Mild build up

I want to know what combp to run with my build... I need new pistons, a new cam, to run with my .30 over block ported stock 77 460 heads , a scj intake and probably a 600 or 650 edlebrock carb..... any tips will help and if i need to specify on anything let me know

any hints

Motorhome?
Jet boat?
460 powered helicopter?
Monster truck?
71 Pinto?

And the desired result is...

Optimum Gas Mileage?
Sustained cruise and peak torque at 3000rpm?
Ability to jump 15 school busses?
Reliability so your helicopter doesn't crash ?
Demolition Derby?

This forum has seen all those...and more.

Take as long as it takes to clearly describe exactly what your application is, what parts you have and intend to use, what parts you can afford to change, and what your goals are.

Then, someone will answer because they'll have enough information about what you're doing to make a comment.

ok i want a motor that will have a lot of torque and a pretty good amount of horsepower. It will be going into a 79 f250 with a 4 speed manual transmission... its a 1977 460 block. im going to have the crank turned and have it bored .030 over. I just purchased a scj intake and will most likely use an edlebrock 600 cfm carb. i have the stock heads but i was told to have them port matchedto the intake. Im not sure what type of cam to use of what pistons to use either... i dont want something that i will have to put 110 octane in but something on 89 or 93 would not be bad. if there is anything i left out let me know\

ok i want a motor that will have a lot of torque and a pretty good amount of horsepower. It will be going into a 79 f250 with a 4 speed manual transmission... its a 1977 460 block. im going to have the crank turned and have it bored .030 over. I just purchased a scj intake and will most likely use an edlebrock 600 cfm carb. i have the stock heads but i was told to have them port matchedto the intake. Im not sure what type of cam to use of what pistons to use either... i dont want something that i will have to put 110 octane in but something on 89 or 93 would not be bad. if there is anything i left out let me know\

The easiest way to make torque is to increase stroke. Is a stroker kit out of the question? Stock 79 heads need more than a port match to make a lot of power; are a set of aftermarket aluminum heads out of the question?

If you have to buy pistons and have the crank turned, I'd look seriously at a stroker kit. If you can afford the heads, I'd look seriously at that as well.

Basically, I'd consider a 545" stroker solution with aftermarket heads and induction built around 10.0-10.3:1 compression. If you can't do that and need to stick with stock rods, stock crank, rebuilder pistons, then your question really becomes what intake and cam should you run to optimize what you have.

this is the first motor i have ever built....i wana keep it rather simple but dont want to go over board... all im looking for i guess is the cam and pistons to use and what i should do with the heads

Get the numbers off your heads so we know exactly what we're working with (this will tell us chamber size and give some indication of potential). This of course assumes you are keeping the stock iron heads. Do you have money in the budget to port them or replace them with a performance aluminum head? Power-per-dollar, this is where to spend the money if you have it to spend.

Next, with the head info and assuming you're going to need to bore it .030, someone can recommend a rebuilder piston to get you into a respectible compression ratio around 10.3:1 or so. Put a forged piston in it...if you get bored, you can spray it a little.

After that, you need a cam recommendation. How much idle lope are you willing to tolerate? What is the stall speed of your converter? Is there money in the budget for a higher stall converter? Lumpy cams don't work too well with stock stall converters because the idle is typically high enough that it loads the converter and the engine likes to stall when going from park to drive...or it'll pull pretty bad at stop lights. A mellow cam will solve this; but will also cost you power.

I'm assuming Rods and Mains are going to stay stock. They've proven themselves well beyond 600fwhp and I think you won't get there from here, so they're probably fine. Crank and mains are fine too.

So for induction I'll assume your SCJ intake and a 600cfm carb.

How about exhaust? What's the plan there?

Smith.5316, What are you going to do with this truck?
I built a 466 for my 1977, F-250, Super Cab, Camper Special, 2wd to serve as my tow vehicle. The block is a 1970 429CJ. The heads are D3VE (92cc) cast iron ported to match the cam by Scott Johnston of Reincarnation. Crank and rods are stock with ARP fasteners. Intake is an Edelbrock Performer (not RPM), I can't remember the exact cam specs but they are very mild with duration @.050 in the 220-230 area and lifts in the .515-.530 area. Pistons are forged with 8.3:1 comp ratio (I wanted to run any gas from anywhere and I may turbo the motor in the future) Exhaust is Hooker Super Comp loooooooong tube headers into dual 3" pipes. Distributor and ignition is stock except for recurve on dizzy. Carb is an Edelbrock 1407 (750 cfm) vac secondary. I have tuned the thing with an LM-1, O2 set up and everything works pretty well. On the engine dyno I used a 670cfm Truck Avenger carb and it proved to be too small stopping with HP around 340 and TQ around 430lb/ft. We swapped on a dyno carb (700 mech sec set up for much bigger motors) and the HP went to 400-405 @ 4600rpm and TQ went to 535 lb/ft @ 3500rpm. All while running in the 10.9 Air Fuel ratio area. So knowing there is a bit more on the table through proper tuning I simply guess that the motor will make 400-425HP @ 4600-4800 rpm and 500-540lb/ft TQ @ 3500 rpm all with quite low compression, easy idle cam and no issues for driving. Because this is a tow vehicle my cam and motor are all done by 4900-5000 rpm and the TQ curve is at 450lb/ft by 2100 rpm and stays above that for the whole rpm operating range. The motor is made from easy to get parts with a few "exotic" items like adjustable rockers, forged pistons, and ARP fasteners throughout. ALL of this you can do quite nicely for your first motor with little to worry about...provided you are looking for a gas friendly, low rpm, torque puller. The way my motor is built all I need to do to raise output (quite a bit very easily) is install smaller chamber heads, a different cam, intake and carb.

Very good info here...especially about the carb issue....dan what was the lobe separation on that cam........important in this type of situation.....D

i like the idea of 400 to 450 horse on 87 gas... im looking for any hints and tips at this point... ill get the numbers off the heads and leat you guys know

ok i have d8ve-a2a heads... also i found an offenhousen intake on my other motor... is this a good intake

Very good info here...especially about the carb issue....dan what was the lobe separation on that cam........important in this type of situation.....D

Devildog, I don't remember...I guess I will have to dig out the paperwork. I am thinking it is in the 112-114 area, but I'll look into it. I'm not so great at paperwork but I will look anyway.

so are these descent heads or do i need to have work done to them

????????/

....will most likely use an edlebrock 600 cfm carb.
Let me tell you what to do with an edelbrock carb........throw it in the street and run over it. :wink: For your type of build I'd recommend a 750 HP. And those heads are boat anchors. On the Offy intake you found: what offy intake would it happen to be?

not really sure what intake it is .. its aluminum and it has a 4 barrel holly carb on it. how can i tell what type it is

Well if it's an Offenhauser 360 it will have that # in a circle right in front of the carb and it will look like a very flat spider & there are two different styles of this intake(as I have 1 of each) the standard 360 or the 360 dual port. The latter has the runners actually split horizontally. Or it could be a Port-o-Sonic, it is a semi tall single plane design with long runners. Or you could stay with the SCJ intake you planned on using, that intake will handle anything you can throw at it from mild to pretty wild (as far as street apps go). The only reason I would get rid of mine on a race app is weight. And you won't have any low-end power loss but you'll have great power to 6000 if you go that far with your heads/cam combo. But I agree with ShadowMaster, you will have way better luck with the 750 Holley than the Edelbrock especially if you want more power and your mileage won't be suffering too much either. Let us know how it turns out and good luck, Doug... 8)

so i have a holly on top of the other intake but im not sure what cfm it is... how can i tell

so i have a holly on top of the other intake but im not sure what cfm it is... how can i tell

Look at the LIST number found on the air/choke horn. This will give you the information on the carb body and you can take that info to the Holley site and figure what carb you have. For instance LIST 1850.

not really sure what intake it is .. its aluminum and it has a 4 barrel holly carb on it. how can i tell what type it is
I always like to know why sombody hates something. Why do you dislike the Edelbrock carb so much?

I find nothing wrong with the Edelbrock carbs as long as they're on street performers/rods. I found night and day differences between Holley & Edelbrock of the same cfm rating on the same engine. Ive' noticed on more than enough occasions that Edelbrocks are better if you want good performance along with keeping better mileage,but Holley's are better for pure performance. I haven't seen it personally, but our resident dyno guys (one chassis, one engine) here have told me that they've seen clear differences on both dyno's of 10-20 HP greater with the Holley vs. Edelbrock. Depending on app. and carbs being of the same cfm rating to start with.. But we all know what they say about opinions too :D Just remember, pick & choose your parts in a manner so you're not swapping out parts every other month, trying something different. Here's a combo I tried on a friends motor recently & it works awesome. .030 flat top hypers for about 10:1 with your D3VE heads, which will work fine if you get some port work done, even with the stock valve sizes & pedestal rockers. We used a Lazer Cams(Call Bill @901 795 6000 or I think rmcomprandy also sells them on this site) cam #FF 270A-275B-09 lift is around .530-.535. The same SCJ intake as you're contemplating, a 750 Holley D.P. This motor pulls hard to 5500 RPM and it still gets descent mileage as long as he keeps the pedal off the floorpan :lol: Unless you're goin' flatout racin' build it with what you got & if it's done right, you won't be disappointed.. Good luck, & keep us posted, Doug... 8)

ill let you know how it goes,.... i just sent the motor to the shop and he is going to let me know how much its going to take to get me started... im think of having Roller rockers put on and having it mad so the lifters are adjustable

I have put Edelbrick carbs on a few engines and have always been lots happier with Holleys, when Carter had the carbs they worked and not much adjusting when Edelbricks too them over just not been the same.I am like shadow master take the edelbrick and run over it witha big heavy truck and installa 750 hp Vac carb you will like it better.



Randy

i hjust need to see what carb i have at home... i need to get the numbers and see

I always like to know why sombody hates something. Why do you dislike the Edelbrock carb so much?
Pretty well summed up in the previous posts. They flat stink. If they're tuned for performance....they have idle and mileage problems. If they're tuned for idle and mileage...they won't make power.

Toss the damn thing. Get a Holley HP or a Demon. If you've got the bucks call Pro Systems. They don't get any better than a Pro Systems carb.

well im getting the block bored .030 and the crank turned... still don't know what type of pistons to run???should i use factory rods or buy new ones

The stock rods will work fine as long as they're reconditioned and new ARP bolts installed. They'll handle 500 HP pretty easy and have been used around 600 HP although in most opinions they probably shouldn't be. If you want some good insurance you can get the Eagle SIR's pretty cheap and they're rated to 700 HP. Plus they're definitely better than the stock ones. Good luck, Doug... 8)