Got a toploader... Thoughts behind the 460?

Yesterday I bought a toploader from a '65 Galaxie 390. small in/out and close ratio. Came with the factory shifter and shift arm. Needs a rebuild but shifts into the 4 gears and turns alright. Shifter wo't go into reverse but trans does. Will have to rebuild the shifter too. The hard parts look good from looking through the top cover. A little slop in the input and output shaft, bearings are kaput. Paid $325 for it.

Reasonable price? Good choice in general for the car? It's going into my '68 Galaxie with a mild 460. Currently running a C6 and hate the slushbox. What do you guys recommend for a flywheel/clutch/pressure plate? How about throwout bearing? I have the z-bar setup for this car (from a '65) but if I can even find headers for this thing to get rid of the logs I think the z-bar may be an issue. I was looking at McLeod hydraulic throwout bearings and they are almost $400. I aint's made of money! I know PatFromJersey made anifty setup for his. Maybe I should do something similar to his setup?

I think you will break it if you beat on it. It might last a long time if you drive nicely. But who wants to do that? :twisted:

On my 66 Gal with a 390 / Tremec 5 speed, I used the FPA shorty headers. I don't think they make them for a 460, but if you go to their site www.fordpowertrain.com you may be able to get an idea of how to make some yourself.

my small shaft toploader has been just fine - however it doesnt see track duty, just street.

I ran the small in/out toploader for about 2 years. Last time I took it out(the 43 year old bearings finally gave up), I noticed the input was twisted, so I swapped it out to a big input. Trans started out as a close ratio, but i swapped it to a wide ratio, and added the 2.90 first gear to it. I have found the next weak link in the drivetrain yesterday and thats the clutch(11" 6 puck metallic ram clutch with 2800# pressure plate) and it spun that through all 4 gears with a 150 shot of nitrous :shock:

i ran a big spline wide ratio converted to small spline close ratio in my mustang before i switched to a nash 4+1. never broke the trans but did shred a bunch 28 spline 9" stuff before going to 35 spline w/ spool and braced housing . the thing i didnt like about the toploader was it seemed to wear the hub in the syncro assembly causing the slider to bind and not fully engage , which meant missed shifts. the first time this happened it was missing 4th , replaced it and then about 50 runs later it started doing it in 2nd. the remedy would have been to pro-shift it and that would have cost about $900. the TL is a bear to work on with the way they come apart having to deal with the shift rails in the side of the case. found some used nash stuff purchased it and have never looked back. at the time my stang was 3400# and it ran a best of 11.66 with the TL ,leaving the line @7k and power shifting @5600 with a 390 FE.
Just my experiences.........ron

Sounds like you guys aren't very impressed with your toploader experiences. Perhaps I should convert to big in/out during the rebuild? I should be getting to it some time next week for disassembly.

the reason i changed to the small wide box was for the gear ratios. the big close box has a 2.32 first gear and the wide box has a 2.78 first. with the 2.32 1st it was really tuff on clutches with using the street friendly 3.70 gear. at that time we had a small block / wide box in a maverick and it seemed to work good so i converted mine to the small input ,wide ratio gears and left the big spline out put and the same tail housing . the clutches lived longer and it was faster too. for street use i think you would never hurt the TL and it would be a good reliable trans.just use a good shifter and clutch set up and go bang some gears.
KICKIN & RIPPIN thats my motto

I see. Mine is a close ratio box and it's going into a full size car with 3.00:1 rear. Maybe not enough gear and too much weight to be enjoyable? I am plaing on doing 3.50:1 with a locker by next season. No slicks or anything, just some more gear for a little more pep off the line and some more traction hopefully. Currently with the open 3.00:1 rear it's like I'm driving on wet pavement. Very easy to spin the tire in 1st, and it's chirped second a few times. I think a locker will help.

Do you think 3.50:1 gears will not be enough with the close ratio? Will I still have to drag the clutch a lot in 1st?

I'm used to underpoweredvehicles with manual transmissions. My Falcon had a 144 and 3 on the tree. Had to drag it a little to get going. My truck is an F-250 with a beat to hell 302 and a ZF5 nd 4.10:1 gears. I can drop the clutch at idle in 1st (granny) and it won't stall but to get moving in 2nd (1st on a normal trans, 2.xx:1) I gotta drag it a lot anymore and it kinda sucks. That engine has been hydrolocked twice and overheated 'till it seized though. Wasn't always like that but sucks to get moving sometimes I really gotta drag it.

Don't wanna be anoyed with that stuff in the Galaxie. I was hoping with the 460 it'd have the torque that it wouldn't really matter even with 3.00:1 gears. If need be I can convert to wide ratio but was hoping to avoild the expense and save that money for patching my quarters and new paint.

Also wanted to ask what you guys think I should do for a flywheel, clutch and pressure plate? Cheap is good but will spend the money if I have to. Keep in mind this car rarely sees the track, maybe 2-3 times a year and no slicks. 400-450HP from the engine currently, probably won't go over 500. Just a fun street cruiser.

depending on the tire heigth a 3.50 may work ok .
i may be mistaken but i think all the small spline stuff was wide ratio boxes with the 2.78 1st . which would be good in your case.
i would look at the dual friction centerforce for a decend street application. i have this in my hauler which is a 81 f-250 sc 4x4 w/300 t-19 , 3.54 & 285-16. it chatters a little in reverce but seems to hold up pretty well for hauling and a little 4 wheelin.

I ran the big in and out toploader, which was close ratio. I never had a problem with the tranny and it was a used tranny I alsoran it behind a 523 stroker which had 600hp and 650lbs of torque. If I were you I would get a hold of Mcleod for a clutch they make a nice 12inch pressure plate and disc that bolts upto where the factory clutch bolted up. I ran the the diaphragm style pressure plate and loved it, it had very little pedal effort, but they also make the long style pressure plate. By the way close ratio kind of does suck, first gear is just to fast it either bogs out of the hole or burns them off. So good luck

I'm loving the big in/out Top Loader in my Fairlane, with the 521. Mine is also a close ratio, but with the 3.89's and my home made hydraulic clutch setup, it is so smooth. I have the long style pressure plate, with the 12" McLeod setup. It was some bucks for the that setup, but worth every penny. I can't wait to get to the track with the new Detroit Locker in the rear. I can finally really let it go, and hope to get some traction now. :lol:

Here's a couple threads on my setup.

http://www.460ford.com/viewtopic.php?t=5913&highlight=hydraulic+clutch

http://www.460ford.com/viewtopic.php?t=6067&highlight=hydraulic+clutch

i v'e recently put in a pro shifted/face plate toploader, w/big in-out shafts, has a 2.78 1st ,using a centerforce 11" dual friction .this combo is quite streetable, the clutch is smooth ,seems big enough for this setup and is noticably lighter than the 12" plate. the tranny is fine for street driving [opinions may differ] although it takes some getting used to , the stock full synchro probably wont hold up ,if it"ll shift, thesecan be had for around $750 less than a used jerico , also ,1st gear is still full synchro , helps alot for the street, the modifications to the hubs & gears is good to 700 hp.

i may be mistaken but i think all the small spline stuff was wide ratio boxes with the 2.78 1st . which would be good in your case.

I had an heh-d which was a small in/ou that was a close ratio. That REALLY sucked with a 5100# truck with 4.10 gears and 6 puck ram metallic clutch.

bbf514: Why would the proshifting mod only be good to 700. I'm probably running damn near that on the stock syncro's :shock:

the people at Liberty's transmissions quoted me that number, maybe they are being conservitive //// is the stock trans /700hp combo in something real light ? i would'nt want to try it in a 3000lb + car

the people at Liberty's transmissions quoted me that number, maybe they are being conservitive //// is the stock trans /700hp combo in something real light ? i would'nt want to try it in a 3000lb + carLiberty's also has a specific big input to work with a wide ratio trans

I should've said have instead of had because I'm still running that trans in my truck(5100#). It put down 549hp/593tq or right around there at the rear wheels. Actually I'm surprised theyre lasting because I think they are still the stock 43 year old sycro's :shock: