Road Racing 78 THUNDERBIRD - Page 2 - 460 Ford Forum
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post #16 of 55 (permalink) Old 12-17-2009, 02:21 PM
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weight , make of car and all the rest, well the one factor is money can buy the high end cars but still have to know how to drive. taking a chance on crashing a few hundred dollar S box on the street vs big buck rides is not racing .
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post #17 of 55 (permalink) Old 12-24-2009, 06:07 PM
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Originally Posted by 466Fairmont View Post
Why is it wishful thinking? With the right amount of preparation and money any car could handle well. 911's are not amazing handling cars, and can easily be out handled by Fox bodies... They have a big problem with weight distribution, having all that engine out back.

The rear engine configuration of a 911 is not as ideal as a mid-engine configuration, but it is nearly as good and it is better than a front engine configuration - unless is it s front/mid-engine setup like a Corvette or Aston Martin. Having a lot of rear weight bias is of HUGE benefit for braking. I think you would find a modern rear engined Porsche to be aptly described as having amazing handling.

I had a look at the Red-line Time Attack rules and there may be some loopholes in the letter of the rules, but the intent of the rules would make it very difficult to be competitive. My car has been developed to the point where it is getting close to the fastest 911s on some tracks, but it would never work with the Time Attack rules. I am sure it would be considered tube frame even though it uses some of the original frame rails. Also, there are no remnants of an original firewall and the engine is far enough back that is might be considered mid-engine in the context mentioned above.

You can see some rear engine Porsches in the videos I have on YouTube (see signature link). Some of them in the videos are fast, but they are not the fastest ones.

The BBF will get you in the ball park for lbs/HP and ahead for lbs/torque, but when it comes to braking and corner speeds, the weight will be a very difficult problem to overcome - especially if it is front biased.
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post #18 of 55 (permalink) Old 12-26-2009, 01:44 AM Thread Starter
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You could find a chassis and put your stuff on it , and or at least make them into sub-frames . You can flair the car , so as long as it looks like a street car , you should be fine . The other cars from HKS and Crawford are not that far from you or the NXS's that pop up . On a side note , if I bring my cars to a track , do you think you can do three fast laps in it ? I'v also looked at the rules and thought that Unlimted is to high a goal for a street car and thought Modified class would be better for my car and the set-up I'm going for . And why do you slow down so much for the corners ? Do you have high down force or low down force ? Do you think 315-35-18 in front and 345-35-18 in the rear will be enough for my car ? I can put on slicks and get bumped up to Unlimited if you want to try your hand at it (hint , hint ) . That is a nice Mercury you got there , keep up the good work . Got the titles straight and found my dual oil filter and lines I'll be using . Pictures are coming when my freinds shop opens up .
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post #19 of 55 (permalink) Old 01-07-2010, 10:40 PM Thread Starter
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DSC00442.jpg

I'll be mounting this up later on Saturday. I'm getting a brakes next week for the low low .
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post #20 of 55 (permalink) Old 01-15-2010, 10:44 AM
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Are you fitting 315s and 345s in stock wheel houses front and rear? I felt 295s in the rear were cutting it really close with no mods and 295s up front work BARELY.

Thoughts?
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post #21 of 55 (permalink) Old 01-20-2010, 10:11 PM Thread Starter
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I do plan on carving up the fenders to fit the tires . But before that , I'll find the deepest offset wheel I can get away with on a 18" wheel ( I'll take pictures before and after I put in the new spindles ). I still have to put the spindles in first , and the Panther chassis spindles look like they will work with machined ball joints . And the rules for the Redline Time Attack say the tread has to be covered , so it might work out fine with the sway bar from hell going back there . Let me know If you want me to try out some bigger offsets and wheels ( 18" and 20" ) for you and your brake set-up . But I don't plan on using spacers at all on my car . What wheel did you use for the 295s you used ?
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post #22 of 55 (permalink) Old 02-05-2010, 09:36 AM
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I think instead of going with Panther spindles, you could machine a rotor down to become a hub, slip the rotor over this new hub and fab up some caliper brackets. One guy did this on the Torino forum with great success.

I'm ultimately going to run 18x8s and 18x9s on the car, and I dont predict any fitment problems.

the 295 was a 295 50 15. This is a known tire to fit these cars (provided you don't have a rigged up exhaust that goes in the wheel well), on a 15x10.
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post #23 of 55 (permalink) Old 02-13-2010, 04:14 AM Thread Starter
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Sorry for not sending pictures , but it's raining alot in Las Vegas and I'v been doing overtime and have'nt got a chance to do a thing to the car. There is'nt many people here that I would let weld a bracket for my front spindle . But I will look at it , where is this at ? Will he make me a spindle ?
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post #24 of 55 (permalink) Old 02-13-2010, 08:57 AM
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It uses the OEM spindle. Its just a caliper bracket.
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post #25 of 55 (permalink) Old 03-24-2010, 08:36 PM Thread Starter
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I'm getting overtime .....I'm not turning it down .

I'v run into a problem we all have ran into (BIG BLOCK GUY'S) , my friends air is'nt strong enough to lossen the control arms parts . He drives a Nissan Z . So to the swap meet I go to get an air pump . The other 460 block will be bought soon , I only got one good 460 core so far for $150.00 . Got rid of some stuff inside the car .
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post #26 of 55 (permalink) Old 03-25-2010, 04:11 AM
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Stick with the panther spindles IMO because if you rig up that setup, your just increasing unsprung weight. Also, 911 Porsches are the yardstick by which all sports cars are measured, that doesnt happen by accident. The new ones will pull over 1G stock. All out indy and F1 cars only pull like 1.4, so Id say youd have yourhands full trying to outhandle one. No matter what though, it is good seeing someone trying to have fun and be competitive. One last thing, and i mean absolutely no offense, and i hope you dont take it wrong, but why a 78? They're not exactly......pretty

Real cars dont have hood props.
1971 Mach1 --- the last year of Ford muscle
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post #27 of 55 (permalink) Old 05-12-2010, 10:30 PM Thread Starter
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I have been doing over time and working on cars trying to get money together . Coleman make fabricated spindles that are looking really good and give me everything I want but , the bolt pattern will be 5 on 5 . And I want to use a FORD GT wheels on the car . The lower steering arm can be unbolted and they come 9" and 10" inches tall (like the panther spindles ) and a 3.5" inch drop like I'll need to keep the suspinsion were I want it . And yes I will use lock tight and and a inch pound wrench . I'll be getting a new computer in a week so I will not be getting them this week . colemanracing.com has them at $300.00 + for each and they come in parts and boolts are sold seperate .
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post #28 of 55 (permalink) Old 11-07-2010, 11:10 PM Thread Starter
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This cooling system keeps the engine at 150 degreas in Las Vegas at 110 outside on the strip and stomping on the car all day .
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post #29 of 55 (permalink) Old 01-22-2011, 09:55 AM
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If you are going to road race that car, I would suggest that you purchace a Suspension Analyzer program, measure your suspension points, and see what you need to do to get the geometry closer to and ideal set-up. Things like "camber curve" "bump steer" "virtual swing arm", as well as other terms, are very important to address, to make your car handle properly.

Weight distribution is very important also. What can you do to improve that?

I measured mine (same chassis, '76 Ford Elite) and would like to improve it. After plotting the front suspension out in autocad, I see that the upper control arms, where they attach to the frame, need to go down and back quite a bit, requiring extensive frame modifications (cut/weld).
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post #30 of 55 (permalink) Old 01-22-2011, 10:50 AM
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If I were going road racing w/ my car, I would probably track down a 2003-up Crown Vic front aluminum cross member and suspension and add cop car front springs, cut/weld the frame to get rid of the spring pockets/shock mounts (making the crossmember easier to bolt in) and get a 14" Baer brake upgrade kit:

http://www.ford-trucks.com/forums/71...o-67-f100.html

http://www.streetortrack.com/Maraude...003-c-473.html

This'll give you rack and pinion steering, big brakes, decent geometry, lighter weight.
I would also plot that suspension into an analyzer and see if there's anything simple that can be done to improve geometry (slotting mounts?).

Here's a rear brake kit that'll work on a torino/tbird rear axle and give 13" rotors:

http://www.ssbrakes.com/commerce/det....cfm?nPID=9060

i would also look into doing something like this to address the weight distribution:

http://www.hotrod.com/projectbuild/1...ova/index.html
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