C-6 Transmission I.D. and rebuild questions.(maybe sticky?) - 460 Ford Forum
General Tech A place to discuss general tech regarding chassis, transmission, tires, suspension, non-460, etc

User Tag List

 1Likes
Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
post #1 of 181 (permalink) Old 09-24-2007, 12:09 AM Thread Starter
Senior Member
 
Gearhead559's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Rob from OHIO!
Posts: 1,941
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
 
Send a message via AIM to Gearhead559 Send a message via Yahoo to Gearhead559
C-6 Transmission I.D. and rebuild questions.(maybe sticky?)

this top post will get added to as the more info i come across, with internal mods, part numbers and so on. Enjoy.

long tail , short tail...

where too look up years and what not?

I wanna lay down some base idea's on this transmission and its parts and what we have done too make them work!

I have two different C-6 tranmissions sitting here. One seem to have a longer extension housing, and the odd side mount setup.

Ill post some pics of both tranmission's

transmissions


tails


tail one


tail 2


i just too make sure i can swap internal's and output shaft's and housings

heres a good readup on rollerizing a C-6
Rollerizing a C6

and a build up on a Big C-6 with trans brake or manual valve body. (fixxed)
C6 trans build for transbrake or manual valvebody

5 clutch drum setup with pics and info (thanks greg)
C6 drum modified for 5 clutches ,Also cpl questions on setup

TCI trans brake fix pre frank!
If it's a TCI I have a fix for it as the problem is the 2 checkball slots in the lower half of the valvebody are too large and too long and the checkball cannot find there seats in the spacer plate. there should be 2- 1/4" steel checkball ,one in each slot . you need to fill these slots with JB WEld or another good 2 part epoxy , then using the spacer plate as a pattern mark the 4 checkball seats in the epoxy - using a 9/32" drill bit drill 4 holes in the epoxy approximately 9/32" deep at the 4 marked spots, then using the drillbit router a new checkball slot in the epoxy , make sure the checkballs will roll free from one end to the other in both slots - install the spacerplate and check to make sure the checkballs will roll from one end of the slot to the other and not over shoot there intended seat, the holes in the spacerplate should be 7/32" for the High checkball and 5/32" for the low checkball . In between the lower half of the valvebody and the spacerplate there should be a gasket ,if there is not make one out of .005" gasket material, Torque all Valvebody bolts to 55 inch/lb's
Frank
manual and trans brake for tci info!
Okay now , Who Manual as if it's a Tci for the Manual you need to modify the 2nd gear servo and plug the servo vent and for the TCI brake VB your have to run the servo unmodified and the vent hole open


im putting this here, just incase someone dont click the link and all the info is in one thread!
C6 trans build for transbrake or manual valvebody
This is what I do aC-6 build and it seems to give good durability

- Low /reverse Clutch
- piston use the old style with the 24 return springs and the check ball , locate check ball at 12 o'clock (these springs have a free length of 1.070" as opposed to the high/reverse free length of 1.400"
- fibre's & steels , I prefer red alto's and kolenes but the stock clutches hold up well, If your trans has a waveplate discard it . I like to have a min of 5 fibres and steels set at .060 clearance ( .012 per fibre and steel) . the pressure plate may need a step machined in the out edge twice as thick as the snapring to aid in installation of the snapring, use a magnet base dail indicator mounted to the rear sprag race to check clearance- air check
- rear planetary hub use the one with the 1" long splines Part# for the hub F81Z-7D164-AA
- rear planetary- preferred is a 4 pinion
- Forward clutch - prefer red alto's and kolenes,and use the new style drum (new style has a wave plate, 5 & 5 here plus the wave plate .040-.050 clearance, the pressure may need a step machined in it for the snapring or you can use a second internal pressure plate as the outer , make sure you have the right forward ringgear assemble . the new style drum has a .400 deep torrington pocket were as the old style only had a .330 deep pocket and the ringgear asembles are different the new style has longer splines on the outside and the hub is different also. a missmatch of parts here will raise havoc with end play , the planetary's are the same 3 pinion, the reason for using the wave in the forward is that with racing line pressures and no waveplate it tends to snap the end of the drum off at the snapring groove after a period of time .In my max effort trannies I leave out the wave and contend with the drum breaking if and when it happens , ussally I just put an new drum in each year

2nd gear - "R" servo and an "E" lever and the toughest spring I have , Band I been getting good service out of the 2 1/2 " flex band kevlar lined

- High/reverse drum , 5 clutch drum preferred, but the stock 3 clutch drum can give good service if modified by cutting a new snap ring groove . there is 2 alternatives here depending on which drum you have as some drums have a longer spline than others the ones with the long spline an new 1/8" groove is to be machined in the drum at .565 from the bottom of the original to the top of the new groove this will allow you to use one of the stock selective snap rings to achieve a clearance of of .012 - .013 per fibre & steel and using alto pt# 026757HP kit you can install 6 fibre's and 6 steels witha clearance of .072-.078 (note Alto's recommended clearance with this kit is way to tight) with the shorter splined drum you machine a new snap ring 11/8" groove in at .400 up from 5the bottom of the original groove to the top of the new groove and then step cut the pressure plate approx .165 " to allow snap ring installation and removal. With this mod the drum will hold 5 x 5 standard red alto's and kolene steels . another drum mod to do is drill a series of 1/8" holes into the perimeter of the drum in a zig-zag pattern were the steels engage in the drum , this ads in letting the oil out of the drum a cools the clutches by letting more oil flow through between the clutches , also fill all spring pockets in the piston with springs.
-pump sealing rings , get and use teflon sealing rings as they last a lot longer than the cast rings and they do not wear the drum
- set trans end play at .020-.045"
- and adjust the band , tighten to 120 inlbs and back of 1 1/2 turns and tighten lock nut


any Questions email me at fmerkl@eidnet.org or call 403-793-5412




so how do we id them? so i can clean them off and check?

are there any case mods? I plan on doing this over winter. so i can be ready come next year! i do have a c-4 sitting here and the input adapter. but its seems it take a lot more money to build the c-4 too take the abuse i wanna put thru it. and the internals seem to be smaller and light, but just dont look as strong!IMO.

reading will best serve you here. clicking the links and reading this thread can help on tons of stuff.
460galaxieaust likes this.

The heartbeat stops here!
I bleed blue oval blue, and **** hugger orange!
www.gearheadzautomotive.com
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y19...sigpiccopy.jpg

Last edited by Gearhead559; 03-19-2009 at 10:27 PM.
Gearhead559 is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 181 (permalink) Old 09-24-2007, 02:03 AM Thread Starter
Senior Member
 
Gearhead559's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Rob from OHIO!
Posts: 1,941
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
 
Send a message via AIM to Gearhead559 Send a message via Yahoo to Gearhead559



Quote:
Originally Posted by Frank Merkl View Post
Okay Guy's finally got around to posting pic's of how to check clutch pack clearances

Checking low/reverse min .060 with 5 clutches max.080

Checking High/reverse .012-.014 per clutch and steel ie;5clutches .060-.070 , checking using stator support to pressure check

forward clutch ,checking using stator support for pressure checking .040-.050 with 4 clutches and wave installed or .050-.060 5 clutches and NO wave plate

Checking for clearance on the high/reverse clutch pack for the forward drum there must be clearance at the x for the forward drum , CJ drum shown that has had a new snapring groove so it will hold 6 standard clutches and steels, pressure plate has been step cut for clearance, notice identification groove in drive lugs

checking stack height on forward planetary for forward drum , on a drum with .330 pocket measurement should be .335-.345. on a newwer .400 pocket drum .405-.415

new style .400 pocket left, right old style .330 pocket stack height notice ident ridge at X
Frank
if I have you totally confused just call me 403-793-5412

I guess I should add when using the stator support for pressure checking clearances use your old cast sealing rings and when you assemble the trans using teflon sealing rings pack the sealing ring grooves first with Vasoline then put the teflons in the grooves as in will hold the teflons in the bottom of the groove . Also if you are just using a shift kit in your C6 Don't use the teflon sealing rings use the stock cast ones as most shift kits don't bump the line pressure up enough to warrent using them. also after you have the trans assembled and before you put the valvebody on ,pressure check the trans to make sure all the clutches apply and with the teflon's you will have to fill the ports with trans fluid several times and air check to hear them apply . PS ,Vasoline is the best assemble lube for a trans -use it on the seals when installing the pistons in the drums and the case -for holding the torringtons and thrust washers in place on assemble

The heartbeat stops here!
I bleed blue oval blue, and **** hugger orange!
www.gearheadzautomotive.com
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y19...sigpiccopy.jpg

Last edited by Gearhead559; 02-22-2009 at 05:57 AM.
Gearhead559 is offline  
post #3 of 181 (permalink) Old 09-24-2007, 02:06 AM Thread Starter
Senior Member
 
Gearhead559's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Rob from OHIO!
Posts: 1,941
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
 
Send a message via AIM to Gearhead559 Send a message via Yahoo to Gearhead559
i have the one drum that will hold 5 clutchs with the wave plate removed!
one less part i need!


frank is this the right pick up tube i need?
tci pickup for there extra deep pan

its the one that came with my pan!


now i plan on doing a complete build thread on this, and this is just a information gathering thread at this point!
So lets I.D. some of the parts frank is talking about!

Reverse Planetary carrier (sitting in it's hub)
4 pinion


3 pinion


Low Reverse Clutch piston (the 2 different ones i have found so far)
Old style piston(the one you should use)

notice the check ball!
old style piston springs and retainer

there are more springs then that!

and this is where the check ball should in when piston is installed!

12 o'clock, valve body is too the bottom pf pic!

newer style piston

notice lack of check ball!

and its spring assembly

The heartbeat stops here!
I bleed blue oval blue, and **** hugger orange!
www.gearheadzautomotive.com
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y19...sigpiccopy.jpg

Last edited by Gearhead559; 02-22-2009 at 06:03 AM.
Gearhead559 is offline  
post #4 of 181 (permalink) Old 09-24-2007, 08:08 PM
Senior Member
 
Frank Merkl's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Brooks Alberta Canada
Posts: 1,956
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 5 Post(s)
 
The trans with the oddball mount is a Lincoln trans (long tail shaft ) don't use it ,but it will be a good parts trans, it will probably have some good parts in it ,ie 5 clutch high/reverse drum
Frank
Frank Merkl is offline  
post #5 of 181 (permalink) Old 09-24-2007, 09:17 PM Thread Starter
Senior Member
 
Gearhead559's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Rob from OHIO!
Posts: 1,941
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
 
Send a message via AIM to Gearhead559 Send a message via Yahoo to Gearhead559
frank, can i use the front half of the case from the lincoln trans?

just use my tail shaft and housing? and some internals from it!

The heartbeat stops here!
I bleed blue oval blue, and **** hugger orange!
www.gearheadzautomotive.com
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y19...sigpiccopy.jpg
Gearhead559 is offline  
post #6 of 181 (permalink) Old 09-24-2007, 11:04 PM
Senior Member
 
Frank Merkl's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Brooks Alberta Canada
Posts: 1,956
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 5 Post(s)
 
yes ,just swap out the output shaft and tail housing
Frank
Frank Merkl is offline  
post #7 of 181 (permalink) Old 09-30-2007, 10:31 PM Thread Starter
Senior Member
 
Gearhead559's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Rob from OHIO!
Posts: 1,941
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
 
Send a message via AIM to Gearhead559 Send a message via Yahoo to Gearhead559
sweet..im going to start taking apart the 3 c-6s i have sitting here.

i have the 2 BB ones and a sb one. (just using the sb 1 too nab parts if need be!)

The heartbeat stops here!
I bleed blue oval blue, and **** hugger orange!
www.gearheadzautomotive.com
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y19...sigpiccopy.jpg
Gearhead559 is offline  
post #8 of 181 (permalink) Old 10-01-2007, 09:49 AM Thread Starter
Senior Member
 
Gearhead559's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Rob from OHIO!
Posts: 1,941
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
 
Send a message via AIM to Gearhead559 Send a message via Yahoo to Gearhead559
more questions..

what about the sprag? should i go ahead and get a heavy duty sprag upgrade kit?

And as far as band's go, is there a flew and rigid band? or just a flex band.

all my exploded veiws are only showing 1 band? wtf?

The heartbeat stops here!
I bleed blue oval blue, and **** hugger orange!
www.gearheadzautomotive.com
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y19...sigpiccopy.jpg
Gearhead559 is offline  
post #9 of 181 (permalink) Old 10-01-2007, 09:58 AM Thread Starter
Senior Member
 
Gearhead559's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Rob from OHIO!
Posts: 1,941
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
 
Send a message via AIM to Gearhead559 Send a message via Yahoo to Gearhead559
i mean flex band..looks like it should be a rigid band????

The heartbeat stops here!
I bleed blue oval blue, and **** hugger orange!
www.gearheadzautomotive.com
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y19...sigpiccopy.jpg
Gearhead559 is offline  
post #10 of 181 (permalink) Old 10-01-2007, 10:50 AM
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Assonet, MA
Posts: 1,667
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
 
Send a message via AIM to psquare75
Quote:
Originally Posted by Frank Merkl
The trans with the oddball mount is a Lincoln trans (long tail shaft ) don't use it ,but it will be a good parts trans, it will probably have some good parts in it ,ie 5 clutch high/reverse drum
Frank
That tranny is exactly what's in my truck from a 78 Town Car.. I just made some spacer blocks for the crossmember and drilled different frame holes.

psquare75 is offline  
post #11 of 181 (permalink) Old 10-02-2007, 01:05 AM Thread Starter
Senior Member
 
Gearhead559's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Rob from OHIO!
Posts: 1,941
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
 
Send a message via AIM to Gearhead559 Send a message via Yahoo to Gearhead559
how do i tell what years they are? :?:

need to know the year before i can order parts

The heartbeat stops here!
I bleed blue oval blue, and **** hugger orange!
www.gearheadzautomotive.com
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y19...sigpiccopy.jpg
Gearhead559 is offline  
post #12 of 181 (permalink) Old 10-02-2007, 02:05 AM
s_stang
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Mentioned: Post(s)
Tagged: Thread(s)
Quoted: Post(s)
Here is a link to a page with case part numbers and description..

http://home.teleport.com/~tsco/catal..._f.htm#default

Not sure it that will help?
post #13 of 181 (permalink) Old 10-02-2007, 11:46 PM
Senior Member
 
Frank Merkl's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Brooks Alberta Canada
Posts: 1,956
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 5 Post(s)
 
Gearhead , first Question how much hp ,better yet just Ph me at 403-793-5412 (evenings)and I'll set you staight on what you have to build
Frank
Frank Merkl is offline  
post #14 of 181 (permalink) Old 10-03-2007, 07:50 PM Thread Starter
Senior Member
 
Gearhead559's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Rob from OHIO!
Posts: 1,941
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
 
Send a message via AIM to Gearhead559 Send a message via Yahoo to Gearhead559
Quote:
Originally Posted by Frank Merkl
Gearhead , first Question how much hp ,better yet just Ph me at 403-793-5412 (evenings)and I'll set you staight on what you have to build
Frank
this may be a dumb question, but what time zone are you in? so i know what time i need to call...lol

The heartbeat stops here!
I bleed blue oval blue, and **** hugger orange!
www.gearheadzautomotive.com
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y19...sigpiccopy.jpg
Gearhead559 is offline  
post #15 of 181 (permalink) Old 10-04-2007, 10:09 PM
Senior Member
 
Frank Merkl's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Brooks Alberta Canada
Posts: 1,956
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 5 Post(s)
 
Mountian Daylight saving time
Frank Merkl is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Reply
Gear in this thread - Powered by O'Reilly Auto Parts

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the 460 Ford Forum forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.

User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in









Human Verification

In order to verify that you are a human and not a spam bot, please enter the answer into the following box below based on the instructions contained in the graphic.



Thread Tools Search this Thread
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes
Linear Mode Linear Mode



Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome