Drag race transmission. C4 or TH400?? - 460 Ford Forum
Driveline Discuss Driveline & Related Components.
 photo Black Magic Clutches Logo main_zpsntjgrboc.jpg

User Tag List

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
post #1 of 29 (permalink) Old 07-17-2013, 04:57 AM Thread Starter
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: So.Cal
Posts: 2,426
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3 Post(s)
 
Drag race transmission. C4 or TH400??

3300# Torino, 472" with a little NOS and currently a C6. The C6 is not working for me, so I need to switch to a unit that will work.
I like the idea of a full built C4 because of the light weight of the unit as a whole, and the light weight rotating internals. But I hear too many negative comments about them in full race applications....and mostly from Ford guys!!

I also am considering a GM TH400 with a BBF bellhousing. I know this trans will take anything I can dish out, and if I have trouble with it at a race, there are usually several vendors on site that can rebuild, or repair it within minuites.

In any case, this will be a full rollerized, reverse manual unit with a transbrake.
What say you??

As the world turns...I get more dizzy!
TorinoStyle2 is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 29 (permalink) Old 07-17-2013, 09:52 AM
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Australia
Posts: 962
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 46 Post(s)
 
Quote:
Quote:
Originally Posted by TorinoStyle2 View Post
3300# Torino, 472" with a little NOS and currently a C6. The C6 is not working for me, so I need to switch to a unit that will work.
I like the idea of a full built C4 because of the light weight of the unit as a whole, and the light weight rotating internals. But I hear too many negative comments about them in full race applications....and mostly from Ford guys!!

I also am considering a GM TH400 with a BBF bellhousing. I know this trans will take anything I can dish out, and if I have trouble with it at a race, there are usually several vendors on site that can rebuild, or repair it within minuites.

In any case, this will be a full rollerized, reverse manual unit with a transbrake.
What say you??
Talk to Frank Merkl about your C6, thats what i would do first.

The C4 will handle alot of power but it's high maintainance.

I have a turbo 400 built by Mike Ridings and converter also built by him(his on this site), No problems on the street so far, will be at the track later this year!!

Hope this helps.
bob460 is offline  
post #3 of 29 (permalink) Old 07-17-2013, 08:07 PM
Member
 
Dragz79's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Illinois City, Illinois
Posts: 96
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
 
What kind of problems are you having with your c6? If you want to stick with a 3 speed, you have the one to handle the most power with the fewest mods. What is your c6 built like now? To change to any other trany means lots of coin! Scott

Give it all it's got and don't look back!!
Dragz79 is offline  
post #4 of 29 (permalink) Old 07-18-2013, 01:07 AM Thread Starter
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: So.Cal
Posts: 2,426
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3 Post(s)
 
It has a Frank Merkle reverse manual transbrake valvebody in it. When idling or cruising around the pits in 1st gear, it automatically applies reverse and the transmission goes into a "bind" and locks up the wheels.
I suspect some kind of internal leaking somewhere thats putting the pressurized fluid into the passages that apply reverse.

I pulled the valvebody out and thoroughly cleaned it and inspected it, but could see nothing wrong with it to the naked eye.
I placed a strait edge on both half's and they were both flat as can be.
I re-installed it, and torqued it in the correct pattern. Now I have to rev up the engine to get the car to move in any direction.

Im going to have to spend the coin for another different transmission, as I have already spent way too much on this one, only to have problem after problem.

I've had this unit gone thru several times (4 to be exact) at the cost of $650 each time, so theres no way Im doing it again.

As the world turns...I get more dizzy!
TorinoStyle2 is offline  
post #5 of 29 (permalink) Old 07-18-2013, 09:02 AM
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Moose Jaw Saskatchewan Canada
Posts: 366
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
 
Wink

Quote:
Originally Posted by TorinoStyle2 View Post
It has a Frank Merkle reverse manual transbrake valvebody in it. When idling or cruising around the pits in 1st gear, it automatically applies reverse and the transmission goes into a "bind" and locks up the wheels.
I suspect some kind of internal leaking somewhere thats putting the pressurized fluid into the passages that apply reverse.

I pulled the valvebody out and thoroughly cleaned it and inspected it, but could see nothing wrong with it to the naked eye.
I placed a strait edge on both half's and they were both flat as can be.
I re-installed it, and torqued it in the correct pattern. Now I have to rev up the engine to get the car to move in any direction.

Im going to have to spend the coin for another different transmission, as I have already spent way too much on this one, only to have problem after problem.

I've had this unit gone thru several times (4 to be exact) at the cost of $650 each time, so theres no way Im doing it again.
It is not being done right then.

Wrench twister since 1957.
Journeyman in 1964.
Transmission builder since 1964.
stuarta is offline  
post #6 of 29 (permalink) Old 07-18-2013, 09:25 AM
Senior Member
 
68montego's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Downingtown, PA
Posts: 914
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
 
I rebuilt my c6 by myself. First time ever rebuilding a transmission. Works flawlessly couldn't be happier. They are pretty simple even for a guy who knew nothing about transmissions. When mine reved up to go anywhere there was a lot of burnt clutches and clogged valvebody.

Sent from AutoGuide.com Free App
68montego is offline  
post #7 of 29 (permalink) Old 07-18-2013, 10:43 AM Thread Starter
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: So.Cal
Posts: 2,426
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3 Post(s)
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by 68montego View Post
I rebuilt my c6 by myself. First time ever rebuilding a transmission. Works flawlessly couldn't be happier. They are pretty simple even for a guy who knew nothing about transmissions. When mine reved up to go anywhere there was a lot of burnt clutches and clogged valvebody.

Sent from AutoGuide.com Free App
When I pulled the pan, it was full of thick black/grey gunk....probably clutch material. That is why I had to clean out the valvebody too.

I've done several C4's myself for mild performance apps., but I did'nt have the time to do my C6 because of work schedules.

As the world turns...I get more dizzy!
TorinoStyle2 is offline  
post #8 of 29 (permalink) Old 07-18-2013, 12:42 PM
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Moose Jaw Saskatchewan Canada
Posts: 366
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by TorinoStyle2 View Post
When I pulled the pan, it was full of thick black/grey gunk....probably clutch material. That is why I had to clean out the valvebody too.

I've done several C4's myself for mild performance apps., but I did'nt have the time to do my C6 because of work schedules.
Convertor, cooler and lines will have the same junk in them.

Wrench twister since 1957.
Journeyman in 1964.
Transmission builder since 1964.
stuarta is offline  
post #9 of 29 (permalink) Old 07-18-2013, 08:48 PM
Senior Member
 
460VEGA's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: S.C.
Posts: 356
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
 
A good c4 would be fine on motor,but on the gas it might be iffy. I`ve had good life out of mine running high nines at 2800 lbs, but I don`t spray it.

74VEGA 466 C4 6.18@110,9.77@135.66 ON PUMP GAS
460VEGA is offline  
post #10 of 29 (permalink) Old 07-19-2013, 03:51 AM
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Australia
Posts: 2,100
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 12 Post(s)
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by stuarta View Post
It is not being done right then.
Something way wrong in the setup. Frank gives the whole setup , I'd be staying C6 and follow that.
gregaust is offline  
post #11 of 29 (permalink) Old 07-19-2013, 06:32 AM
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Moose Jaw Saskatchewan Canada
Posts: 366
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by gregaust View Post
Something way wrong in the setup. Frank gives the whole setup , I'd be staying C6 and follow that.
^5.

Wrench twister since 1957.
Journeyman in 1964.
Transmission builder since 1964.
stuarta is offline  
post #12 of 29 (permalink) Old 07-19-2013, 07:42 AM
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Naples, Fl.
Posts: 1,803
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
 
trans talk

Hello Style2, I'm doing my first ford build and my first delimma was the trans problems that I herd about with the fords (being a chevy guy for ever) so I was going to do mine with a t-400 as well, but I was helping a guy at the track tune his Montego when he told me he was going to put a P/G in his car so as a racer for a long time I said why whenever you have a really good C-6 and his reply was that all the dragster guys are running P/G's my reply was they are 1800 lbs and you are 3600, anyway he done the swap and his car ran the same ET's to the number so I baught his C-6 w/brake and converter and it works perfact as good as any T-400 or P/G I ever owned so take it out and give it to someone that knows C-6 trannys first and don't give up! I would give you the name and number to the tranny guy but we live in sunny south Florida good luck friend and happy racing, Butterbean
butterbean is offline  
post #13 of 29 (permalink) Old 07-19-2013, 05:18 PM
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: michigan
Posts: 900
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
 
c6

Talk to Frank, I would stay with the c6 and take it to someone who knows what there doing. Way cheaper to build c6. You could go c4 but its not cheap. I run a a c4 with all PA internals and trans brake love the trans 410w with 250 shoot running 9's in a 3200lb mustang, but I have with converter around $2500 into. C4 will work but it'll cost you. Make sure you flush the lines and cooler. Joe
torinojoe1971 is offline  
post #14 of 29 (permalink) Old 07-19-2013, 07:54 PM Thread Starter
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: So.Cal
Posts: 2,426
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3 Post(s)
 
Is a C6 cheaper than a TH400??....all the Chevy boys say no, but I have not done comparison shopping yet.
A TH400 has slightly lighter internal parts, right?? Plus it will take the big torque that a C4 wont, correct??

Im kinda leaning towards the TH400.

As the world turns...I get more dizzy!
TorinoStyle2 is offline  
post #15 of 29 (permalink) Old 07-19-2013, 08:22 PM
Senior Member
 
68montego's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Downingtown, PA
Posts: 914
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
 
You can rollerize the c6 with torrington bearings which reduces the internal drag and friction which results in it eating up hp. Also can modify and stick some E4OD parts in there which help even more. Dont know price comparison though.

Sent from AutoGuide.com Free App
68montego is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the 460 Ford Forum forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.

User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in









Human Verification

In order to verify that you are a human and not a spam bot, please enter the answer into the following box below based on the instructions contained in the graphic.



Thread Tools Search this Thread
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes
Linear Mode Linear Mode



Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome