Lesson Learned - Block Filler - 460 Ford Forum
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post #1 of 30 (permalink) Old 06-05-2008, 06:33 PM Thread Starter
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Lesson Learned - Block Filler

well, my buddy had a D1VE A2A whatever 2 bolt main block and took it 110 over which left about 110 on the Cylinder walls, he poured the block with filler and and after about 6 passes it had a split in the cylinder--so he machined that cylinder out and pressed asleeve in it and after 4 runs it spit the sleeve. The block filler stuff is junk, after the motor got hot the filler broke away from the cylnders and did nothing but add weight to the block. Is there anything out there anybody knows about besides block filler that actually works????? i think maybe a good heat resistant 2 part epoxy?

thanks in advance

70' Maverick , 557 A-Head 8.90's...1969 #MATCHING MACH1 428 CJ RESTORED 1 of 1....1970 HEMI CHALLANGER
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post #2 of 30 (permalink) Old 06-05-2008, 06:57 PM
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Yes I know a Ford Motorsport A-460 or a IDT Eliminator block will hold up much better to that bore without filler then a Stock car block will with filler.





Dan

www.shazampulling.com

The older I get the less I seem to know.
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post #3 of 30 (permalink) Old 06-05-2008, 07:35 PM
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I was thinking the same thing..................

69 Grande'
P51 headed 563
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post #4 of 30 (permalink) Old 06-05-2008, 11:51 PM Thread Starter
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i could have went to the little kids school for those replys.

you guys ever here of experimenting, running on the ragged edge, trying new things to make builds work better. i thought thats what hot rodding was all about. Hell, anybody can go out and buy a aftermarket block thats elementry, the question was block filler, do you know anykind of block filler that works well without breaking loose from the metal, the question was in referance to block filler--epoxy ect: If you don't have an answer or you have NO experiance with block filler (which is evident) keep your smartass answers to yourselves and use the scroll button. thats what thats for when you don't have a clue!

70' Maverick , 557 A-Head 8.90's...1969 #MATCHING MACH1 428 CJ RESTORED 1 of 1....1970 HEMI CHALLANGER
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post #5 of 30 (permalink) Old 06-05-2008, 11:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HEMI-HUNTER
i could have went to the little kids school for those replys.

you guys ever here of experimenting, running on the ragged edge, trying new things to make builds work better. i thought thats what hot rodding was all about. Hell, anybody can go out and buy a aftermarket block thats elementry, the question was block filler, do you know anykind of block filler that works well without breaking loose from the metal, the question was in referance to block filler--epoxy ect: If you don't have an answer or you have NO experiance with block filler (which is evident) keep your smartass answers to yourselves and use the scroll button. thats what thats for when you don't have a clue!
Good to see you have money to burn, not everyone has a bottomless wallet so they stick to whats tried and true and recommend the same.
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post #6 of 30 (permalink) Old 06-06-2008, 12:02 AM
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Re: Lesson Learned - Block Filler

Quote:
Originally Posted by HEMI-HUNTER
well, my buddy had a D1VE A2A whatever 2 bolt main block and took it 110 over which left about 110 on the Cylinder walls, he poured the block with filler and and after about 6 passes it had a split in the cylinder--so he machined that cylinder out and pressed asleeve in it and after 4 runs it spit the sleeve. The block filler stuff is junk, after the motor got hot the filler broke away from the cylnders and did nothing but add weight to the block. Is there anything out there anybody knows about besides block filler that actually works????? i think maybe a good heat resistant 2 part epoxy?

thanks in advance

First off all you NEVER bore the block and then pour it with filler!!!!!!!!
the filler will distort the cylinders if you do it that way. You pour the filler first and let it set for several days to set up, then bore the block as needed checking it constantly...


Thats kind of like building a house and after it is done then pour the foundation under it... :roll: and then saying the concrete was junk... :shock:


Randy
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post #7 of 30 (permalink) Old 06-06-2008, 07:27 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HEMI-HUNTER
i could have went to the little kids school for those replys.

you guys ever here of experimenting, running on the ragged edge, trying new things to make builds work better. i thought thats what hot rodding was all about. Hell, anybody can go out and buy a aftermarket block thats elementry, the question was block filler, do you know anykind of block filler that works well without breaking loose from the metal, the question was in referance to block filler--epoxy ect: If you don't have an answer or you have NO experiance with block filler (which is evident) keep your smartass answers to yourselves and use the scroll button. thats what thats for when you don't have a clue!
Well Hemi hunter . I ran block filler in 7 of the last 9 engines I built. I always used the Moroso Grout type block filler .. One block did split the cylinder and I had it sleeved .. I'm still using it as my 532 back up motor.

Now as for your running on the ragged edge statement.

After pissing away close to $100,000 on motors over the last 10 years I found going the little kids school to be less expensive. Get your self something that isn't going to blow up and you'll save money in the long run. If your planing on building something that's going to put out more then 650 Horse go aftermarket block and you don't have to worry about making a pile of junk because you twisted the block and it spun your bearings or crack a cylinder due to the linear stress put on the block when you launch the car.

And I did answer your first question the best I could .

"Is there anything out there anybody knows about besides block filler that actually works????? "


Have a good day .



Dan

www.shazampulling.com

The older I get the less I seem to know.
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post #8 of 30 (permalink) Old 06-06-2008, 11:10 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HEMI-HUNTER
i could have went to the little kids school for those replys.

you guys ever here of experimenting, running on the ragged edge, trying new things to make builds work better. i thought thats what hot rodding was all about. Hell, anybody can go out and buy a aftermarket block thats elementry, the question was block filler, do you know anykind of block filler that works well without breaking loose from the metal, the question was in referance to block filler--epoxy ect: If you don't have an answer or you have NO experiance with block filler (which is evident) keep your smartass answers to yourselves and use the scroll button. thats what thats for when you don't have a clue!

i dont think they were being a smart -*** dude !!! they were just giving an opinion---

know besides all of that i have a block with a block filler in it and it seems like the material is coming apart ??? almost like a fiberglass material--- i would never use again to fill a block...

so back to Jon and Trunkpulers OPINION what is the cost diff on average between the 2 ???
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post #9 of 30 (permalink) Old 06-06-2008, 11:58 AM
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Considering I have used block filler with great success in the past I would not consider my answer as being a smart ***. Now boring the cylinders paper thin and then blaming the filler for the stupid dumbass mistake I would say is pretty ironic.

Maybe you could coax procomp into making a cheap throw away block for people like yourself.

650 hp pretty ragged edge............

69 Grande'
P51 headed 563
3070#'s
5.15 @ 134.89
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post #10 of 30 (permalink) Old 06-06-2008, 01:22 PM
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Hemi-Hunter

I have used "hard-Block" on several BBC builds and never had a problem on a .100 over 454 blocks and there not near as safe as a BBF IMO.

1. Pretty important to get an even fill, sound like to me you didn't get a good fill, you may have rushed the whole process and the machine work is last.

2. Agitate it very very good as you fill it.

( I welded a 3/8 bolt to an air-hammer chisel, screwed it into a tranny bolt hole and jam nutted it tight and put the air-chisel while I filled the block)

3. You need to let the block "rest" and set a couple weeks min before you take it in and have the machine work done. Many builders would like to see a month

" A - Head Groupie"
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post #11 of 30 (permalink) Old 06-06-2008, 06:45 PM
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I'd have to agree, I've used Hardblok brand filler, with no problem. Was the stuff you used namebrand? Did it get mixed with as little water as possible? Did air bubbles get worked out? Let it harden long enough before machining or putting into service?
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post #12 of 30 (permalink) Old 06-07-2008, 12:31 PM
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Isn't it funny that we're always bragging about how superior the bbf block is compared to the other brands, yet at the same time we say 650hp is the safe threshhold? Then you do some looking in the engine buildups and see that several reputable builders are making 800+ hp with oem blocks and they're not saying " this is a good build, but we sure hope the block stays together". I think alot of it goes back to the old saying " some people can break a cannon ball in a sandbox with there bare hands". If I had the extra 2600$+ I too would use an aftermarket block.
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post #13 of 30 (permalink) Old 06-07-2008, 01:40 PM
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my 650 ragged edge was a smart assed remark, oh course you can go higher and the difference in if it lives or dies is the prep and tune up etc.

I have used the Childes and Albert block filler, its hard to get but its just what we have had good success with.

69 Grande'
P51 headed 563
3070#'s
5.15 @ 134.89
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post #14 of 30 (permalink) Old 06-07-2008, 01:56 PM
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Quote:
i could have went to the little kids school for those replys.

you guys ever here of experimenting, running on the ragged edge, trying new things to make builds work better. i thought thats what hot rodding was all about. Hell, anybody can go out and buy a aftermarket block thats elementry, the question was block filler, do you know anykind of block filler that works well without breaking loose from the metal, the question was in referance to block filler--epoxy ect: If you don't have an answer or you have NO experiance with block filler (which is evident) keep your smartass answers to yourselves and use the scroll button. thats what thats for when you don't have a clue!
If you don't want an answer, don't ask the question. And damn sure don't get pissy when a bunch of people who've been there and done that tell you something you don't want to hear.

Brad
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post #15 of 30 (permalink) Old 06-07-2008, 03:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hookedonpullin
Isn't it funny that we're always bragging about how superior the bbf block is compared to the other brands, yet at the same time we say 650hp is the safe threshhold? Then you do some looking in the engine buildups and see that several reputable builders are making 800+ hp with oem blocks and they're not saying " this is a good build, but we sure hope the block stays together". I think alot of it goes back to the old saying " some people can break a cannon ball in a sandbox with there bare hands". If I had the extra 2600$+ I too would use an aftermarket block.
Coming on this site over a year ago with NO BBF experience and plenty off BBC Chevy I would have never believed that a OEM BBF would be safe with a 4.440-4.500 bore and 4,500 crank and the block be able to live more than hard season of racing.

From past experience I can tell you a BBC 454 block won't go bigger than 4.350 bore 4.300 stroke and live much more than a hard season of racing before your re-blocking. If your doing 520's inches in a OEM BBC your living life dangerously IMO.

I think if I were to do another BBF build and use an Oem block and wanted to maintain a wet block. I would consider staying with a 4.440 bore and a 4.500 crank and splayed caps. I would stay around 14-1 comp on gas and use an A-460 head w/2.300 valve and a dominator and thatís about the limit that I think push the OEM block if I expected a reasonable amount of reliability and maintain a safe feeling that I was in the green.

" A - Head Groupie"
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