building a tow rig 460 c-6 3.55 gears [Archive] - 460 Ford Forum

: building a tow rig 460 c-6 3.55 gears


streetcar
12-14-2008, 07:47 PM
sorry if this has been done before. new to the site. definitly not to fords. I am having trouble finding basic info. I have build one 460 for my plow truck before I found this site. built along the lines of the 275-300 hp in the engine build section. only with eldebrok performer cam. What is the torque and at what rpm on that build?

also just bought a 79 crewcab with a 460 that is suppose to be rebuilt. I will be pulling my trailer with it. Are the stock 460s designed most lowend torque possible? And if not what can I do to increase the lowend? I dont care if the engine is peaked out at 3500 rpm. it will be used for towing only.

One last question. Do the 79 460s have retarded cam timing? And if so would I benefit by changing the timing set for a cloyes true double roller?

Thanks for help and agian sorry if all this has been ask before.
Mike.

LivermoreDave
12-14-2008, 08:42 PM
Mike the 460's do an excellent job towing. You didn't mention your type of trailer or weight of your towing project. If I can mention a few areas that may offer better towing performance from your engine and vehicle. If your trailer type is open, axle gearing at 3:1 for non mountainous terrain and 3.25:1 or 3.5:1 for mountain areas will work fine. If the trailer type is closed and/or the weight you tow is heavy (4500 lbs. or greater) and depending on terrain the high ratio may be in the 3.25:1 to 3.5:1 and leaning toward the lower ratio of 3.7:1 for the tougher job. Yes, the camshaft timing may be retarded from the factory. I would highly suggest changing the camshaft. I've had great results with the COMP CAMS Hi-Energy Series. The 260 will offer great driveability and good towing. If you fell the need for a bit more power move up to the COMP CAMS Hi-Energy 268. I'm positive there are many camshafts that will work with your application, but the two I mentioned are "no-brainers"! They work! Use a GOOD transmission cooler, if your tows are long and/or hard.

Hope this shed some light on your project,
Dave.

redneckminivan
12-14-2008, 09:59 PM
i just got finished with a flat top 460 running the comp 268 d3ve heads and a performer intake. i also used the earlier straight up timing set. at first the thing was kinda wimpy. after researching this sight i finaly discoverd that i was just timing the thing all wrong i didnt have full advance till 3000. i recurved the dizzy am now running 18 inital and 36 total. not able to use the vacume advance cuz it will ping. the advance is all in bye 1800 and the thing rips. i could not believe the torque this thing will produce. thanks guys! any way this motor is in a 5800 pound f250 and has pulled a 70 foot single wide over the steapest pass we have here. :shock: on the down hill side it took 3 trucks out back to hold er back. (yes it was another dumbass redneck moment) we locals like to call this the trailer dyno!

streetcar
12-15-2008, 08:15 AM
My trailer is 12-13000 lbs so the load is heavy. my current truck has a 460 .030 over edelbrock cam 460/480 .030 off the heads (d3ve) dished pistions, edelbrock performer intake, and 750 holley. 3.54 gears and 33 inch tires. I only have about 3-4000 miles on this engine and it seems to pull well but not as well as I would like. Can i get more power by putting a bigger cam in. I thought if i want any bigger it will keep getting weaker on the bottom and thats not what i want. i have a 78 1/2 ton with a rebuilt 351w that is built back to stock and it is nothing but lowend. i have no idea what cam or heads. its just a "4 star" rebuild with shorty headers edelbrock intake and 600 holley. 3.55 gears and 29" tire. this engine feels like it has more lowend than the 460 is it the bigger truck (4200lb to 5600lb) and bigger tires (29s to 33s)? or do i not have my 460 running right. I dont know about getting into the distibuter so help their will be needed.

Oh and the 1/2 ton ran 16.78 sec. 78 mph in the 1/4 mile this summer.
Thanks for the help MIke..

streetcar
12-15-2008, 12:51 PM
just finished working on truck a little. i think my acc. pump was adjusted to tight i backed it off a little. arent they supposed to have a little free play? seem to be better. I think it was pumping to much fuel when i Punched it. Seemed ok under part throttle accel. AS I said i have a 750 holley. I have the second to strongest spring in the secondary i think i am going to try the strongest. It seems like it is running rich under full throttle. How do you guys adjust jets and secondary springs? I have the quick change kit on it and the nonstick gaskets. Thanks for the help. MIke

The Mad Porter
12-15-2008, 01:09 PM
The key to building a good towing combo is to carefully match static c/r to cam choice to maximise lower rpm cylinder pressure while still running well on pump regular or mid grade gasoline.

Keep static compression ratio at a true 8.5 to 1 with tight quench.
I utilise the lunati 61600 or 61601, early timing set with either a stock intake or performer intake and a 1" four hole spacer. 600 holley will be fine for towing. A 750 will add extra power for pullling hills at speed.

Distributor curve is critical. 32 to 34 degrees in by 3 to 3200 depending on final drive ratio. Vacuum advance adjustment needs to be carefully tailored to avoid part throttle ping. I usually recommend about 8 to 10 degrees vacuum advance over and above the total initial and centrifugal advance in the distributor. The faster the advance curve the less vacuum advance the combo will tolerate.

A dual snorkle air cleaner ducted to cool air
Block off or restrict to intake heated crossover when using an aluminum intake and a lower temp t stat will help to stave off detonation.

A good free flowing exhaust system with headers of 1.75" to 1.875" primary pipe diameter with a 3" collector and X pipe if there is room will maximise torque.

Given the stock engines miserable 7.5 to 1 c/r and .070"+ quench distance there is a ton of room for improvement over a factory combo when rebuilding the short block. Bottom line is compression builds torque. If you are willing to run premium when you tow you can increase static c/r to 9 to 1 with the 213/219 voodoo cam.

I have built many 400 HP combos that tow quite well. Budget ported D3 heads cut to 92 cc's, KB138 pistons at 0 deck for 8.5 to 1 static c/r, voodoo 207/213 cam on a 112 lsa, performer intake with 1" spacer, properly curved duraspark, 750 carb with cool air intake, low temp thermostat, headers and dual exhaust with X pipe and straight through mufflers.

Unloaded these combos will get damned near 13 mpg.




8)

streetcar
12-18-2008, 07:51 AM
with the engine combo i have what can i do to max the power out of it?

Headers
recurved dist.
intial timing 16
open exhaust Will a 3" striaght pipe work?
1" spacer on top the performer intake
low temp thermostat 180?
cool air intake
I have a 4"x14" open k&n air cleaner. should i ditch that and put a stock one on and try to duct it the front of the truck?
So far those things are the things I can improve on with my current engine.

With the truck with the stock engine i need to pretty much rebuild it with different parts?

And agian dont bigger cams give a softer bottom end? I have been researching and asking about cams for 2 years now and still not totally clear on how they work. I would prefer a cam that peaks out at 3500 rpm if it will give me more power in that 1000-3500 range then one that peaks out at 4000 or higher and will lower my torque at the lower rpm.

Thanks for the help Mike

zephyrbob
12-18-2008, 12:20 PM
..... Bottom line is compression builds torque. If you are willing to run premium when you tow you can increase static c/r to 9 to 1 with the 213/219 voodoo cam.


,,,,fwiw, that cam is very simular to the one scott supplied me. unfortunatley my compression is now approaching 10 to 1. i am not sure how that will affect octane requirements. however it is in a light street car not a truck. bobn

The Mad Porter
12-18-2008, 12:50 PM
..... Bottom line is compression builds torque. If you are willing to run premium when you tow you can increase static c/r to 9 to 1 with the 213/219 voodoo cam.


,,,,fwiw, that cam is very simular to the one scott supplied me. unfortunatley my compression is now approaching 10 to 1. i am not sure how that will affect octane requirements. however it is in a light street car not a truck. bobn

With aluminum heads bob you should be allright although a bit edgy...

Carefully tuning, low temp stat etc... You know the drill... :D


8)

streetcar
12-21-2008, 07:38 AM
Anyone to confirm my questions?