or am I dreaming? Do I need to shave a bit off the head to up compression? Pistons will be stock.

I searched the forums but to no avail.

Seeing as how an original engine from a 71 Mark III was rated at 365 HP and had 10.5 to 1 compression, and you are on a tight budget, spend your money on machine work.

As to porting the heads, do your porting within 1 1/2" of the valves along with a proper valve job.

Deck the block (aim for a .040" quench) and set all clearances in the engine for its intended usage. Use all factory bolts. Install headers and a free flow exhaust. Put a proper curve in the distributor and tune the carb. Having done this, that engine will surprise you.

When the dust has settled from the conversion and you budget has improved, replace the carb, intake, and a custom cam.

Again, that stock engine, set up properly, will run strong.
BOSS 429 likes this.

Last edited by DanE; 04-19-2017 at 10:01 PM.
DanE is offline  
post #5 of 15 (permalink) Old 04-19-2017, 10:41 PM Thread Starter
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2017
Posts: 8
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3 Post(s)
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by DanE View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bigblockpanther View Post
Hey guys,

I am building a 460 to throw into a new crown vic for the heck of it. I am looking to keep this on a super tight budget but would like to get near 350hp at the crank. Here is my plan:

Picked up a 460 out of a '71 Mark III with c9ve heads. Stock rebuild on the bottom end, maybe better bolts. Id like to go with an performer rpm intake and 750cfm carb.

What I don't know enough about is the heads, I will be porting them but I'm not sure what to do with the rockers/springs. I really would like to avoid spending the $500 on a cam+matching springs and hardware from comp cams.

So my question is, what cam would work with stock c9ve springs and would I even get close to 350 or am I dreaming? Do I need to shave a bit off the head to up compression? Pistons will be stock.

I searched the forums but to no avail.

Seeing as how an original engine from a 71 Mark III was rated at 365 HP and had 10.5 to 1 compression, and you are on a tight budget, spend your money on machine work.

As to porting the heads, do your porting within 1 1/2" of the valves along with a proper valve job.

Deck the block (aim for a .040" quench) and set all clearances in the engine for its intended usage.
By setting the clearances you mean bearing clearances in the bottom end, correct?

Would a machine shop need the head gasket and head to deck the block to 40 thou quench height?
Bigblockpanther is offline  
post #6 of 15 (permalink) Old 04-20-2017, 10:48 AM Thread Starter
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2017
Posts: 8
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3 Post(s)
 
And wouldn't decking the block raise compression even more? Id like to stick with 91 octane as thats the highest i have available.
Bigblockpanther is offline  
post #7 of 15 (permalink) Old 04-20-2017, 12:56 PM
Senior Member
 
4604X4's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Orlando Florida
Posts: 401
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 26 Post(s)
 
What Is The Ideal Quench Height? - Hot Rod Network

*
1982 F-250 XLT 4x4, 5800lbs, C6-BW1345, 466 cid, 9.5:1, TFS290 PowerPort heads, Crane Hyd Roller Cam (278/286 adv., 216/224 @.050), Edelbrock Performer, Hedman headers, QFT HR-780VS, MSD6A and Billet dist., NOS Cheater system, 4.56 gearing, 7" lift, 37" tires.
4604X4 is online now  
post #8 of 15 (permalink) Old 04-20-2017, 02:37 PM Thread Starter
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2017
Posts: 8
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3 Post(s)
 
yeah I read about quench heights but isn't decking the block going to raise compression on an already high compression engine?
Bigblockpanther is offline  
post #9 of 15 (permalink) Old 04-20-2017, 04:00 PM
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Posts: 453
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 31 Post(s)
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bigblockpanther View Post
yeah I read about quench heights but isn't decking the block going to raise compression on an already high compression engine?
You can lead a horse to water............................................. .....
DanE is offline  
post #10 of 15 (permalink) Old 04-20-2017, 04:14 PM
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: CT
Posts: 323
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 8 Post(s)
 
You want the machinist to mill the deck to achieve "zero" deck meaning the piston is as close to "flush" as possible with the top of the block. Use a .039-.041 compressed head gasket and your quench height is set optimally for a street build. The slight increase in static compression ratio is more than offset by establishing the proper quench height as far as detonation resistance is concerned.

1973 Mustang Convertible
460 D0VE-C Heads w/CJ size valves, Lunati voodoo 227/233 cam, Edelbrock performer rpm manifold, FPA headers, Holley 950 HP carb, C6 w/2500 stall converter, 3.50 trac lock
TommyK is online now  
post #11 of 15 (permalink) Old 04-20-2017, 06:56 PM Thread Starter
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2017
Posts: 8
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3 Post(s)
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by TommyK View Post
You want the machinist to mill the deck to achieve "zero" deck meaning the piston is as close to "flush" as possible with the top of the block. Use a .039-.041 compressed head gasket and your quench height is set optimally for a street build. The slight increase in static compression ratio is more than offset by establishing the proper quench height as far as detonation resistance is concerned.
Got it, thanks!
Bigblockpanther is offline  
post #12 of 15 (permalink) Old 04-20-2017, 08:38 PM
Senior Member
 
The Mad Porter's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Tacoma, WA.
Posts: 7,383
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 192 Post(s)
 
Cool

Remember that the original early 460 pistons had a smallish 11 cc dish and a 1.760" compression height sitting at .010" below deck offering approximately 10.5 to 1 static c/r. In 1971 ford raised the deck from 10.300" to 10.310" leaving the pistons another .010" down for .020" below deck.

If you use builder style replacement pistons like the H418CP with the 22 to 23 cc dish you will have to deck the never decked block to 10.282 to achieve 0 deck height. With a 75 cc chamber your static c/r will be 9.66 to 1. With a 72 cc chamber 9 9 to 1 static.

If you intend on keeping the stock cam I would not deck the heads at all to keep static c/r compatible with the short cam timing. We offer a custom ground hydraulic cam and lifter kit with Drop in single springs, retainers and locks for $369.95 plus shipping so there is no reason to keep the oem cam and oem springs which were inadequate for even the stock cam imo.

As strong as those early engines were on good 96 octane premium fuel the actual output with manifolds, dual exhaust, 600 cfm 4300 carb and as delivered ignition curve was more on the order of 325 hp. The advertised numbers were sae gross hp with optimized exhaust and ignition timing.

Headers and a properly curved distributor might get you close especially if you clean up the cylinder head ports...

The performer intake is more appropriate for your intended use and hood clearance.


We build a 460 crate engine with those H418 cp builder pistons, NOS F6TE truck rods, budget ported D0VEs, PRW roller rockers, performer intake, 213/227 custom voodoo cam, 750 carb, properly curved distributor with 9.6 to 1 static c/r that makes 440 hp with the jomar power cone spacer. Use it as a template to do your build.

This same combo with out ported heads drops to about 360 hp give or take with headers.



S
ParaPsy likes this.

Scotty J. "AKA" The "Mad Porter"
"EMC 2006" 3rd place finisher
Ported BBF iron head specialist & Aluminum heads from all sources.
Custom ground cams
See our products in the Vendor for sale section
Customized crate engines
http://R-H-P.biz

"ReinCarNation High Performance" (253)-988-6648


http://www.facebook.com/SMJRHP#!/SMJRHP

Last edited by The Mad Porter; 04-20-2017 at 08:40 PM.
The Mad Porter is offline  
post #13 of 15 (permalink) Old 04-20-2017, 10:20 PM Thread Starter
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2017
Posts: 8
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3 Post(s)
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Mad Porter View Post
Remember that the original early 460 pistons had a smallish 11 cc dish and a 1.760" compression height sitting at .010" below deck offering approximately 10.5 to 1 static c/r. In 1971 ford raised the deck from 10.300" to 10.310" leaving the pistons another .010" down for .020" below deck.

If you use builder style replacement pistons like the H418CP with the 22 to 23 cc dish you will have to deck the never decked block to 10.282 to achieve 0 deck height. With a 75 cc chamber your static c/r will be 9.66 to 1. With a 72 cc chamber 9 9 to 1 static.

If you intend on keeping the stock cam I would not deck the heads at all to keep static c/r compatible with the short cam timing. We offer a custom ground hydraulic cam and lifter kit with Drop in single springs, retainers and locks for $369.95 plus shipping so there is no reason to keep the oem cam and oem springs which were inadequate for even the stock cam imo.

As strong as those early engines were on good 96 octane premium fuel the actual output with manifolds, dual exhaust, 600 cfm 4300 carb and as delivered ignition curve was more on the order of 325 hp. The advertised numbers were sae gross hp with optimized exhaust and ignition timing.

Headers and a properly curved distributor might get you close especially if you clean up the cylinder head ports...

The performer intake is more appropriate for your intended use and hood clearance.


We build a 460 crate engine with those H418 cp builder pistons, NOS F6TE truck rods, budget ported D0VEs, PRW roller rockers, performer intake, 213/227 custom voodoo cam, 750 carb, properly curved distributor with 9.6 to 1 static c/r that makes 440 hp with the jomar power cone spacer. Use it as a template to do your build.

This same combo with out ported heads drops to about 360 hp give or take with headers.



S
Lots of great info, really appreciate it!

Would it work well to get your cam/spring kit, port the heads, new intake and headers and leave the block and rods stock?
Bigblockpanther is offline  
post #14 of 15 (permalink) Old 04-20-2017, 10:39 PM
Senior Member
 
The Mad Porter's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Tacoma, WA.
Posts: 7,383
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 192 Post(s)
 
Cool

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bigblockpanther View Post
Lots of great info, really appreciate it!

Would it work well to get your cam/spring kit, port the heads, new intake and headers and leave the block and rods stock?
If the bottom end is still oem the static c/r will be too high for the combo I mentioned and the next two steps up being 460 hp and 500 hp with rpm intake.

You need to moderate static c/r, tighten quench and have the proper cam ground to run on pump premium.



S

Scotty J. "AKA" The "Mad Porter"
"EMC 2006" 3rd place finisher
Ported BBF iron head specialist & Aluminum heads from all sources.
Custom ground cams
See our products in the Vendor for sale section
Customized crate engines
http://R-H-P.biz

"ReinCarNation High Performance" (253)-988-6648


http://www.facebook.com/SMJRHP#!/SMJRHP
The Mad Porter is offline  
post #15 of 15 (permalink) Old 04-20-2017, 11:00 PM Thread Starter
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2017
Posts: 8
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3 Post(s)
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Mad Porter View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bigblockpanther View Post
Lots of great info, really appreciate it!

Would it work well to get your cam/spring kit, port the heads, new intake and headers and leave the block and rods stock?
If the bottom end is still oem the static c/r will be too high for the combo I mentioned and the next two steps up being 460 hp and 500 hp with rpm intake.

You need to moderate static c/r, tighten quench and have the proper cam ground to run on pump premium.



S
So it sounds like the best budget option would be to port heads, headers, and properly set the timing/advance. And cam/decking/pistons/intake would be the next step up.

Would the performer intake help at all without an upgraded cam?
Bigblockpanther is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the 460 Ford Forum forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.

User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in









Human Verification

In order to verify that you are a human and not a spam bot, please enter the answer into the following box below based on the instructions contained in the graphic.



Thread Tools Search this Thread
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes
Linear Mode Linear Mode



Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome