C-6 Transmission I.D. and rebuild questions.(maybe sticky?) [Archive] - 460 Ford Forum

: C-6 Transmission I.D. and rebuild questions.(maybe sticky?)


Gearhead559
09-23-2007, 11:09 PM
this top post will get added to as the more info i come across, with internal mods, part numbers and so on. Enjoy.

long tail , short tail...

where too look up years and what not?

I wanna lay down some base idea's on this transmission and its parts and what we have done too make them work!

I have two different C-6 tranmissions sitting here. One seem to have a longer extension housing, and the odd side mount setup.

Ill post some pics of both tranmission's

transmissions
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y196/gearhead559/100_1784.jpg

tails
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y196/gearhead559/100_1785.jpg

tail one
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y196/gearhead559/100_1786.jpg

tail 2
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y196/gearhead559/100_1787.jpg

i just too make sure i can swap internal's and output shaft's and housings

heres a good readup on rollerizing a C-6
http://www.460ford.com/forum/showthread.php?t=105057

and a build up on a Big C-6 with trans brake or manual valve body. (fixxed)
http://www.460ford.com/forum/showthread.php?t=105603

5 clutch drum setup with pics and info (thanks greg)
http://www.460ford.com/forum/showthread.php?t=121505&highlight=clutch+drum+setup

TCI trans brake fix pre frank!
If it's a TCI I have a fix for it as the problem is the 2 checkball slots in the lower half of the valvebody are too large and too long and the checkball cannot find there seats in the spacer plate. there should be 2- 1/4" steel checkball ,one in each slot . you need to fill these slots with JB WEld or another good 2 part epoxy , then using the spacer plate as a pattern mark the 4 checkball seats in the epoxy - using a 9/32" drill bit drill 4 holes in the epoxy approximately 9/32" deep at the 4 marked spots, then using the drillbit router a new checkball slot in the epoxy , make sure the checkballs will roll free from one end to the other in both slots - install the spacerplate and check to make sure the checkballs will roll from one end of the slot to the other and not over shoot there intended seat, the holes in the spacerplate should be 7/32" for the High checkball and 5/32" for the low checkball . In between the lower half of the valvebody and the spacerplate there should be a gasket ,if there is not make one out of .005" gasket material, Torque all Valvebody bolts to 55 inch/lb's
Frank
manual and trans brake for tci info!
Okay now , Who Manual as if it's a Tci for the Manual you need to modify the 2nd gear servo and plug the servo vent and for the TCI brake VB your have to run the servo unmodified and the vent hole open


im putting this here, just incase someone dont click the link and all the info is in one thread!
C6 trans build for transbrake or manual valvebody
This is what I do aC-6 build and it seems to give good durability

- Low /reverse Clutch
- piston use the old style with the 24 return springs and the check ball , locate check ball at 12 o'clock (these springs have a free length of 1.070" as opposed to the high/reverse free length of 1.400"
- fibre's & steels , I prefer red alto's and kolenes but the stock clutches hold up well, If your trans has a waveplate discard it . I like to have a min of 5 fibres and steels set at .060 clearance ( .012 per fibre and steel) . the pressure plate may need a step machined in the out edge twice as thick as the snapring to aid in installation of the snapring, use a magnet base dail indicator mounted to the rear sprag race to check clearance- air check
- rear planetary hub use the one with the 1" long splines Part# for the hub F81Z-7D164-AA
- rear planetary- preferred is a 4 pinion
- Forward clutch - prefer red alto's and kolenes,and use the new style drum (new style has a wave plate, 5 & 5 here plus the wave plate .040-.050 clearance, the pressure may need a step machined in it for the snapring or you can use a second internal pressure plate as the outer , make sure you have the right forward ringgear assemble . the new style drum has a .400 deep torrington pocket were as the old style only had a .330 deep pocket and the ringgear asembles are different the new style has longer splines on the outside and the hub is different also. a missmatch of parts here will raise havoc with end play , the planetary's are the same 3 pinion, the reason for using the wave in the forward is that with racing line pressures and no waveplate it tends to snap the end of the drum off at the snapring groove after a period of time .In my max effort trannies I leave out the wave and contend with the drum breaking if and when it happens , ussally I just put an new drum in each year

2nd gear - "R" servo and an "E" lever and the toughest spring I have , Band I been getting good service out of the 2 1/2 " flex band kevlar lined

- High/reverse drum , 5 clutch drum preferred, but the stock 3 clutch drum can give good service if modified by cutting a new snap ring groove . there is 2 alternatives here depending on which drum you have as some drums have a longer spline than others the ones with the long spline an new 1/8" groove is to be machined in the drum at .565 from the bottom of the original to the top of the new groove this will allow you to use one of the stock selective snap rings to achieve a clearance of of .012 - .013 per fibre & steel and using alto pt# 026757HP kit you can install 6 fibre's and 6 steels witha clearance of .072-.078 (note Alto's recommended clearance with this kit is way to tight) with the shorter splined drum you machine a new snap ring 11/8" groove in at .400 up from 5the bottom of the original groove to the top of the new groove and then step cut the pressure plate approx .165 " to allow snap ring installation and removal. With this mod the drum will hold 5 x 5 standard red alto's and kolene steels . another drum mod to do is drill a series of 1/8" holes into the perimeter of the drum in a zig-zag pattern were the steels engage in the drum , this ads in letting the oil out of the drum a cools the clutches by letting more oil flow through between the clutches , also fill all spring pockets in the piston with springs.
-pump sealing rings , get and use teflon sealing rings as they last a lot longer than the cast rings and they do not wear the drum
- set trans end play at .020-.045"
- and adjust the band , tighten to 120 inlbs and back of 1 1/2 turns and tighten lock nut


any Questions email me at fmerkl@eidnet.org or call 403-793-5412




so how do we id them? so i can clean them off and check?

are there any case mods? I plan on doing this over winter. so i can be ready come next year! i do have a c-4 sitting here and the input adapter. but its seems it take a lot more money to build the c-4 too take the abuse i wanna put thru it. and the internals seem to be smaller and light, but just dont look as strong!IMO.

reading will best serve you here. clicking the links and reading this thread can help on tons of stuff.

Gearhead559
09-24-2007, 01:03 AM
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y196/gearhead559/c6exp.gif


Okay Guy's finally got around to posting pic's of how to check clutch pack clearances
http://img2.putfile.com/thumb/2/3621524783.jpg (http://www.putfile.com/pic.php?img=7630146)
Checking low/reverse min .060 with 5 clutches max.080
http://img2.putfile.com/thumb/2/3621524613.jpg (http://www.putfile.com/pic.php?img=7630142)
Checking High/reverse .012-.014 per clutch and steel ie;5clutches .060-.070 , checking using stator support to pressure check
http://img2.putfile.com/thumb/2/3621524656.jpg (http://www.putfile.com/pic.php?img=7630141)
forward clutch ,checking using stator support for pressure checking .040-.050 with 4 clutches and wave installed or .050-.060 5 clutches and NO wave plate
http://img2.putfile.com/thumb/2/3621524669.jpg (http://www.putfile.com/pic.php?img=7630143)
Checking for clearance on the high/reverse clutch pack for the forward drum there must be clearance at the x for the forward drum , CJ drum shown that has had a new snapring groove so it will hold 6 standard clutches and steels, pressure plate has been step cut for clearance, notice identification groove in drive lugs
http://img2.putfile.com/thumb/2/3621524687.jpg (http://www.putfile.com/pic.php?img=7630144)
checking stack height on forward planetary for forward drum , on a drum with .330 pocket measurement should be .335-.345. on a newwer .400 pocket drum .405-.415
http://img2.putfile.com/thumb/2/3621524649.jpg (http://www.putfile.com/pic.php?img=7630145)
new style .400 pocket left, right old style .330 pocket stack height notice ident ridge at X
Frank
if I have you totally confused just call me 403-793-5412

I guess I should add when using the stator support for pressure checking clearances use your old cast sealing rings and when you assemble the trans using teflon sealing rings pack the sealing ring grooves first with Vasoline then put the teflons in the grooves as in will hold the teflons in the bottom of the groove . Also if you are just using a shift kit in your C6 Don't use the teflon sealing rings use the stock cast ones as most shift kits don't bump the line pressure up enough to warrent using them. also after you have the trans assembled and before you put the valvebody on ,pressure check the trans to make sure all the clutches apply and with the teflon's you will have to fill the ports with trans fluid several times and air check to hear them apply . PS ,Vasoline is the best assemble lube for a trans -use it on the seals when installing the pistons in the drums and the case -for holding the torringtons and thrust washers in place on assemble

Gearhead559
09-24-2007, 01:06 AM
i have the one drum that will hold 5 clutchs with the wave plate removed!
one less part i need!
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y196/gearhead559/C-6%20pics/102_2559.jpg

frank is this the right pick up tube i need?
tci pickup for there extra deep pan
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y196/gearhead559/C-6%20pics/102_2562.jpg
its the one that came with my pan!


now i plan on doing a complete build thread on this, and this is just a information gathering thread at this point!
So lets I.D. some of the parts frank is talking about!

Reverse Planetary carrier (sitting in it's hub)
4 pinion
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y196/gearhead559/C-6%20pics/100_2053.jpg

3 pinion
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y196/gearhead559/C-6%20pics/100_2054.jpg

Low Reverse Clutch piston (the 2 different ones i have found so far)
Old style piston(the one you should use)
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y196/gearhead559/C-6%20pics/100_2051.jpg
notice the check ball!
old style piston springs and retainer
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y196/gearhead559/C-6%20pics/100_2061.jpg
there are more springs then that!

and this is where the check ball should in when piston is installed!
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y196/gearhead559/C-6%20pics/100_2060.jpg
12 o'clock, valve body is too the bottom pf pic!

newer style piston
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y196/gearhead559/C-6%20pics/100_2052.jpg
notice lack of check ball!

and its spring assembly
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y196/gearhead559/C-6%20pics/100_2057.jpg

Frank Merkl
09-24-2007, 07:08 PM
The trans with the oddball mount is a Lincoln trans (long tail shaft ) don't use it ,but it will be a good parts trans, it will probably have some good parts in it ,ie 5 clutch high/reverse drum
Frank

Gearhead559
09-24-2007, 08:17 PM
frank, can i use the front half of the case from the lincoln trans?

just use my tail shaft and housing? and some internals from it!

Frank Merkl
09-24-2007, 10:04 PM
yes ,just swap out the output shaft and tail housing
Frank

Gearhead559
09-30-2007, 09:31 PM
sweet..im going to start taking apart the 3 c-6s i have sitting here.

i have the 2 BB ones and a sb one. (just using the sb 1 too nab parts if need be!)

Gearhead559
10-01-2007, 08:49 AM
more questions..

what about the sprag? should i go ahead and get a heavy duty sprag upgrade kit?

And as far as band's go, is there a flew and rigid band? or just a flex band.

all my exploded veiws are only showing 1 band? wtf?

Gearhead559
10-01-2007, 08:58 AM
i mean flex band..looks like it should be a rigid band????

psquare75
10-01-2007, 09:50 AM
The trans with the oddball mount is a Lincoln trans (long tail shaft ) don't use it ,but it will be a good parts trans, it will probably have some good parts in it ,ie 5 clutch high/reverse drum
Frank

That tranny is exactly what's in my truck from a 78 Town Car.. I just made some spacer blocks for the crossmember and drilled different frame holes.

:)

Gearhead559
10-02-2007, 12:05 AM
how do i tell what years they are? :?:

need to know the year before i can order parts

s_stang
10-02-2007, 01:05 AM
Here is a link to a page with case part numbers and description..

http://home.teleport.com/~tsco/catalog/fd_c6f/fdc6f_f.htm#default

Not sure it that will help?

Frank Merkl
10-02-2007, 10:46 PM
Gearhead , first Question how much hp ,better yet just Ph me at 403-793-5412 (evenings)and I'll set you staight on what you have to build
Frank

Gearhead559
10-03-2007, 06:50 PM
Gearhead , first Question how much hp ,better yet just Ph me at 403-793-5412 (evenings)and I'll set you staight on what you have to build
Frank

this may be a dumb question, but what time zone are you in? so i know what time i need to call...lol

Frank Merkl
10-04-2007, 09:09 PM
Mountian Daylight saving time

Broncman
10-10-2007, 09:58 PM
Good thread! I am in the middle of building my towing C6. I have collected 5 Big Block C6's from different vehicles.

Any major differences in the cases ? Some have the ribs and some do not..
I have several servo covers but all the same levers..

What do we look for to get the good stuff?
What apps had the most clutches etc?

Gearhead559
10-11-2007, 04:16 PM
i just pulled apart my lincoln c-6 donor(i needed the case) and found a c7/c8 valve body that frank needs to build my trans brake valve body. i got a 4 pinion rear planet!
but this one only had a 3 clutch front drum! :?:

the sb-6 i took apart yesterday didnt provide and good stuff.(its a 80 model trans!


i still have to pull my trans back out of my car, and see what all it will provide!

Gearhead559
10-15-2007, 07:10 PM
now i plan on doing a complete build thread on this, and this is just a information gathering thread at this point!
So lets I.D. some of the parts frank is talking about!

Reverse Planetary carrier (sitting in it's hub)
4 pinion
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y196/gearhead559/C-6%20pics/100_2053.jpg

3 pinion
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y196/gearhead559/C-6%20pics/100_2054.jpg

Low Reverse Clutch piston (the 2 different ones i have found so far)
Old style piston(the one you should use)
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y196/gearhead559/C-6%20pics/100_2051.jpg
notice the check ball!
old style piston springs and retainer
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y196/gearhead559/C-6%20pics/100_2061.jpg
there are more springs then that!

and this is where the check ball should in when piston is installed!
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y196/gearhead559/C-6%20pics/100_2060.jpg
12 o'clock, valve body is too the bottom pf pic!

newer style piston
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y196/gearhead559/C-6%20pics/100_2052.jpg
notice lack of check ball!

and its spring assembly
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y196/gearhead559/C-6%20pics/100_2057.jpg



Keep in mind, i have never do this before, so if i mess up its ok!

Frank Merkl
10-15-2007, 07:21 PM
The factory installed the piston with the check ball at the 6'oclock position ,this was to take the clunk out of(the driveline) firing the motor up and pulling it in reverse on high idle(as the oil would drain out of the low piston over night ) on perf builds put the check ball at 12 o'clock, must people don't care if their race car clunks the driveline when they put it in reverse
Frank

Gearhead559
10-15-2007, 07:33 PM
i noticed that too (from the manual) . plus this one was at 6 o'clock.

i just need to get me a clutch kit , band , r servo , and a valve body from you!

frank is there any case mods that need done?

Frank Merkl
10-16-2007, 09:20 PM
No mod's neccesary to the case. except cut off the 2 ears that stick out on the bellhousing (interfears with some headers) ,put the breather on the top of the case and tap 1/8 pipe and put a barb fitting for a vent hose
Frank

Gearhead559
10-20-2007, 10:16 PM
frank , do you have a ford part # for the hewavy duty low reverse hub(the one with the 1" splines)?

Frank Merkl
10-21-2007, 02:05 PM
Part# for the hub F81Z-7D164-AA
Frank

Gearhead559
12-14-2007, 06:08 AM
im telling you, we should sticky this here! these questions keep getting asked!

Ditch Baby
12-17-2007, 10:50 PM
im going to throw my noob question in here....



Got a '79 F150 with the C6... i want it to handle some good power and abuse. I want to get the motor rebuilt to around 500hp/700ft lbs at the MOST... thats if i feel like getting frisky, but i bet it will be more around the 400hp/600ft lbs

What do you do to these trannies to beef them up?? Ive seen re-build kits out there but come up short when looking around for kits to beef these things up.


and what makes a beefy tranny beefy???

Frank Merkl
12-18-2007, 12:03 AM
You have the Beef!, "79 F150 460 auto ,one of the fastest trucks ever produced. Had a customer back in '79 bought a new F150 Lariet,on the" PDI " I change the lower crank sprocket , he drove it to the race track with 200 miles on it and it ran 13.60's with a set of used oval track tires
Frank

Gearhead559
12-18-2007, 06:39 AM
im going to throw my noob question in here....



Got a '79 F150 with the C6... i want it to handle some good power and abuse. I want to get the motor rebuilt to around 500hp/700ft lbs at the MOST... thats if i feel like getting frisky, but i bet it will be more around the 400hp/600ft lbs

What do you do to these trannies to beef them up?? Ive seen re-build kits out there but come up short when looking around for kits to beef these things up.


and what makes a beefy tranny beefy???
follow the links i have posted in this thread. i think they are in the top post! even stock, your c-6 will handle what your going to throw at it!

In4x4guy
12-18-2007, 02:56 PM
what is the best assembly/modification manual for the C6? thanks

Ditch Baby
12-18-2007, 03:43 PM
You have the Beef!, "79 F150 460 auto ,one of the fastest trucks ever produced. Had a customer back in '79 bought a new F150 Lariet,on the" PDI " I change the lower crank sprocket , he drove it to the race track with 200 miles on it and it ran 13.60's with a set of used oval track tires
Frank


I should have stated its 4wd with 38.5 TSLs on it hahaha.


Ill keep searching i found much info after i posted that

bigblockjohn
12-27-2007, 01:45 PM
hi there
i have a lincoln /460 c6 and a fe 428 c6 can i swap the tail shafts over?
thay look close but i dont want to strip then down and find thay dont fit many thanks...460 and c6 to go in my 94 mustang soon....

Gearhead559
12-27-2007, 01:58 PM
yes they swap out just fine! you need the tail house and output shaft. just got done swapping mine over!

bigblockjohn
12-27-2007, 02:06 PM
many thanks ill post some pics of the opp

Gearhead559
12-31-2007, 10:16 AM
what is the best assembly/modification manual for the C6? thanks
im using a plain jane rebuild manual ! i have the motor books and some other reference books . im going with franks build up cause it has proven itself! i did a plain rebuild on a sb c-6 back in trans class at northwestern and it worked great! so im hoping to have this done by summer.(if funds allow it) but with my sons custody case still being ongoing, my attorny is sucking up alot of my race car funds!

Frank Merkl
12-31-2007, 07:17 PM
Gearhead way to go ! send me the C8AP/C7AP Valvebody I'll build you a trans brake Vb and put it on the shelf until you can afford it
PS I'll monitor this thread ,so if anybody has any C6 questions I'll answer then here
Frank
and If you have any Questions that need a quick answer or are having trouble assembling your C6 just call me at 403-793-5412 between 8am&11pm MST I'd like to leave the PG's for the Bowtie Boys!

bigblockjohn
01-01-2008, 12:41 PM
i have removed the rear outer casing ,,,,how does the outputshaft come out !!!thanks

Frank Merkl
01-01-2008, 01:07 PM
you have to disassemble the trans down to the rear output shaft hub ,there is a snapring there, look at the above exploded view
Frank

Bluemule
01-01-2008, 06:48 PM
Hi Frank just reading this post. I have a Lincoln C6 long tailshaft core in the garage , was your reason for not using the long tailshaft just because of the mount as I plan to use a mid plate to mount with the motor plate? Also I was trying to decide on saving the money for a PA sc C4 trans instead of using the C6 but I'm still up in the air on it due to funds etc. I'm trying to map this build out and put a little into at a time as I'm in the same boat as Gearhead with custody issues. I'm just tired of seeing the car sit in my garage and not doing anything to it. I have 0 experience with trans rebuilds but if it can be done with a manual and your guy's great help , I'm not afraid to try. I'm building a fox stang with the usual stroker BBF 9 in , ladderbars , 28 x 13 Firestones. I know the car will weight less than 3000lbs. I'm hoping to eventually run solidly into the 9s maybe faster as the budget allows. Do you think I should take on the C6 build up?

Gearhead559
01-02-2008, 12:36 AM
forget the pa super comp trans. it cost 2000 dollars. plus a 300-400 bell. and a c-4 converter. you can use the c-6 converter with a c-4(i have the pa adapter) but ill have around 1000 or so in this c-6 using stock parts. roller bearings cost me under 40 bucks. the heavy duty rear hub is 30. clutchs and steels around 250-300. seals gaskets etc 40-50. and one of franks valve bodys.(which i need to make sure is the correct one!! :cry: ) only thing i need now is the machine work done and im figuring that should be no more then 100! plus if you rollerize it franks way, its full roller. the pa super comp is not! it only has 4-5 rollers in it! and a good c-4 will need all 12 in it to hold up to what i plan on doing. id rather refresh every winter then rebuild and replace parts in a c-4 after a few pass's and street abuse! i already have a billet c-6 converter with plate, 4800 stall! and my c-6 has the deep tci pan already. which is only about 130 or so depending on where you get one. and maybe before i build my turbo terror 385,ill upgrade to the hardened input shaft and billet front drum! which im sure the c-4 wont hold up to!

Gearhead559
01-02-2008, 12:39 AM
Gearhead way to go ! send me the C8AP/C7AP Valvebody I'll build you a trans brake Vb and put it on the shelf until you can afford it
PS I'll monitor this thread ,so if anybody has any C6 questions I'll answer then here
Frank
and If you have any Questions that need a quick answer or are having trouble assembling your C6 just call me at 403-793-5412 between 8am&11pm MST I'd like to leave the PG's for the Bowtie Boys!


well frank then heres my question to make sure i have the correct one! on the filetr side i have three that start off with the c8 numbers. but on the valving side they are d2 numbers. im thinking these are not what you need, but it doesnt hurt to ask at this point. and if you can do that for me , id love you forever!

p.s i new this thread was worth the effort !

Gearhead559
01-02-2008, 12:40 AM
and guys i plan on doing a step by step rebuild with this with pics for all the do-it -your selfers out there like me! but ill make sure the trans works right before i make/post that thread. :lol:

Frank Merkl
01-02-2008, 06:34 PM
Gearhead , I can make a transbrake out of the D2AP upper/C7AP lower it's just that you will have to be super careful on postioning the valvebody in the case ( not that hard ) When I find my pic's in my computer of the proper way to check clutch pack clearances using a magnetic base dial indicator I post them
Frank

Gearhead559
01-03-2008, 12:47 AM
where do i need to ship it! ill keep looking for the other ones aswell!

Frank Merkl
01-03-2008, 01:02 PM
Gearhead, Ship valvebodiesto me at
Frank Merkl
Box 493
Brooks , Alberta
T1R1B5

Ship using USPS parcel post
make sure wrap the Vb in a couple of rags, (post office doesn't like any oil leaking from packages)double bag in ziplocks and put it in a strong cardboard box
Frank

In4x4guy
01-03-2008, 03:47 PM
frank do you use the same R servo and E lever in the transmissions you build for mud boggers? what is the ratio on a "K" lever?

Gearhead559
01-03-2008, 08:14 PM
lever ratios are posted in one of the links in the top post!

Frank Merkl
01-03-2008, 11:30 PM
a K lever is the worst ratio lever to run 1.60
Frank

In4x4guy
01-04-2008, 06:33 AM
Gearhead the ratio for a "K" lever was not listed. there is also a RR lever which is suppose to have a 2.82 ratio it seems most truck c-6's have a a code lever. but i found a "E" lever and a c7/c8 valve body in a old c6 for a fe last week!

Gearhead559
01-04-2008, 01:58 PM
rr is after market! and the k is a later model one. the ones frank has listed are from a older fomoco repair manual! all the later model stuff doesnt do much good!

Frank Merkl
02-06-2008, 09:31 PM
Okay Guy's finally got around to posting pic's of how to check clutch pack clearances
http://img2.putfile.com/thumb/2/3621524783.jpg (http://www.putfile.com/pic.php?img=7630146)
Checking low/reverse min .060 with 5 clutches max.080
http://img2.putfile.com/thumb/2/3621524613.jpg (http://www.putfile.com/pic.php?img=7630142)
Checking High/reverse .012-.014 per clutch and steel ie;5clutches .060-.070 , checking using stator support to pressure check
http://img2.putfile.com/thumb/2/3621524656.jpg (http://www.putfile.com/pic.php?img=7630141)
forward clutch ,checking using stator support for pressure checking .040-.050 with 4 clutches and wave installed or .050-.060 5 clutches and NO wave plate
http://img2.putfile.com/thumb/2/3621524669.jpg (http://www.putfile.com/pic.php?img=7630143)
Checking for clearance on the high/reverse clutch pack for the forward drum there must be clearance at the x for the forward drum , CJ drum shown that has had a new snapring groove so it will hold 6 standard clutches and steels, pressure plate has been step cut for clearance, notice identification groove in drive lugs
http://img2.putfile.com/thumb/2/3621524687.jpg (http://www.putfile.com/pic.php?img=7630144)
checking stack height on forward planetary for forward drum , on a drum with .330 pocket measurement should be .335-.345. on a newwer .400 pocket drum .405-.415
http://img2.putfile.com/thumb/2/3621524649.jpg (http://www.putfile.com/pic.php?img=7630145)
new style .400 pocket left, right old style .330 pocket stack height notice ident ridge at X
Frank
if I have you totally confused just call me 403-793-5412

Frank Merkl
02-06-2008, 11:05 PM
I guess I should add when using the stator support for pressure checking clearances use your old cast sealing rings and when you assemble the trans using teflon sealing rings pack the sealing ring grooves first with Vasoline then put the teflons in the grooves as in will hold the teflons in the bottom of the groove . Also if you are just using a shift kit in your C6 Don't use the teflon sealing rings use the stock cast ones as most shift kits don't bump the line pressure up enough to warrent using them. also after you have the trans assembled and before you put the valvebody on ,pressure check the trans to make sure all the clutches apply and with the teflon's you will have to fill the ports with trans fluid several times and air check to hear them apply . PS ,Vasoline is the best assemble lube for a trans -use it on the seals when installing the pistons in the drums and the case -for holding the torringtons and thrust washers in place on assemble
Frank

Gearhead559
02-07-2008, 10:15 PM
just what we needed here frank! get my valve body yet?

Frank Merkl
02-08-2008, 12:21 AM
not yet ,usps takes 10-12 bussi days
frank

Frank Merkl
02-11-2008, 05:40 PM
Rob ,VB showed up today
Frank

Gearhead559
02-12-2008, 10:13 AM
great! so how do i pay you ? american cash? paypal?

how much turn around time?


just wondering may have the money sonner then later :wink:

46068gal
02-13-2008, 09:59 AM
Hi, I've read this thread and all the links but still can't see anything to ID the year of a transmission. Have i missed something?

Gearhead559
02-13-2008, 03:28 PM
Here is a link to a page with case part numbers and description..

http://home.teleport.com/~tsco/catalog/fd_c6f/fdc6f_f.htm#default

Not sure it that will help?

maybe you missed it

TheMachinist
02-13-2008, 06:34 PM
ok so i just bought 1970 long wheel-base ranger w a DIVE 460 w c-6, not sure what from im thinking a later 70s truck. ok so i have two questions.

one, ive never really used a ratchet shifter before (this truck has a b&m mega shifter) and im unsure of exactly how it works? and it seems to be somewhat difficult to shift from p to n to r to d. just takes more force than i think it should. and whats the deal w the reverse lockout?.

two, what can i do to this tranny and or rear set to increase the max speed per gear thus increasing the overall top speed of the truck...to say the 140 -160mph+ area

Gearhead559
02-13-2008, 07:00 PM
same shifter i have in my car.! only the car model. the cable could be pinched or melted causing it to be stiff! but i slam mine all the time. when i pull it back to 1 and it rachets from there. pulling up on the t handle should help with the reverse lockout and shifting to park and whatnot! just sit in it one night and play with it till you get it down pat! thats what i did.

only way to incease top speed would be to put taller tires on. lower # rear gears or a gear vendors over drive unit on the back of the trans.

wesperkins
03-05-2008, 09:47 AM
What is the length of the short tail housing? I just got a c6 out of a f150 ranger and am unsure of which tail housing it has. Does the long one have the side mount and the short one doesn't?

Thanks,
Wes

Gearhead559
03-05-2008, 10:38 AM
What is the length of the short tail housing? I just got a c6 out of a f150 ranger and am unsure of which tail housing it has. Does the long one have the side mount and the short one doesn't?

Thanks,
Wes yes that is it. long has the funny mount. and the short one has a normal mount. hope this helps

wesperkins
03-05-2008, 10:53 PM
Yes that certainly does. I thought that was the case but just wanted to make sure that was what i had, and it is. Just another question... and i am sure that i know the answer is yes, but will C6 will be plenty strong enough in my fox mustang without changing anything? I only plan on doing a full manual valve body and 35-3800 stall converter. I already have examined the fluid and the contents of the pan and everything looks good. It already has a hardened input shaft and we reckon that it was rebuilt not long ago because the input shaft looks perfect and there isn't any sign of bearing wear, plus the original torque converter looked fresh. front and rear seals also are good with no deterioration to speak of. this is going behind a mild engine build (street/strip being about 98% strip)

.030 over D1 block
15cc dcup KB hypers
new CJ/Truck rods
stock crank
Lunati 61605 cam (241/249@.050 dur., .582/.600 lift, 110sep/106 center)
Miller 1.8 roller rockers
home ported D0VE heads with 2.19/1.76 valves and comp 930-16 dual springs
probably stealth intake and 850dp Holley

Is there anything you guys would recommend that i should do? Right now i am waiting to build back up funds for the Block and Head machine work and am trying to figure if i need to do anything to the tranny while i am at it. The rear (for now) is going to be a bone stock 8.8 with Limited slip and 3.73 gear set, and girdle.

Gearhead559
03-06-2008, 07:28 AM
as you my have read, frank has went 8.00 on a stock input shaft. and it would be penlty strong in stock form for what your tryying to do.depending on how many clutchs are in each pack. but make sure you put a nice big cooler on it that can get penlty of air across it.overheating is the number one cause of trans failure. and stall converters just build more heat.

hotrodder
03-25-2008, 07:58 AM
Hi, just took my new front engine dragster out for its first outing and i have a bit of a problem with 1st gear and 3rd gear, im hoping you can help. Its a (supposedly) rebuilt C6 with a reverse manual valve body and a transbrake (transbrake isnt connected at all yet), The Convertor is a 4600 stall, and the motor is a 528 stroker with Edelbrock RPM CJ heads, a holley 950 and a pretty mild solid flat cam (245/255, 590/615, 110 Lsa if i remember correct). Rear axle ratio is 3.89 and the rear slicks are 31" tall.

1st gear:

ok from standing i have to put on a fair few revs before the car wants to move in first gear - feels like the brake's are on when it is moving too... If i shift into 2nd gear the car moves nicely with virtually no revs. Over the weekend the car ground to a holt in first and i couldnt get it to move, so i shifted to 2nd and ran it in 2nd. We adjusted the brake band and it seemed better but not correct... we dont really know much about this sort of thing.

3rd gear: With the car up on stands i can go through 1st, 2nd and 3rd no problem.... but when im going down the track i cant seem to shift to 3rd. I make the shift but not a lot seems to happen... in eliminations i stuck with it in 2nd, running a 12.68 @ 109.67mph. I kept the RPMs real high (and since have been pee'd off with myself about it as i cant afford to blow it up!).

Any help / advice would be appreciated

Frank Merkl
03-25-2008, 12:43 PM
Who's Valvebody , sounds like a TCI with a Tbrake it can be fixed just that TCI doesn't know how
Frank

hotrodder
03-25-2008, 01:29 PM
Yeah, im 99% sure it is a TCI transbrake... as with most of my stuff i managed to get it used and it was a "bargain" for me in the uk, as bringing stuff over (even with the great exchange rate) is expensive. Seems like you have heard these symptoms before... any advice would be gratefully recieved... i have another valve body that we could maybe drop in but ideally id like to keep the transbrake

Frank Merkl
03-25-2008, 02:26 PM
If it's a TCI I have a fix for it as the problem is the 2 checkball slots in the lower half of the valvebody are too large and too long and the checkball cannot find there seats in the spacer plate. there should be 2- 1/4" steel checkball ,one in each slot . you need to fill these slots with JB WEld or another good 2 part epoxy , then using the spacer plate as a pattern mark the 4 checkball seats in the epoxy - using a 9/32" drill bit drill 4 holes in the epoxy approximately 9/32" deep at the 4 marked spots, then using the drillbit router a new checkball slot in the epoxy , make sure the checkballs will roll free from one end to the other in both slots - install the spacerplate and check to make sure the checkballs will roll from one end of the slot to the other and not over shoot there intended seat, the holes in the spacerplate should be 7/32" for the High checkball and 5/32" for the low checkball . In between the lower half of the valvebody and the spacerplate there should be a gasket ,if there is not make one out of .005" gasket material, Torque all Valvebody bolts to 55 inch/lb's
Frank

hotrodder
03-26-2008, 04:02 AM
Thanks for the advice... i think what i might do for now is to change my VB to a spare manual valve body that i have (no transbrake) and see how we get on... im not using the transbrake at the moment so maybe i can leave that for now and re-work in the future.

Frank Merkl
03-26-2008, 10:31 AM
Okay now , Who Manual as if it's a Tci for the Manual you need to modify the 2nd gear servo and plug the servo vent and for the TCI brake VB your have to run the servo unmodified and the vent hole open
Frank

Gearhead559
04-03-2008, 07:14 PM
heres some pics
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y196/gearhead559/C-6%20pics/100_2359.jpg
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y196/gearhead559/C-6%20pics/100_2358.jpg
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y196/gearhead559/C-6%20pics/100_2357.jpg
ill be doing a step by step build on this trans for everyone to see with franks mods and whatnot. color pics and all. i just need to get a few more parts and due to moneys issue, lord knows how long that will take. for now ill be doing it none roller other then the #9 thrust washer will have the roller bearing.

Frank Merkl
04-03-2008, 08:20 PM
So theVb arrived safe and sound?
Frank

Gearhead559
04-03-2008, 08:50 PM
got here yesterday. thanks a million man. ill take care of you :wink:

Frank Merkl
04-23-2008, 09:51 PM
for Shane , floor shift (console) C6 lever
http://img2.putfile.com/thumb/4/11322440463.jpg (http://www.putfile.com/pic/8035866)
Frank

FORD FANATIC
04-27-2008, 11:01 PM
I have a question on the teflon sealing rings. We switched from the cast iron rings to the teflon. We coated the teflon sealing rings with assembly grease to install. We tried filling the port with trans fluid several times and air checking with no luck. So we pulled it back apart and checked to make sure we didn't pinch a seal putting it together and everything looks fine. We air checked the drum while it was out and it checked out fine. So we put it back together and tried air checking with the fluid first with the same results. We talked it over and thought it was just the grease holding the seals and once the trans was up to temp it would wash the grease out and seal up fine, so we put the car back together. We tried it the first time last night and everything works except high gear. We ran it long enough to get the pan warm enough that you cant leave your hand lay on it and still no high gear. Any ideas?

Thanks in advance

Mark

Frank Merkl
04-27-2008, 11:31 PM
I always use Vasoline as assembly lube, first question do you have reverse? if so then you have a vb problem
Frank

FORD FANATIC
04-28-2008, 07:35 AM
Frank

Thanks for the speedy reply. Yes we do have reverse. The FWD drum is the one that wouldn't air test. I think the problem is in the governor. We just freshened a race only trans that had the governor removed, the support turned down and the distributor sleeve machined off down to the pin for the park lever. It had a TCI transbrake valve body. We are running a transgo stage 3/full manual forward shift valve body. The separator plate in the TCI V\B had the governor holes covered (if my memory is correct). Ours used a modified stock separator plate. We are planning to go to the brake V/B in the future so we went with the teflon seals, rollerized it, and lightened up the governor parts. Do you sell a kit to convert a valve body over to the transbrake that we can install? Sounds like TCI has some problems with theirs. We are going to pull the tail housing and distributer sleeve and plug the passages in the sleeve tonight and see if that fixes our problems for now.

Thanks again

Mark

That mustang of your's is awesome, are you running a power adder to go 8.00's?

Frank Merkl
04-28-2008, 12:12 PM
if you send me your TCI vb I can fix it for you ,or I can email you directions to fix it yourself
Frank

FORD FANATIC
04-28-2008, 09:15 PM
Frank

We plugged the governer sleeve and tried it out. It work's great. Thank you for the help. You saved us several hours labor, and a lot of frustration.

Thanks

Mark

Frank Merkl
04-28-2008, 10:19 PM
the fix is about 10 post back up this thread
Frank

FORD FANATIC
04-30-2008, 08:05 AM
I talked to Trans-go about blocking off the governor oil feed. They said no problem on a drag race only application, but not for a daily driver. He said the governor splashed oil back to the extension housing bushing and without it on a daily driver it may cause a failure. We hope to try it out this weekend, weather permitting :D :D

awfulaggravated
06-09-2008, 08:02 PM
i just pulled out a long c6 out of my 66 f100 i rebuilt a short housing c6 and had a great tool it was advd from badshoe productions , i had the portable dvd plugged in @my work bench and went step by step, i fabbed up a mount at work but ran into a problem, the driveshaft is about 5 1/2"to short, so i have to have one made,90.00 an hour, good luck with the build

Frank Merkl
06-16-2008, 09:21 PM
Well now that I have a Data logger on the car , I can tell you guy how fast My Transbrake valvebody releases it takes .015 of a second
and the Kid did good driving the car for the first time ! semi final sat nite inthe Quick 16 and semi final sunday in super pro
Frank

Gearhead559
06-18-2008, 12:22 PM
maybe a dumb question frank but is this a reverse manual?

just asking, cause i dont know :lol:

Frank Merkl
06-18-2008, 07:27 PM
yes!

kjett
06-23-2008, 06:28 PM
Frank,

Help me clear this up so I can get the right parts, cause I must be just plain dumb. When you say you recommend the R servo and E apply lever, what am I looking for? I know where the servo is, and I guess I need to pull it apart to see what it is, but what lever are you referring to? The one that is on the outside of the tranny that attaches to the shifter, or is it an internal lever that I am missing? I am going to run a budget built tranny this year to get the rest of the truck dialed in before I build a bigger motor and need ot upgrade the tranny anymore. This is in my 89 ranger bodied mud bogger with stock 460 D1 block bottom end, ported D3's, Comp cam, Stealth intake, 850DP carb, and Schoenfield upright headers. Nothing too crazy, so the tranny is a freshen up with Alto red clutches, with the 5 clutch upgrade and kevlar band. I am running a 3500 stall, and will be putting the Transgo 67-3 kit into the stock VB. I just need to make sure I have the right servo and make sure I am looking at the right lever.

Thanks for any help!

Karl

Frank Merkl
06-23-2008, 11:26 PM
the "E " lever is the 2nd gear apply lever use either a "E" or a" D"

kjett
06-24-2008, 09:40 PM
Is there a way to tell what it is by looking at it, like is it stamped with the letter code or is it a "you just know" sort of deal? I think I found where it is inside the tranny. I'll have to dig in there and see what it is this weekend.

Gearhead559
06-25-2008, 09:51 AM
the letter code will be on the lever. and if you need a e lever let me know i have a spare that i might be willing to part with

Gearhead559
06-28-2008, 07:51 PM
i have the one drum that will hold 5 clutchs with the wave plate removed!
one less part i need!
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y196/gearhead559/C-6%20pics/102_2559.jpg

frank is this the right pick up tube i need?

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y196/gearhead559/C-6%20pics/102_2562.jpg
its the one that came with my pan!

hotrodder
06-29-2008, 11:15 AM
Ok, we stripped out the C6 and found that there were problems with the transbrake valve body. We have now gone back to the original valve body that looks like a modified stock unit.

We also took the time to check out the clutches and all looked fine, the clutches looked like new with the manufacturers stamp still clearly visible on the faces.

We ran the car on stands and went through all gears with no problems, then we dropped it down and went for a small drive around the pits and were able to get all gears... Great we thought...

Got down to the line, went to burnout and the car started to burnout, then lost all drive. I tried all forwards and reverse gears and could get nothing. We towed back to the pits, got the car up on stands again, ran her and went through the gears fine, definately able to move the back wheels... we checked fluid levels and all seemed fine... Back to the startline and the same happened again... same story follows in the pits where all seemed fine. We decided to change out all the fluid and check for any signs of blockage in the screen or particles... no problems. Ran her again on stands, all was fine... so we gave her a few test "launches" in the pits... after a few we again lost all drive. We noticed that the transmission was extremely hot to the touch... you could barely touch it.


Were now trying to figure out this problem... we know very little about auto box's. We have been running the box without any kind of cooler - could this be our problem? We had figured that as were only doing 1/4 mile runs this would not be a problem? Could this be a torque convertor problem? Any advice at all would be appreciated! Many thanks!

Gearhead559
06-29-2008, 11:36 AM
NO COOLER! :shock: thats a big issue! auto box's hate heat!

billandlori
06-29-2008, 10:30 PM
Hi guys!!

This is a great thread. Much good info!

I rebuilt a 1977 Lincoln TC C-6 using the TCI heavy duty truck rebuild kit. Everything went together great and air checked good too. When it came time to do the VB I got one of the little reinforcement plates on wrong. I tuned it around the right way but it must have bent the one half of the VB. Put it all together and it slipped all through second gear.

I Pulled out the VB and replaced it with a complete TCI forward patern shift kit VB. It seems to work pretty good but the RPMs seem to flair between 2nd and 3rd. 1st to 2nd is nice and firm.

The big issue happened the other nite, had it out for a cruise and hopped on it pretty good on a back road. When I got home I went to shift into 1st to pull in the driveway and it stopped the car. WTF???

Tonight we went out for a drive and when I shifted into manual 1st the car went backwards. When I put it in drive it worked fine and shifted through all gears just fine. After a short drive, manual 1st worked fine.

I am really scratching my head on this one. :oops:

Any ideas would be appreciated. Thanks in advance guys :D

Frank Merkl
06-29-2008, 11:39 PM
Hot rodder you have to at least connect the front cooler line to the rear or the converter will just boil the oil!!!
billandlori the TCI VB is junk
Frank

hotrodder
06-30-2008, 01:23 AM
Thats what we have done, just run a piece of pipe from the front to the rear.

Frank Merkl
06-30-2008, 11:40 AM
hot rodder sounds like maybe the check ball is stuck in the stator support , take the line off the front and see if you have oil flow
Frank

kjett
06-30-2008, 06:46 PM
the letter code will be on the lever. and if you need a e lever let me know i have a spare that i might be willing to part with

I checked this weekend and I have an S servo, so I'll be ordering the right R servo soon enough. Can I just pull the valve body to get to the apply lever, or do I need to pull the whole tranny apart to get to it? It's in the truck right now, but the body is off the frame, so if need be I can drop it out and pull it apart, but would rather not do that if I can get away with it. I'm also asuming that since this is a 79 4x4 tranny that it more than likely didn't come with the e lever, so pm me what ya want for it. And whats a good price and place to get the R servo, from Frank I guess, or is it a local dealer item?

Gearhead559
06-30-2008, 06:52 PM
the letter code will be on the lever. and if you need a e lever let me know i have a spare that i might be willing to part with

I checked this weekend and I have an S servo, so I'll be ordering the right R servo soon enough. Can I just pull the valve body to get to the apply lever, or do I need to pull the whole tranny apart to get to it? It's in the truck right now, but the body is off the frame, so if need be I can drop it out and pull it apart, but would rather not do that if I can get away with it. I'm also asuming that since this is a 79 4x4 tranny that it more than likely didn't come with the e lever, so pm me what ya want for it.
you need to pull the trans. the pin for the lever comes out of the bell housing area! dont lose the plug that goes over the pin either.

you send me $20 and ill ship it ups so that way you have a tracking number for it! its the last spare i have.

billandlori
07-03-2008, 11:59 PM
OK Frank, thanks for the diagnosis!! :lol:

Now what??

Can the VB be fixed or??? Is there common issues with them or is it just poor quality workmanship?

Thanks again for the help!!

Frank Merkl
07-04-2008, 12:47 AM
Bill most of the VB's that guy's have brought me and Dyno tested don't work!!and they give a C6 a bad name !!
Frank

Frank Merkl
07-04-2008, 12:48 AM
PS , after farmings done for the year in Nov I'll be building VB's again
Frank

billandlori
07-04-2008, 01:00 AM
Would I be better getting a stock VB and sending it to, say, you?? :)

What do you charge for a VB rebuild? It is a mostly street driven car with occasional 1/4 mile and would like to maintain the automatic shifting (not full manual).

I would really like to get this thing working good and get some 1/4 mile times!!

Thanks for the help.

Bill

Frank Merkl
07-04-2008, 01:53 AM
Bill . you'd be better of with a shift kit call me and it's easy
Frank
403-793-5412

playhard557
07-04-2008, 04:22 AM
To add to the TCI VB horror stories.. I put the TCI manual reverse pattern non transbrake VB in a few months ago and finally got around to starting my truck last night on the jack stands. Reverse and 3rd(high) gear act like a transbrake; 1, 2, neutral and park operate okay.

I have the stock style intermediate servo and plugged the hole as directed by the TCI directions.

Frank thank you for all the helpful posts, do you or anyone on the board offer a manual VB with engine braking?

Frank Merkl
07-04-2008, 03:10 PM
I do but I won't be able to make you one until november after farming season
Frank

billandlori
07-05-2008, 11:04 AM
What is a good time to contact you Frank? I don't want to call at a bad time!!

Thanks,
Bill

Frank Merkl
07-05-2008, 12:21 PM
evenings and I'm up till midnite MDT, but skip 8-9 pm as I'm moving sprinklers then
403-793-5412
Frank

merlinbob57
07-27-2008, 03:22 PM
we had a conversation about my brake not holding after 3200 rpm about a month ago , the culprit was the alternator it appears , i switched to a 100 amp 1 wire when i installed the new motor and the problem deminished , i assume the msd box was gobling all the available current with the stock style alternator ,my 533" motor has alluminium rods so i need to shut down rite after the traps , you say that i don't have a low clutch apply (engine braking in low ) on these (redneck VB ) correct ? then i should be able to let up and shift to second and let it come to idle rite after the lights to extend the life of the rods correct ? thanks for you advice in the past

Frank Merkl
07-29-2008, 06:09 PM
Merlin with a Redneck brake your right in 1st gear if you let off throttle the engine will drop back to an idle , what kind of racing are you doing the you only use 1st?
Frank

merlinbob57
07-30-2008, 07:39 PM
it's a drag car , frank , i have an allum. rod motor, they don't want you to use the motor to slow the car down after the traps and i'm trying to figure out how i'm going to do that with a reverse valve body ! i've never owned an allum. rod motor before , i know at low speed if i shift into 1st the car just freewheels w/o engine braking until the car slows low enough for the sprag to engage , i've never tried that at 130 mph though ! i need a more experienced driver with this set up to give some advise on how i'm going to if all achieve my goal of shutting it down at the top end w/o stretching my rods so to speak ! my side oiler w / 4spd lenco was a no-brainer , just push in the clutch , my low buck c-6 w/ brake race car poses a new problem for me in this area ! got any advise ? thanks as usual for your help

Frank Merkl
07-31-2008, 12:13 AM
All my motors are aluminum rod deals , I run a B&M Pro stick with the reverse gate on all my C6's ,all you do at the end of the run is squeeze the lever and the shift lever together and push it straight to neutral - click the motor off after the chute blossoms , nothing to it , done it a couple thousand times
Frank

merlinbob57
08-01-2008, 06:19 AM
i have a B&M pro-ratchet , i'de have to ratchet the shifter fwd twice to acomplish the same, 1 stroke of the shifter either way causes it to move the lever one detent at a time in the direction of the pull ( one fwd or one backwards at a time ) it's a 6 mos old shifter so obviously it has a rev. lock-out ! i guess i'll have to try it , hopefully it won't catch a piece of second gear on the way past . i'm getting ready to pull the trans and give it a stiffening up in the near future , i bought the kolenes for the low-rev pack as well and i lucked into a 5 clutch direct drum for the c-6, with the alto kolene pack i should be able to load 7 or 8 clutchs if i remember correctly , i also got a thin presure plate i'm going to try in the fwd and see if i can't load 5 with a cushion plate to ease the snap ring issue ! it would be nice if we knew where there was a cache of early fwd ring gears they had the same teeth as the directs didn't they ?, you could loaded 7 or 8 in the fwd as well maybe ? ever tried that ? what's you preferance on the band , clay or kevlar ? i see they have a wide kevlar now , the kevlar has been giving me a good shift and release feel at 1 turn ! thanks

res0rli9
08-03-2008, 10:53 AM
Frank. ive got C6 out of 69 428cj, gona take guts out for my 460, but just


what all does it have in it, does it have the 5 cluch drum like the lecon.

Thanks ahead if time.

Frank Merkl
08-04-2008, 09:16 PM
CJ tranies should have the 5 clutch drum in it
Frank

res0rli9
08-04-2008, 09:30 PM
will thay have the v/b that you use.

Frank Merkl
08-04-2008, 10:30 PM
it should have
frank

gtmustang
09-28-2008, 04:43 PM
Frank: You say that the C8AP/C7AP is the valve body needed for building a transbrake v/b. What years, models and engine combinations can this c6 valvebody in? If I take of a trans pan, what would I see as a casting# on the valve body? I'm assuming the other casting# will be on the top half of the valvebody? I'd like to know what I'm looking for, so I can find a good valve body to have built into a transbrake for future use.
Gary

Frank Merkl
09-28-2008, 09:01 PM
'68-'71 C6's , easy way to tell on a trans is the imput shaft will go in either way
Frank

gtmustang
09-28-2008, 10:51 PM
Thanks Frank, I'll be on the lookout for a 68-71.
Gary

Gearhead559
10-01-2008, 10:12 AM
'68-'71 C6's , easy way to tell on a trans is the imput shaft will go in either way
Frank i had one trans that would do that, but it had the wrong valve body in it...some one in there messing around :roll:

fatglass65
11-04-2008, 10:07 AM
Frank, you have a pm about building a vb.

fatglass65
11-05-2008, 08:16 AM
i got ahold of a tci manual vb no brake for cheap, but after reading all the horror storys i am not sure about using it. can it be fixed relatively easy or would it be better to just buy another one? if so what should i look toward; i will run a foot brake class and do not need a brake. i seen that summit has a turbo action set up. is this a good vb or do those need extra mods too?

Frank Merkl
11-11-2008, 08:09 PM
most TCI manual VB's work ,just follow there instuctions
Frank

gregaust
11-13-2008, 12:37 PM
Just to clarify, Is it only the TCi transbrake V.B's that have the checkball issues.
I just got a Rev man valvebody setup from Jay at Broader performance .Looks nice and keen to try it out .

68FSTBCK
11-18-2008, 08:55 PM
This looks like the best post to inquire with my amature questions, Frank helped me with pump removal (another post) now I'm trying to get the Low Reverse Clutch piston out, everthing else is removed, please advise. Thanks

gregaust
11-19-2008, 01:44 AM
Hey 68. If in doubt just start a new post so we don't miss helping you.
You do have the inner roller cluch race removed ??? 5 bolts from the back of the case and snap ring and return spring plate will come out.
If the piston is stuck in ,put some air in the reverse apply hole where the valvebody fits on.If you look at the back of the main case is 3 holes ,2 go to the governor and one is reverse. Also be careful,with air the piston can come out rather fast , put case facing down say and put rags or wooden block in there to stop any piston damage or stop it taking off.

68FSTBCK
11-19-2008, 05:39 PM
Thanks gregaust, worked slick :D

gregaust
11-20-2008, 01:28 AM
Sweet mate . If you get stuck pm's are good too . I check in most days ..

shadetree
11-22-2008, 12:12 PM
frank tried that site in post huh what the anybody got anything from that one? oops should add trans id site my bad also need to get some info on trans ids for strong street work

BBBob_M
02-14-2009, 06:10 PM
So for a daily-driver budget street / strip rebuild... Are all the shift kits or "shift improver" kits for c6's about the same? Any brand better or worse than another?

.

gregaust
02-14-2009, 10:45 PM
Bob. IMO the transgo 67-2 kit is the best and works well . For a truck of near stock daily driver the shift improver SK-6 is the go. I won't build a C6 without some kind of kit or mods .
Jay at Broader performance does kits that gives you most options all in 1 kit

Gearhead559
02-17-2009, 11:21 PM
guess i should fix the link...site looks great chilly! props!


also edited the top 3 posts with most of the data so far!

Gearhead559
02-18-2009, 06:42 PM
links fixxed. other then the wide gear one.

billandlori
03-19-2009, 12:04 AM
Hi Frank or Gearhead,

I found a C-6 out of a mid 80's 1 ton cube van with a 460. The trans I have in the Thunderbird is the Lincoln unit with the V mount. The cube van trans has the normal mount.

Is there a dimentional differnece between the two? Will my drive shaft be too short if I build the cube van trans? I want to start with a known good trans so I don't have to mess around with it anymore.

Thanks for the help guys!!
Bill

Gearhead559
03-19-2009, 01:58 AM
v mount is the longer one. going to the shorter one will need to make the drive shaft longer

and the older one is prove to have the better parts in it

billandlori
03-19-2009, 08:16 AM
Thanks Gearhead!!

I guess I will just use the VB out of the newer one. The V mount one is a 1977 version. The trans is in the car and I had the drive shaft made to fit.

Thanks again,
Bill

BigBlockRanger
04-06-2009, 03:30 PM
If it's a TCI I have a fix for it as the problem is the 2 checkball slots in the lower half of the valvebody are too large and too long and the checkball cannot find there seats in the spacer plate. there should be 2- 1/4" steel checkball ,one in each slot . you need to fill these slots with JB WEld or another good 2 part epoxy , then using the spacer plate as a pattern mark the 4 checkball seats in the epoxy - using a 9/32" drill bit drill 4 holes in the epoxy approximately 9/32" deep at the 4 marked spots, then using the drillbit router a new checkball slot in the epoxy , make sure the checkballs will roll free from one end to the other in both slots - install the spacerplate and check to make sure the checkballs will roll from one end of the slot to the other and not over shoot there intended seat, the holes in the spacerplate should be 7/32" for the High checkball and 5/32" for the low checkball . In between the lower half of the valvebody and the spacerplate there should be a gasket ,if there is not make one out of .005" gasket material, Torque all Valvebody bolts to 55 inch/lb's
Frank

Just wondering, Could slightly larger checkballs do just about the same thing?

Frank Merkl
04-07-2009, 12:34 PM
the slots are to long
Frank

BigBlockRanger
04-07-2009, 12:54 PM
Ahhh that helps clear it up. I was thinking the slots were just cast too big overall.

billandlori
05-03-2009, 08:18 PM
Hi guys,

Well, I finally got the pan pulled off of the trans tonite. It only has maybe 200 miles on it since I had the pan off last time. I cleaned it real well before I put it back on. There seems to be quite a bit of clutch material on the bottom of the pan when I took it off. Do you think it could be from the issues I was having with the TCI valve body?

To recap, I rebuilt the trans with a TCI heavy duty rebuild kit. All new clutches and band. When I really jump on the gas and run it hard through 1-2-3, then come to a stop it would feel like the trans was locked when I went to take off again. Frank figured the TCI VB was crap causing the problem.

I have a stock VB out of a E350 cube van to put in, but if you guys think the trans is FUBAR, I will not put it in.

Thanks for the continuing help guys!!:)

Bill

gtmustang
05-20-2009, 07:20 AM
My C-6 currently has type F trans fluid in it, an I'd like to change it over to synthetic dexron 3 because it lasts longer with high trans temps. The guy that bult the trans for me recomends dexron 3, but he said it was ok to use type F. Since I already had a case of type F laying around, I decided to use it up, now I'm not so sure that was a smart thing to do. If I drain the trans, there is still going to be several quarts of type F left in it and the converter. Is there any problem with mixing dexron 3 and type F.
Gary

Frank Merkl
05-20-2009, 10:00 AM
just use the type F
Frank

bucky406
05-24-2009, 02:28 PM
hi frank , i'm having an intermittent problem with 1st gear engaing. this c6 came with the car i built and was supposed to be a"fresh" rebuild. it has a c7 c8 valve body that has been modified for a forward manual shift. at first i just thought my cable for the shifter was out of adjustment,but thats not the case, so i took it to my local trans guy i deal with a lot and we removed the valve body and linkage to verify all was good. both he and i think there is something wrong with the valve body but really have no clue what. it also has a k lever and a l servo, from what i've read on your posts that sounds like a bad combination although the trans does shift well from 2-3 all the time. i'm just stumped why 90% of the time it will not shift into first gear. i should add that when it's shifted into first the trans is usually in second,and the detent in the valve body felt good and solid,and fluid temp makes no difference sometimes i have first hot or cold
thanks chris

Frank Merkl
05-26-2009, 01:28 AM
hate to tell you but it sounds like you should put some jam on it as it's about toast
Frank

speedemon
07-13-2009, 02:13 AM
Hi

Has anyone got any pictures of where the down shift lever should be positioned inside the box, I got a box from someone and he had fitted a Mr Gasket tough shift kit, but looks like he has put the lever in the wrong place as it is very loose and does not kick down the box when you nail it

Craig

gregaust
07-13-2009, 02:33 AM
Sounds like the lever is wrong. Don't think i have a pic but there is a little spring loaded plunger beside the manual valve , takes a little jiggling as VB goes in to line it up. Lever will be spring loaded one way when correct and against the stop the other.

speedemon
07-13-2009, 01:50 PM
Looks like the spring loaded plunger is stuck, Is it ok to drop the valve body plate off and look inside, or am i going to have parts droping off,

Craig

Frank Merkl
07-14-2009, 12:16 AM
take the vb out , the 3/8" headed bolts hold it to the case
Frank

Gearhead559
07-25-2009, 12:44 AM
man so much info....:D


is there anywhere to get the little springs? i may have misplaced some..but not sure yet...that what i get for tearing apart 3 transmissions and having all the parts in one place :rolleyes::(

gtmustang
07-27-2009, 07:44 PM
This came up in another thread:
Quote "Cool 40 just found that out last Friday night at US.43 . He left in second gear with a c/4 which is realy way to high for first and the car was running faster at the 500 ft mark than it was at the strip running in first gear. I think his 60's were only off like .06 . Geared this way it was like running a glide with a 2.88 gear He runs a 4.86 now, a 4.33 I think will be about right. The car gathered enough speed that the shift light was on at the 500 ft mark."
Will launching in second gear damage a C-6?
Gary

Frank Merkl
07-28-2009, 09:14 AM
GT , launching in 2nd won't hurt it
Frank

gtmustang
07-28-2009, 09:26 AM
Thanks, I guess launching in 2nd would be like a poor mans 2 speed.
Gary

FAIRMONT MIKE
11-02-2009, 06:23 PM
Frank, quick question for you, with the B&M shift kit you said to put the seporater plate gasket in and leave in the 2-3 checkball. What would happen if one were to leave it out? Its been a while and I cant find my instructions but my memory tells me the instructions said it was optional for a harder shift.
Does that sound right or does it affect the shift timing?

Thank you in advance.

billandlori
11-02-2009, 08:32 PM
FYI, Frank is off hunting for the next week or so. He will answer but it may be awhile!!

Bill

FAIRMONT MIKE
11-03-2009, 02:18 PM
Thats right I totally forgot, good things come to those who wait!

Frank Merkl
11-09-2009, 10:28 PM
Mike ,it just seems to have better shift timing with the ball in
Frank

Money-pit
12-02-2009, 03:03 PM
If someone hasn't already mentioned it. Some C6 cases don't have the bolt hole provisions for the factory neu/rev switch. If you need to run one this is something you don't want to find out after a rebuild.

gregaust
12-16-2009, 10:08 PM
The factory installed the piston with the check ball at the 6'oclock position ,this was to take the clunk out of(the driveline) firing the motor up and pulling it in reverse on high idle(as the oil would drain out of the low piston over night ) on perf builds put the check ball at 12 o'clock, must people don't care if their race car clunks the driveline when they put it in reverse
Frank

Do you definitely need to have the reverse piston with checkball Frank for your valvebody? Any way around it . Getting harder to find these older parts :( Building up "Busta's" C6 soon with your V.B
Also has anyone used the plastic type sprag from 4R100. Thats what is supplied here now i'm told in place of the C6 type.
Is it a straight drop in or somethong need to be done to fit it in place of the original type

Frank Merkl
12-18-2009, 12:31 PM
gregaust , I use that style piston as it is taller than the new style as the new style is shorter to make up for the wave plate in the newer style trans . you probably could use the new style if you were to make a shim to make up the clearance between the piston and the first steel in the case ,I've never tried it as the old style piston with the checkball trans are not that hard to find here yet and they have the C7AP/C8AP vb's that I'm looking for . as for the plastic raced sprap I've never tried one
Frank

gregaust
12-18-2009, 11:55 PM
Thanks Frank . I'll pull it down and see how i go if i can locate the early piston. I thought it might been more that the checkball/bleedhole was required.

larrylass
01-01-2010, 06:54 PM
Lots of great info on here guys. Ive gotten alot of help from Ken Collins of Bad Shoe Productions. He makes a fantastic C6 Rebuild DVD and also Jay at Broader performance. After doing my homework Jay is the guy for a great rebuild kit. ill be purchasing mine soon. TCI was no help and an ATTITUDE to boot. Thanks for all your info Frank!! much apprieciated

BigLar

Gearhead559
01-17-2010, 11:55 AM
ok thank fully this is still here..ha...thought i lost this ..lol



should be stickied in the driveline section that is now here :eek:

Bobby Brown
05-27-2010, 07:50 PM
Instead of adding a second check ball we replaced the steel ball with an 5/16" plastic ball. Also drill the small hole out to 1/8"

Bobby Brown
05-27-2010, 07:58 PM
All you need to change is the shaft and tail housing.

Bobby Brown
05-27-2010, 08:03 PM
The plastic sprag will not outlive the old style. In race conditions they won't hold up to the heat. But you can add Castrol blue hyd. fluid Part # 40247 ISO46 will keep any trans up to 20 deg. cooler.

Pro Pony
09-29-2010, 08:28 PM
Does anybody have a pic of the two different high/reverse drums? I know Frank said there are two different ones, being the length of the splines. I have a bunch of different year transmissions and parts, but no 2 different drums. It would be great to see the diff. in a pic. Any help is apprieciated, thanks, Mike

Bobby, I'm running Amalie full synthetic, how much "blu" oil should I add?

Redhawk
10-03-2010, 07:21 PM
I just bought a 1970 460/c6 motor/trans. comp. neither ever opened up. Said came out of a Lin. I have a f-100 with 460/c6 in it now, and noticed this one has a long tailshaft. Is that a good or bad thing? I'm thinking of puting it in another f-100 for a daily driver, and maybe pull the other to the track on trailer. Is there any diff. other than tail length? First time using this site so correct me if i'm doing something wrong!

suitor
11-20-2010, 03:18 AM
greetings all,
I am considering purchasing an over drive unit from Gear Vendors for my C6 transmission.
I have an RV with a 460 c.i. matched to a C6.
TheRV is about 30 feet and is a 1989 .
Is the cost really woth benefits in fuel savings, wear on the motor and tranny?
The motor screams at 70 MPH. No tach yet to see where it is at on the RPM's.
The cost is $3, 400 plus a bigger tranny cooler, larger fluid ports in the tranny to get a higher volume of fluid, new tran's hoses, shorter drive shaft. ET...
About a $5,000 expense.
I am willing to consider other options.
I am planning on a trip to Alaske in about 2 months so I want to give the RV as much help as I can plus save some $$$ on fuel cost.

Frank Merkl
03-05-2011, 08:55 PM
Here's the pics again
http://i58.photobucket.com/albums/g266/fmerkl/C6Transendplayandrollerize001-1.jpg
http://i58.photobucket.com/albums/g266/fmerkl/C6Transendplayandrollerize005.jpghttp://i58.photobucket.com/albums/g266/fmerkl/C6Transendplayandrollerize002.jpg

http://i58.photobucket.com/albums/g266/fmerkl/C6Transendplayandrollerize007.jpg
http://i58.photobucket.com/albums/g266/fmerkl/C6Transendplayandrollerize010.jpg
http://i58.photobucket.com/albums/g266/fmerkl/C6Transendplayandrollerize009.jpg
http://i58.photobucket.com/albums/g266/fmerkl/C6Transendplayandrollerize008.jpg

Toney460
07-24-2011, 10:19 PM
Great thread! Lot's of useful info and opinions. Thanks for all the input, everyone.

douglas65
03-07-2013, 11:36 AM
How much hp can a C6 endure before it needs built up...

gregaust
03-07-2013, 02:43 PM
How much hp can a C6 endure before it needs built up...

Not a lot more than stock motor if you want it to last . A good shift kit will help it live under some power . A stock valvebody is too slow + soft

lance70
09-18-2013, 06:14 PM
I've got a '79 F350 Supercab 2wd with a 460/C6. Today I hauled my trailer with stuff to the dump. The truck seemed to be "working" to pull the trailer(18' Big Tex car trailer w/ probably 500# worth of junk on it). When I got home and put into reverse it started to shutter. Got the trailer unhooked,took the truck out for a drive,came back,put it into reverse...same thing, it started shuddering....Is it time for a rebuild?...or would it be cheaper to switch over to a manual trans? I just bought this truck,so I do not know the history. Thanks
Lance

gregaust
09-19-2013, 04:48 AM
Here you go

http://i285.photobucket.com/albums/ll57/Gregaust/SAVE0007_zpsa99ba58e.jpg (http://s285.photobucket.com/user/Gregaust/media/SAVE0007_zpsa99ba58e.jpg.html)

lance70
09-19-2013, 08:30 AM
WOW! THANK YOU!

lance70
09-19-2013, 01:58 PM
That WORKED! Thank YOU again!

gregaust
09-20-2013, 04:59 AM
Nice.. Glad it helped :)

lance70
10-12-2013, 07:58 PM
well, that was short lived....still shutters in reverse...but only after driven for a few miles??? Guessin Im needin it rebuilt?

lance70
10-28-2013, 07:17 PM
Used the truck(79 F350 Supercab 2wd,460,C6,D70 w/3.73) this weekend to tow my trailer and a 1t Chevy flatbed dually. When I would hit a SMALL grade or take off from a stop, the truck moved liked the brakes were on,even if I put my foot to the floor,but it didnt sound like the engine was over revving. When I would kick it down, it would kick down and immediately upshift.....Does this sound like a trans problem?

lance70
06-23-2014, 09:17 PM
Well, I finally had the time to adjust my band...now the trucks works GREAT. I had to turn the adjuster bolt in about 5 full turns to get it to torque! Set it at 120in lbs and backed it off 1 1/2 turns. Works like it's suppose to now.

stuarta
06-24-2014, 04:15 PM
Well, I finally had the time to adjust my band...now the trucks works GREAT. I had to turn the adjuster bolt in about 5 full turns to get it to torque! Set it at 120in lbs and backed it off 1 1/2 turns. Works like it's suppose to now.

If you had to adjust it that much stop now and replace the band before you destroy the drum.

lance70
06-26-2014, 11:46 AM
Great.....maybe I was exaggerating?? Now I cant really remember! But I do know it was not 1 1/2 turns...could have been 3 but it sure seemed like a lot!

peter burridge
06-26-2014, 03:20 PM
its time to freshen up. this transmission is not the hardest to rebuild i strip my one down every to race meats