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429 install into 1968 montego wagon

52K views 429 replies 24 participants last post by  68xr7cat 
#1 ·
Hello everyone I have a 1971 429 motor that I am currently installing into my wagon. I know it's not a complete car build up or restore but I have some questions and would like some advice. I have what I think are thunderbird or boss motor mounts. They are the big wide ones that bolt right to the block. And I have bought frame mounts that bolt to the frame. I know I am missing the insulator which I was going to make myself because they are way to expensive for a hunk of metal I can make myself. Anyway I got the engine on the crane last night and lowered it down in my car, which is up on jack stands in my garage. To have my engine down far enough to get the power brake booster on and get the trans to fit as well as the gas pedal z bar to work my block mounts are basically sitting on my frame mounts. My question is how can there be a 4 inch tall insulator???? I'm dumbfounded! So I took the frame mounts off and lowered it in and have it sitting where I want it and it clears everything and I can get the top bolts in the trans. But the frame mounts on the block are about three inches away from the frame!! Does anyone have an pictures of what the mounts all bolted together and in the car look like??? I was going to buy the crites kit but that's 210$!! And it looks like it would make it too tall. My airplanes gonna already be sticking out of the hood. And any pictures of what your 429 looks like in your engine bay, spacing from the firewall and side to side but mostly I just want to see a pic of the engine in a mustang or whatever and see what the mounts look like. That's I appreciate it. Ned d to move past this so I can get going.
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#150 ·
The Torrington bearings are nice from the aspect that they reduce the friction considerably and reduce the trans operating temperatures.

The only issue i believe, is that since the bearings are thicker, so much so, that the clutch drums etc. need to be machined to supply the necessary clearance. (This might not be an issue today, but that is what i remember)
 
#149 ·
Anything wrong with TCI's shift kit? I recently bought the TCI master racing overhaul kit and it comes with a shift kit. Didnt say much about the kit on the website description wise. Just heard alot of things not so good about them saying to not use their shift kit! Anyone care to explain? Any opinions would be greatly appreciated.

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#152 ·
For what you are doing you are wasting your time and money on all those upgrades. Basic rebuild, shift kit, want to go crazy new set of friction and steels. Don't know what tool your friend has, but there is more than one tool and if you know what you are doing don't need special tools for a C-6.

Hardest deal is the the low reverse clutch piston and is a way to get that out and back in without special tools. Most important is not cutting a seal on installation and setting your clearances correctly. Of course how to properly inspect everything and know what is ok and what is not requires experience which you will get.

If the other unit is good all you need to do is swap the output shaft and tail housing. Not a big deal, hardest part is getting the clip out that retains the output shaft. Remember to transfer the governor to the new output shaft. Put a good shift kit in it and your done.
 
#155 ·
They are not considered special tools. Special tools would be specific for that unit. Nothing like a $200 tool you only use once!

Anyway not much to a shift kit, lock down some accumulators, open up a few feed passages, and change or shim the pressure regular spring for more line pressure are main things. I like the Transgo kit #67-1&2 set it up as "Competition" and use a black striped modulator. Make sure the modulator is adjust right and the pin length is correct.

Biggest problem people have on rebuilds is cutting a seal. Up to about 1977 Ford used square cut seals and they are easy to R&R. Later they went to lip seals and those can be a pain. Make sure you air check the drums for proper apply. Next is breaking a sealing ring on assembly.

The other important things are proper clutch pack clearance and unit end play.

Another pitfall is the VB. Do not take every valve and spring out. I've seen guys do this countless times and somehow something always gets mixed up. I just split the VB spray everything down with some brake cleaner and use a screwdriver to make sure each valve moves freely. If I have to remove valves I do one at a time. Take it out, do what is needed, and put it back in. Never a problem.

Steve
 
#159 ·
Well got my trans out of the car tonight, about to start the rebuild so be prepared to answer questions guy!!! how can you tell if the torque converter is bad? it shouldnt be because its brand new but i would hate to put it all back in the car and find out that its done for as well.
 
#160 ·
So I have drained the converter fluid out and low and behold theres metal shavings. I collected a small amount of metal shavings. I will post a couple of pictures as well. Hope you can see them good enough. So does this mean my torque converter is screwed?? That would suck its brand new.

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#161 ·
Does the converter rattle when shook side to side? Or does the remaining fluid just "slosh" around inside? Anyway, it would be best to replace the converter as flushing the old converter might be a waste even if it is good.

Do you have a separate trans-cooler or just the radiator mounted unit? I would buy a aftermarket cooler to avoid contaminating your newly rebuilt transmission. They aren't too expensive and worth the piece of mind..
 
#162 ·
That metal is from your transmission, but gets into your converter which you should replace. You can buy a decent converter for about $250. Keep taking pics as you pull each sub assembly out, you will refer to them later when you build it back up.

D


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#163 ·
To answer your question mp40 the converter does wiggle a good bit. Say about an 1/8 inch or so back and forth.
Yeah I figured yhe converter wouldn't be worth trying to clean. Atleast it was only 60 $ from advanced auto. Yeah I will have to get a cooler. I heard you should use a cooler inline with the radiator one. But def don't want to contaminate it when I rebuild it. Is there gonna be anything outside of the rebuild kit that worn down and will need replaced. Where did the metal shavings come from???

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#164 ·
To answer your question mp40 the converter does wiggle a good bit. Say about an 1/8 inch or so back and forth.
Yeah I figured the converter wouldn't be worth trying to clean. At least it was only 60 $ from advanced auto. Yeah, I will have to get a cooler. I heard that you should use a cooler inline with the radiator. But def don't want to contaminate it when I rebuild it. Is there gonna be anything outside of the rebuild kit that worn down and will need replaced. Where did the metal shavings come from???

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The torque converter might still be good. However, it definitely ate a lot of metal and that would kill your rebuilt trans fast. So, definitely a good decision to replace it.

Now, the fact that the torque converter that was in your car was new, didn't really mean that it was good quality to begin with especially at the $60 price range. They really make them cheap and barely worth placing behind a stock engine IMHO.

Not that you should spend $ a high performance unit, but at least a decent rebuilt version call your local transmission rebuild shop and see what they recommend.

As far as the radiator/external cooler is concerned, i prefer the use of both. The radiator cooler needs to be flushed before its re-use. They make pressurized flush kits to rinse out the lines and the radiator cooler. These kits should be available locally.

The external coolers are available in many sizes and are rated via vehicle weight. The best versions in my opinion, use the round tube design instead of the flattened tubes. The routing of the system should be from the transmission to the radiator then to the cooler. Then back to the transmission.

If i where running the C6 in my mustang again, i was considering obtaining a remote engine oil filter and mounting that on the chassis near the transmission and routing the cooler lines from the trans to the filter from there, to the radiator then to the external oil cooler.

As for worn out components, there could be any worn components in that case. As there are the clutch steels and the clutches themselves, the clutch drum(s) The bronze (or plastic) thrust washers, the one-way "sprag" clutch, the parking paul assembly etc.

The valve body is usual extremely tough and will ingest lots of clutch material steel shavings etc. and continue working. However, they need to have good gaskets and a good cleaning from time to time. The do have lots and lots of small ball bearings and springs etc in their construction. They need to be carefully disassembled...Nothing hard, just take your time don't rush it.

Pay close attention to the valve body bolts and their placement. The torque values are very important here. Again, take your time, don't rush.

The metal shavings could have come from any source, even the torque converter. The hard parts are fairly "bullet proof" in the C6 as long as quality part(s) are, or where used in its construction.

The cleaner external/internal the better.

Lastly, make sure to not over torque the:

1. Front pump bolts.

2. Valve body bolts.

3. Oil pan bolts.

Again, take your time and observe the small details as you go.
 
#166 ·
The work can be tedious and boring if you let it. I strive to improve whatever it is that i work upon. The C6 is a great transmission and was produced for a long time. However, it was assembled by workers that had little time for detail work.

O.C.D will help with this build.
 
#167 ·
When it comes to a trans cooler I run mine into the cooler and out and that's it, I don't go into the rad as I don't drive mine in the colder seasons, going thru the rad actually helps heat up your transfluid faster when it is cold. Don't know when you drive yours but food for thought.

I agree100X on the external filter option as they are cheap and they filter way better than your pan filter, which can save you from future sticky valves or other issues. I like to use WD40 when cleaning up my valvebodies and freeing up any gummed up valves. Just make sure you clean up good and pour fresh fluid in as you reassemble.

Have fun with it especially if you like jig saw puzzles, by the time you are done you will understand it better and know that it is good as you built it.

D
 
#169 ·
#170 ·
You can run thru the oil filter, just make sure you get the flow direction right. If you don't and your filter has a drain back valve you will effectively block the flow of fluid. Personally I think it is a waste of time. I've used them before and would not waste my time unless I expected to be tearing up a bunch of transmissions.

I would not route the cooler lines through the radiator cooler if you have metal in the fluid. I do not care how or what is used to flush it you will not get everything out. Those coolers look like a cheese grater and hot ATF is great at cleaning everything out. If you do reuse a cooler that had debris in it best to put a transmission filter in the return line and change it out after a month.

I'd just get a cooler rated at least 20,000 GVW. The flat pancake ones work better than the tube and fin and use less space. I've used them both and is my experience. I would not be concerned about just running an external cooler. I know all about the too cold concerns and yet to see a unit have a problem with just an external cooler. I'd be more concerned about getting too hot.

Only way to know the condition of a torque converter is to cut it open on a lathe. Just replace it and move on. If you are concerned about getting a good quality converter just buy it from Chuck. He has been using the same company for 12 years without any problems.

BTW does the metal debris in the oil stick to a magnet?

Steve
 
#171 · (Edited)
Well so far I have the rebuild kit and an external trans cooler. I'm debating on whether getting a stock stall converter or a mild stall converter. My question is would a 2000 or so stall be too much. Most of the roads around here are 25-35 miles per hour. Is it necessary for that or will I be going on and off converter seeing how my rpm will always be around 2500 or lower. Oh and steve yes the shavings stick to a magnet. I drained the converter and swirled a magnet in the fluid and that's what I got out. Sorry I took so long to respond. Thanks for all the advice guys.

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#172 ·
I would go with a mild stall myself. Keep in mind that the advertized stall ratio can change somewhat due to the weight of your vehicle and your engines torque curve.

A high stall on the street can be annoying and will build up heat rapidly as well.
 
#174 ·
Rust!!!! Rust everywhere inside this trans. No wonder it died. I just started tearing down this trans and this is what i found. Does that mean these parts need to replaced. Should I just get a different trans? Let me know what you think and what I should do here. Probably gonna keep tearing it apart to see how it works. Thanks ryan

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