Road Racing 78 THUNDERBIRD

I'v been going over this for years now . They used to race the THUNDERBIRD on the road course in the 70's and a Gran Torino went to the 24 Hours of LeMans and placed really good (11th overall I think) out of 45 car's . I also used to have a 77 THUNDERBIRD that I drove alot on Saturday night and came home "very" happy . Well , I miss the speed and the power . But this time I'm going for the big times . I want to run in the Redline Time Attack's in the unlimited class . I now that it'll take 2 years to get up there near the top , but I now what it takes to handle better then a 911 turbo .

After I get going , my short term goal is to get a 460 in it(8.4L) , 3,200 LBS weight , full ground effects that can work without wings .....and it will have wings . Win one RWD Unlimited class .....maybe over all on the right track , even if I have to let some else drive . Be street legal and have A-C .

I'v beat two $80,000.00 cars with a car I bought for $900.00 . I'v never been bet by money , and If I do , they will have to put millions and millions into it . Granted , I did'nt race cars I could'nt bet , But then again I didn't race full race cars . I'v been bet yes , but not by money !

But what I need from you guy's is help , and tips . I know a lot , but not everthing . And it's the little things or the $2.00 part that gets you every time . I'm not on the web that much , some times . And it is a Ford and it's modified and I'm racing it . I will be doing lot's of overtime when I can if I don't get backers . I will already.... even now have people who think big blocks are stupid and the Ford haters will be in full force , I don't need it here too . As soon as get rid of the Lincoln and buy the THUNDERBIRD you will get pictures and progress . My budget says I can buy it next mounth on my first check .Well , here goes !!!

you will never be competitive in that car, and a 911 turbo will run circles around even a well prepped mustang with a 302 combo (stock suspension). while i say good luck, and i mean it in a nice way, but any plans other then drag in that car seem like wishful thinking. JMHO

you will never be competitive in that car, and a 911 turbo will run circles around even a well prepped mustang with a 302 combo (stock suspension). while i say good luck, and i mean it in a nice way, but any plans other then drag in that car seem like wishful thinking. JMHO

How about a 69 cyclone then?

http://www.robisonracing.com/

Granted this is far from stock suspension but I don't know what the rules are for modifications for the Redline Time Attack or what classes there are. This will dictate whether you can really make it into a race car or not.

Also i don't care how good you are, building a car like that cyclone is going to require some decent money. Studying that car and learning as much as I could about it would be my first plan for building a car like you are discussing.

Just got the the 78 THUNDERBIRD three days ago for $175.00 , it looks bad . And by the way , I left a 911 (they handle like crap on a good day )with a 74 Cougar 2 cars back on some twisty roads , and he was tring to pass me . And I seen a guy autocross a Mustang GT and not only bet a prepaired STI but also one D Mod car here in Las Vegas too .

I'll have pictures of the car soon , and it looks bad . But the engine is so smooth and runs great for a 400M . The rules say I have to some of the dash and other stuff from the inside to be legal to run , and I plan on getting some carbon fiber seats I saw .

And by the way , my old Cougar could out handle a freinds Saleen . Yes it was street drivable and the Saleen did have Racecraft parts .

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This what I'm going for ....

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And ,...this is her now . I'm gonna strip her and put her on a diet , an then put the biggest performence tires on her I can .

Um, you should email me with some interior pics. I have a shopping list for you..My cougar needs some things depending if you have em :D

http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a72/psquare75/460/IMG_2400.jpg

Some of the stuff is an was already gone and broken . Later I plan on replacing the dash , center councol and steering wheel assembly with new ones out of new cars . After I fix the suspinson , glass and lights first ,I'll put in some real racing seats . Your car is in way better shape then mine and your Cougar looks nice . Are you gonna go Pro-Touring style with it ? I can give you help in the cornering part .

Faux Touring.

3:1 ratio Mustang steering box
poly bushings
CVPI spec Bilsteins
Addco rear bar, the larger OEM front bar.
12" front brake upgrade
the largest rear drum setup Ford made (11x2.5")
soon to be 18" wheels, currently on 17" Cragars.

Okay this is what you should do for my .02$... Either find a kit for a tri link set up in the rear, with coil overs. The front to a coil over with camber/caster plates front and rear. Oh either learn how to fab up suspension stuff or make friends. watch your unsprung weight like wheel and tire combo this can make or break your setup. I would forget the a/c and interior for this matter your cars no.1 enemy in road racing is weight... Anyway if you can get your suspension fabbed up you will be fine to start.

This car isn't a fox body chasiss or unibody . The Redline Time Attack's for the class I'm going for say you must use factory mounting holes . 345-35-18 rear , 315-35-18 front . I want to use 20" rims so I can use 15" rotors but I'm gonna try not to go broke and save money , but get good parts were I can (stock car style and hot rod parts) . Don't get me wrong , your right , most of the time . But , I read about and seen one of some Pro-Touring Chevelles and Novas putting down times at a track faster then lighter race preped cars like a Super 7 and a WRX STI and they had A-C and one stereo box . And by what you said , you shouldn't put a big block in your car . You should put in a turbo 4 to make the same power and be lighter , so why don't you ? You should , under that thanking hate the 460 and never use it . And when drag racing you want it to be way lighter then a road race car . Why spend one more dime on a 460 at all ? We both have seen imports eat our 5.0L brothers alive . A Veyron is 4,200 pounds and it can out handle a race preped Mazda Miata . A Mercury Marauder out handled a Audi TT and a BMW on youtube . So much for that weight thing .

www.compu-tronix.com/dis8.htm (http://www.compu-tronix.com/dis8.htm) is nice system for a big block . I might have to get it . I still want coil on plug though .

Do you know the data from the veyron vs mazda miata because the weight I am referring to is un-sprung like everything else doesn't count motor, tranny, frame interior ect, and did you ever consider that a veyron was engineered to go 250mph so the guys building it probably were very careful with the center of gravity and un-sprung weight ratio lord knows there are only like a hundred people in the world that can even afford those cars and if half of them die bugatti goes out of bussiness, because half of there clientel will be dead. Who was driving the miata they can be squirly I would know pulled every muscle in my neck one time when I snap spun at an autoX I am not trying to fight with you just give you something to think about.....

you will never be competitive in that car, and a 911 turbo will run circles around even a well prepped mustang with a 302 combo (stock suspension). while i say good luck, and i mean it in a nice way, but any plans other then drag in that car seem like wishful thinking. JMHO



Why is it wishful thinking? With the right amount of preparation and money any car could handle well. 911's are not amazing handling cars, and can easily be out handled by Fox bodies... They have a big problem with weight distribution, having all that engine out back.

Alright , time to get the tools and a camera and a body shop to do the body work and the fenders , four altogther . If I crash , I'll need a new pair so I'll do them with the one's for the car . The shop I have in mind I have credit with , so what better place to owe money . I get off work at 4:15 pm in Las Vegas , it's getting dark already or by the time I get home (and it's cold , I'm a baby , and girls "the real money pit") . So I need a good night time camera . Let me know witch ones good at night /outside . Cleaning the frame to take and make measurments and check for safty stuff . I'll be driving it so , better safe then sorry . I still need to find some one here to put in the 10-point rollcage and get it ok'd by the SCCA or NASA .

You should check out Grassroots Motorsports they could point you in the right direction. I knew a guy with a 350 in a buick reagal that had a limited slip and lots of suspension and it wasn't too much of a boat Idk and I would crush a veyron at an auto cross especially with my custom alignment that I will be doing over xmas break from college...

but anyway good luck

weight , make of car and all the rest, well the one factor is money can buy the high end cars but still have to know how to drive. taking a chance on crashing a few hundred dollar S box on the street vs big buck rides is not racing .

Why is it wishful thinking? With the right amount of preparation and money any car could handle well. 911's are not amazing handling cars, and can easily be out handled by Fox bodies... They have a big problem with weight distribution, having all that engine out back.


The rear engine configuration of a 911 is not as ideal as a mid-engine configuration, but it is nearly as good and it is better than a front engine configuration - unless is it s front/mid-engine setup like a Corvette or Aston Martin. Having a lot of rear weight bias is of HUGE benefit for braking. I think you would find a modern rear engined Porsche to be aptly described as having amazing handling.

I had a look at the Red-line Time Attack rules and there may be some loopholes in the letter of the rules, but the intent of the rules would make it very difficult to be competitive. My car has been developed to the point where it is getting close to the fastest 911s on some tracks, but it would never work with the Time Attack rules. I am sure it would be considered tube frame even though it uses some of the original frame rails. Also, there are no remnants of an original firewall and the engine is far enough back that is might be considered mid-engine in the context mentioned above.

You can see some rear engine Porsches in the videos I have on YouTube (see signature link). Some of them in the videos are fast, but they are not the fastest ones.

The BBF will get you in the ball park for lbs/HP and ahead for lbs/torque, but when it comes to braking and corner speeds, the weight will be a very difficult problem to overcome - especially if it is front biased.

You could find a chassis and put your stuff on it , and or at least make them into sub-frames . You can flair the car , so as long as it looks like a street car , you should be fine . The other cars from HKS and Crawford are not that far from you or the NXS's that pop up . On a side note , if I bring my cars to a track , do you think you can do three fast laps in it ? I'v also looked at the rules and thought that Unlimted is to high a goal for a street car and thought Modified class would be better for my car and the set-up I'm going for . And why do you slow down so much for the corners ? Do you have high down force or low down force ? Do you think 315-35-18 in front and 345-35-18 in the rear will be enough for my car ? I can put on slicks and get bumped up to Unlimited if you want to try your hand at it (hint , hint ) . That is a nice Mercury you got there , keep up the good work . Got the titles straight and found my dual oil filter and lines I'll be using . Pictures are coming when my freinds shop opens up .

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I'll be mounting this up later on Saturday. I'm getting a brakes next week for the low low .

Are you fitting 315s and 345s in stock wheel houses front and rear? I felt 295s in the rear were cutting it really close with no mods and 295s up front work BARELY.

Thoughts?

I do plan on carving up the fenders to fit the tires . But before that , I'll find the deepest offset wheel I can get away with on a 18" wheel ( I'll take pictures before and after I put in the new spindles ). I still have to put the spindles in first , and the Panther chassis spindles look like they will work with machined ball joints . And the rules for the Redline Time Attack say the tread has to be covered , so it might work out fine with the sway bar from hell going back there . Let me know If you want me to try out some bigger offsets and wheels ( 18" and 20" ) for you and your brake set-up . But I don't plan on using spacers at all on my car . What wheel did you use for the 295s you used ?

I think instead of going with Panther spindles, you could machine a rotor down to become a hub, slip the rotor over this new hub and fab up some caliper brackets. One guy did this on the Torino forum with great success.

I'm ultimately going to run 18x8s and 18x9s on the car, and I dont predict any fitment problems.

the 295 was a 295 50 15. This is a known tire to fit these cars (provided you don't have a rigged up exhaust that goes in the wheel well), on a 15x10.

Sorry for not sending pictures , but it's raining alot in Las Vegas and I'v been doing overtime and have'nt got a chance to do a thing to the car. There is'nt many people here that I would let weld a bracket for my front spindle . But I will look at it , where is this at ? Will he make me a spindle ?

It uses the OEM spindle. Its just a caliper bracket.