521 TFS A 460 DYNO AND BUILD PARTS FOR 830 HP 700 TRQ !

D1VE 460 block with main studs and short hardblock fill bored 0.30 over

Custom JE 13.5 to 1 pistons for TFS A-460 heads 0.30 over

TFS A-460 "out of the box" heads

TFS A-460 single 4-V intake with plenum work by AMS Racing Engines

Custom ground Comp Cams solid roller .725 lift 275 @ 0.50 duration

Trick Flow BBC roller rockers

Scat 9000 4.300 stroke crank

Scat H beam rods 6.700 long

BRE custom order carb with 2 inch throttle bores ( 1150 cfm??)

This engine pulled 830 HP and 700 ft. lbs of Torque on the DYNO.


We only pulled it to 6800 RPM but, I feel with more RPM and more cam we could hit 850 HP with no other changes...


I'm really pleased with the results !

Nice build, I'm building something very similar.

Thanks, I was not expecting to hit 830 HP with this engine...


It was easy to see that we could have made more power if we could spin it higher.......I know I could have took it a little higher in rpm's but, I wanted to keep it safer and stay at 6800 as a max.....


I do have the new TFS single 4 - V intake ( very tall one ) and we where wondering if the older version of the TFS A-460 intake ( shorter one ) would have changed numbers much?

I am guessing your combo would like the older version intake.

Charlie or Lem could probably shed some light on this further but, I would try one.

I'm looking to get around 850-875. I'm guessing I'll need some portwork to get their?

I don't know?


I think you could attain those numbers with stock heads?


I was only 20 HP shy of 850 and we did not "get everything" out of the combo as far as playing with valve lash and carb jetting?


We also ran the dyno test with regular engine oil, when she gets broken in I will switch to Mobil 1 synthetic that should add 6 to 8 HP to the engine....


So, I think we could have gotten more out of the engine than the 829.9 HP and 701.0 TRQ it pulled......


I did not want to change too much stuff around as 830 HP seemed to be a pretty good HP number overall for this combo.....


We did most of the pulls at 34 degrees timing and then one pull at 35 and one at 36....We only picked up a average of 1 HP moving the timing to 36 but, the torque dropped off along with AFR so we went back to the 34 degrees we started with......


I have a real nice video clip and pics I will post of the runs here.......

I was also only pulling to 6800 RPM, I kind of think we would have got close to 845-850 HP if we could have spun it to 7000 -7200????


I will drive if for while in the current 830/700 state and when it comes out for a re-do" in a couple years I will upgrade the block and crank and cam and see what she will do then?


Overall, I have learned a bunch of good info from this site that I KNOW for sure have helped me make some pretty good HP/TRQ numbers for a street driven 521 BBF......

Any way you could post you Cam Card and Dyno Sheets?

Any way you could post you Cam Card and Dyno Sheets?

Yes, I will post the DYNO sheet and even put up some pics and a video clip of the 830 HP 700 TRQ pull .....

Cool !! :!:

830 HP 700 TRQ AMS 521 Ford



How do you post pics here?


I never could figure out how to do the pics thing at this site...... :lol:

Nice Numbers and very impressive!

go to photobucket.com and open an account. Then you can upload your pictures and link them to the forum. Below your pictures will be Three 'tags'. Just click on the Image one beginning with [img] then copy and paste here.

Bingo, you have pictures :wink:

http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e93/DynoTom/000_0219.jpg

Here is a picture of the 521 engine just before we started making "hard pulls" on it.....


http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e93/DynoTom/000_0509.jpg

If you look at the mounts on the engine that mount it to the DYNO stand you will see something pretty neat....


I had a hellava time finding some mounts that would mate the 521 to the SuperFlow DYNO stand......


One day I was really thinking about what I could get to work and then it hit me !


I used the mounts from my "Evans Racing" engine cradle !


The fit the dyno stand PERFECT and I already had them so I did not have to search more or fab up some !

Pretty cool hey!!!!!! :D

If you look at the mounts on the engine that mount it to the DYNO stand you will see something pretty neat....


I had a hellava time finding some mounts that would mate the 521 to the SuperFlow DYNO stand......


One day I was really thinking about what I could get to work and then it hit me !


I used the mounts from my "Evans Racing" engine cradle !


The fit the dyno stand PERFECT and I already had them so I did not have to search more or fab up some !

Pretty cool hey!!!!!! :D

Pretty Snazzy! That explains how it made so much power. The 'Evans Racing' mounts :P :P

Sorry Charlie, I can't pass up an opportunity to poke fun at ya' :lol:

Yes, those mounts were a "lifesaver" !!!!


I looked around for a long time trying to find something that would work.....Those Evans cradle mounts were just right......


I will post the dyno sheet and vid clip.......

http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e93/DynoTom/000_0515.jpg

The HP was still climbing when you stopped at 6800!! Is the Air Fuel Ratio too lean? It's hovering around 14:1 so if you fatten it up I'll bet that it will make even MORE power!

Barometric pressure is kind of low at 28.50 however at the top of the page it looks as if it's corrected for 29.92 and 60F (Sea Level)

Nice show!

Old School Racer, (Tom isn't it ?),

I'm glad you found a another use for the engine mounts from the cradle. I actually had a boat racer, that bought a cradle from me years ago, bring his engine in to be dynoed at another shop, and the owner of that shop took a look at the cradle and said don't even take the engine out of the cradle. Just sling it all up here and we can hook the flywheel coupler up and dyno it as it is. They did.

I hate to say this, but I agree with Damon, something is really screwed up with that carb. Your A/F ratio numbers are too lean, however your brake specific numbers are a little too high. I'm thinking the fuel emulsion could use some help. You need to take a look at that. I'm bet a new Quick Fuel Technology carb would spank that one's butt. There's more power and torque to be had with carb tuning. Don't run anymore timing.

Meanwhile, I'm proud of you for building a really nice engine and it certainly looks beautiful, neat and clean. Good job and congratulations!

On second thought. That's a SuperFlow dyno and the A/F ratio is calculated not measured. On a DTS dyno it is measured with a wideband O2 sensor. Part of the calculation is the scfm value and that is measured by the whirlybird in the turbine or hat above the carb. That's a very delicate instrument and it's easy for the that calibration to be off. People are always having to send those back to SuperFlow to be recalibrated. So,,,,, maybe it's just the calibration of the scfm that's off and therefore throwing off the A/F ratio numbers. Ask the dyno operator/owner about that please.

Hope this helps,

I will ask about those AFR numbers....I do remember him saying that the jetting in the carb should be changed and we should also "look at the plugs" and play with the valve lash but, I need to get this engine in the car as it's already way behind where it should be....


I'm taking it to a "chassis dyno" shop that deals with a bunch of the NHRA modified super stock cars to have them "super tune" the engine and from what you guys say I will probably be able to best the 830 HP and 700 TRQ numbers !



Overall I think I chose a pretty good combo of parts out, I was thinking it would maybe hit 805 -810 HP with the "super tune" on it.....I was not thinking it would go 830 HP before I really starting fine tuning it.....

Do you guys think the 34 degree timing would be optimal on my engine?


Is that something I should just keep at the 34 as that seems to make good HP / TRQ numbers?


I'm just trying to figure out what stuff we can try on the chassis dyno.

where should af ratio be?

where should af ratio be?

With a wide band O2 sensor it should be in the 12.6:1 to 13:1 range. When I chassis dynoed my car I tuned it from 14:1 down to 13:1 by increasing the front and rear jets from 92's up to 95's with a 1050 Dominator. I believe if I had tuned it down to 12.6:1 it would have made even more power.

Again NICE numbers Dave! I'm hoping that in the future (2 to 3 years) I'll be upgrading to A460 heads!

I have a really cool video clip of the 521 "in the works" right now....



I hope to have it posted here in a few days.....


Thanks to the guys on this website who have helped me out with this build over the last year.....I think I researched just about every aspect of the build with you guys!


The engine build has attained some REALLY good HP / TRQ results and getting "thumbsup" from you guys really means a lot to me !


I will keep you posted on the 521's track times once I get her out....

OldSchoolRacer,

Those TFS A-460 heads should not require any more than 34 degrees timing. We've run them at 32/33 degrees in some engines and just a touch more in other A-460 headed engines. If the engine will "take" more than 34 degrees timing,,,, then there's another reason there somewhere.

The A/F ratio needs to be around 12.5 to 13.0 like what Damon said. The spark plugs are the final word. You need to be reading them.

I also noticed the water temperature is a little too low and the BSFC numbers are a little too high. Ideally they should be around .370 to .430. Somewhere in that range.

Hope this helps,

Sounds good Charlie! It sounds like with some changes in tuning my HP / TRQ numbers could even be better?


What do you think the engine would make HP / TRQ wise with tuning being "right on" .......And, do you think the 6800 RPM limit I was spinning her to was a "good descision" or could I go 7000 RPM with any issues or would that be too much a gamble?





Thanks.....

The torque numbers shouldn't change that much. The horsepower should probally go up to around 850 or so. On the SuperFlow dyno, when you see peak torque, then peak ME% (mechanical efficient) should also occur at about the same rpm level.

As long as the oil pressure is good, spinning it to 7000 on the dyno isn't going to hurt a thing. It's certainly not a gamble.

You may want to call your carburator guy and FAX him these numbers. He should be able to give you some tuning advice over the phone. I think we'd like to see a better fuel curve and I may be wrong, but I'd give it some more jet and I'd open up the intermediate and high speed air bleeds some also. We want to see a slightly lower BSFC#'s and then also a richer A/F ratio.

Thanks, I was not expecting to hit 830 HP with this engine...


It was easy to see that we could have made more power if we could spin it higher.......I know I could have took it a little higher in rpm's but, I wanted to keep it safer and stay at 6800 as a max.....


I do have the new TFS single 4 - V intake ( very tall one ) and we where wondering if the older version of the TFS A-460 intake ( shorter one ) would have changed numbers much?
IMO, a properly ported/spacered old manifold would make more tq [on this size engine] and probley more hp .

OldSchoolRacer,

Those TFS A-460 heads should not require any more than 34 degrees timing. We've run them at 32/33 degrees in some engines and just a touch more in other A-460 headed engines. If the engine will "take" more than 34 degrees timing,,,, then there's another reason there somewhere.

The A/F ratio needs to be around 12.5 to 13.0 like what Damon said. The spark plugs are the final word. You need to be reading them.

I also noticed the water temperature is a little too low and the BSFC numbers are a little too high. Ideally they should be around .370 to .430. Somewhere in that range.

Hope this helps,
Doug's 598" made best power at 31.5* . My 605 made best power at 30* . Could the engine want one or two more* in the car....sure....the dyno and going down the track aint the same thing .
Required timing is a function of compression ratio , dome ht/shape , combustion chamber shape/condition and other stuff .
I always wondered why the "C" heads wanted more timing than the "A" stuff....considering the real cool chamber they have . I took a hard look at the "C" thing one day and it hit me.....the spark plug is much lower in the chamber that the "A"s.......so that is another factor.

Ok, that sounds great !


I will now know what kind of timing and tuning this engine will be looking for.....


Is there any tuning help I can get from a wide band O2, EGT or AFR system out there?

bump