Mud race suspensions??

I'd like to know what everyone is running for suspension systems for mud racing. I have a 6" suspension lift in my truck, all leaf spring, skyjacker nitro shocks. I'd like to switch to a different shock in the front that will let the suspension drop fast when I launch. I know this won't be as good a s a 4 link but to stay in a certain class you have to run a stock style suspension. Any ideas?

I went with the emulsion 2.0's http://www.offroad-engineering.com/fox-shocks.html

Valved 60 compression 20 rebound, They work very well. I also went to three spring rear pack and a set of caltracs. It hooks very well and then lifts the front.

I went with the emulsion 2.0's http://www.offroad-engineering.com/fox-shocks.html

Valved 60 compression 20 rebound, They work very well. I also went to three spring rear pack and a set of caltracs. It hooks very well and then lifts the front.

How much travel did you go with on those shocks? and did you use anything special for the rear shocks?

I went with 8" travel up front. Caltrac wanted to sell me a set of rancho 9000'$$ set high to control body seperation on launch but, I had a set of BDS hydros I drilled and drained the oil out of and replaced it with some straight 40 weight oil. Works good!

Cool 40 weight oil !!


We use some 90/10's on front I believe. This is what they look like transfering.


http://i298.photobucket.com/albums/mm257/mccue74/th_9010.jpg (http://s298.photobucket.com/albums/mm257/mccue74/?action=view&current=9010.flv)

Looks like it transfers fairly well for not really having any weight on the back. I still run a full long box, tailgate, with fuel cell, batteries and rad in the back. Might have to look into a few of these options.

McQ, what brand are you running for shocks, and what travel do they have?

Myron,

I run a set of Cometition Engineering 3 way adjustable drag shocks that are actually for a mustang if I remember right. I set them so that I have about 2" of compression and 6" or droop. I know it's not much travel, but they work great and are set at the 90/10 setting.

Out back, I run the stock ranger main leaf on a set of Afco spring sliders, a custom set of chromoly ladder bars I made and QA1 coilovers. The coilovers and ladder bars really do the work and the leaf spring is there really for looks and to keep me within class rules. The truck transfers the weight so fast the front tires are barely in the mud. Here's a pick of it in action and you can see the drivers front is in the air while the passenger front is barely in it. The rear squats really hard and hooks like nobodys business!

http://i209.photobucket.com/albums/bb146/skjett/Trucks/Ranger/ranger-2.jpg

And the vid that pic is from:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PrrxOtdgKzY

Myron,

First I'd like to say don't laugh too much, I do stuff way cheap, have a lot of contacts and don't mind using pre-raced stuff. Usually my stuff is cleaner than this but I found some mud in the break calapers, sprayed it off and didn't pay attention to all the secondary spray making the engine and area pretty un-clean. So I have used patched headers, used shocks used about everything. Having said that.

The shocks are AFCO brand. Don't know where that is on the ladder of drag shocks but I know they work. All $20.00 worth!

I just mounted them on the base then plazma-ed two holes in the front shock towers I think on 60% compressed travel to allow for a more transfer than compression travel.

Then just ran a bolt through the tower and mounted the shock. Like the other guys are saying there is not much travel. I don't remember what the total is, but they are sitting with 17" loop to loop now with not quite 4" of compression left.

Our rear is just gas charged Rancho/Skyjackers or something similar. The fast guys here all seem to agree to put 90/10's up front and a good gas shock in the rear so it keeps up with the track, so that's what we have tried to do. It's probably not the best, but I know it's not the worst.:D

http://i298.photobucket.com/albums/mm257/mccue74/shock2.jpg


http://i298.photobucket.com/albums/mm257/mccue74/shock.jpg

Did you take 1 leaf out of the front spring pack? I have a 5 leaf front and rear, I'll take 2 outta the back this winter, not sure if I'll remove any from the front.

Seems like the 90/10 ratio in the front is what might help the most??

Yes we took two out of the front and I was thinking two out of the rear also (maybe three) which put us down to three in the front and four in the back. I would probably take one more out of the rear to improve the transfer even more but the bed can touch the tires on some tracks already so lifting the bed would be in order.

Didn't take long though to bend the passenger side down just from stalling it at the line. So I had to put one back on that side just to make the truck sit level. Now both sides are bent from landing I believe. I should put some new springs under it (front) but these are so weak they flex well for transfer..

The guys that I have seen around here that transfer well use 90/10's and soft suspension on both ends. I think your right I to think the 90/10's will probabaly help the most.

In the rear I have seen lots of different ideas, two basic extremes. Hard (preloaded), and soft so that it'll squat and transfer the weight. I have seen very fast trucks do both so I really don't know which is better. You can tell the preloaded guys, their rear ends usually sit lower and when they leave, their rear suspension almost doesn't budge. The fastest class two truck from indy this year, was a chevy that was beating almost everyone in his class by almost 1/2 a second. He had the softest suspension I ever saw, and he hooked unbelievably hard on the line. He had a huge transfer. I bet the rear end of his truck dropped as much as the front lifted which was over a foot! I'll see if I can get a clip of one of his runs. (we had a really poor camera angle but i'll see what I can find.


Do you use any traction assist?

http://i298.photobucket.com/albums/mm257/mccue74/th_whitey.jpg (http://s298.photobucket.com/albums/mm257/mccue74/?action=view&current=whitey.flv)


Whitey looks like he hooks, unloads, then rehooks which probably isn't the most effecient but the soft suspension is working for him. All that softness might keep the tires planted or something.

I have ladder bars in the rear, so if I take out some leafs, I'll just add a 1" block to keep the height as it was. The front may get two leafs removed and a 1" zero rate add-a-leaf from ORD. http://www.offroaddesign.com/catalog/Zero%20Rates.htm It will also allow you to move the axle ahead about an inch or so.

Hey Kjett, you wouldnt happen to have a number on those shocks would ya?

Not sure if this the right number but there is a 02600 stamped into the body of the shocks. I'll get pics of the front and rear suspensions tonight for you.

yeah it should be a C2600, looks like 14.1" extended and 9" collapsed.

ok on my 3/4 ton truck we removed the over load spring but still have the full spring pack on the front the springs are 6 in skyjackers with the ssky jacker shooks I do runn a full lenght set of ladder bars but I dont get any front end lift or transfer look at this vid so what could i do to help this out
http://www.supermotors.net/getfile/748671/thumbnail/sand-drag.jpg (http://www.supermotors.net/registry/media/748671)

ok on my 3/4 ton truck we removed the over load spring but still have the full spring pack on the front the springs are 6 in skyjackers with the ssky jacker shooks I do runn a full lenght set of ladder bars but I dont get any front end lift or transfer look at this vid so what could i do to help this out
http://www.supermotors.net/getfile/748671/thumbnail/sand-drag.jpg (http://www.supermotors.net/registry/media/748671)

You're running pretty much the exact same suspension that I have. My plan will be to remove 2 leafs from every spring pack (leaving 3 leafs for each) Add a set of 90/10 ratio shocks on the front and see where that puts me. The only crappy thing is I won't know if it works till spring since my tranny is coming out before the suspension gets tampered with.

Myron,

Here's my still muddy setup, but remember I'm running a 78 F-150 frame with the coils, which if you think about it is really a factory 3 link, and more stable than leaf springs, anyway, here's the front with my home brew shock tower. The bottom is mounted in the stock location on the radius arms:

http://i209.photobucket.com/albums/bb146/skjett/Trucks/Ranger/IMG00045-20091026-1727.jpg

These are the shocks I went with: http://www.summitracing.com/parts/CEE-2600/

Just cut the mounting bar out of the bottom and it will bolt up to your stock location.

A view at the rear. You can see my "monoleaf and 1" chromoly ladder bar setup:

http://i209.photobucket.com/albums/bb146/skjett/Trucks/Ranger/IMG00047-20091026-1727.jpg

The rear shackle has been removed and I run AFCO spring sliders, instead of the shackle and need for an axle housing pivot setup (like this: http://www.summitracing.com/parts/CEE-2030/ ). These are the sliders I use: http://www.summitracing.com/parts/AFC-20236S/ (they are for 2 1/2" springs only, so you'd need to change from your 3" springs to use them. The slider:

http://i209.photobucket.com/albums/bb146/skjett/Trucks/Ranger/IMG00048-20091026-1728.jpg

And the QA1 coiloves with adjustable mounts. If you think of it, I'm really running an asphault drag car setup. Diry coilovers:

http://i209.photobucket.com/albums/bb146/skjett/Trucks/Ranger/IMG00049-20091026-1728.jpg

Hope this helps. The setup workds awesome, the problem for me is some of the local tracks are changing rules this winter and next spring if I have coilovers, they will make me run in a Pro-Mod class (i.e. the blown rail cars!), so I'm keeping the sliders and adding 2 more leaves and putting a 50/50 drag shock on the back that is long enough and will give me decent travel.

Mudd dog,

Myron is on a good safe set up especially if your going to get air. (3 & 3) Myron have faith, It'll work !!

If your running those 300 ft Sand drags and thats it, alot of guys here will go to two leafs front & rear, with 90/10's. I noticed in your picture you may have to do some things with your rear tire clearance cause you should get up in those fenderwells.

KJett I like your setup. Nice coil tower set up & Those front shock mounts look good & stout!

But I'm not expert,,, and I can prove it !!Good luck !

Thanks. They are 3/16th 4x4 angle iron welded to the frame with 1/8" plate welded for braces.

McQ
all i am doing is the sand drags so all try removing a leaf or two out of each spring pack and see how that goes, I should be running smaller tires next year so i hope i dont eat my body for lunch. and which shocks should i look for that have enough lenght to them
thanks for all the help guys

Muddog,

If you are strictly running sand drags, and your class rules will allow suspension changes to things like coilovers, then I'd look close at my setup. Not saying that a regular leaf spring setup won't work or that I have the best thing out there, but I can tell you that since I made the change to what I have now, the truck has never hooked harder or launched straighter! Food for though....

Kjett
have to run leafs or get bumped up a class, and right now cant afford that must guys in that class or close to 800HP in light trucks I am close to 550HP and weigh about 5200 but i still run 5.90 at 62mph

Ah, I completely understand. I'm gonna add 2 leafs on each side to my mono setup and switch from the coilovers to regular 50/50 shocks this winter because a bunch of tracks are changing rules so that even if I have leaf springs, the simple addition of coilovers bumps me to pro-mod class, which is where they allow blowers and NOS.

Mud Dog,

I didn't get a set made for ford truck. Actually most I have seen at mud races are not either. I just got a used set of 90/10's off a drag race guy for $20.00 and made them fit. (See above pictures) Kjett did a better job than I did of mounting them. As you can see you don't get a ton of travel out of them but you really don't need a ton. The video's above of the Bomb and Kjetts truck show'em working. I SEE YOU ARE ON A BUDGET TOO ! I sent you a pm about some other stuff.

I guess my shocks were for a Buick Apollo, not a rustang like I thought. The summit racing version of the same shock is like $30/ea vs. the $43/ea for the Competition Engineering. Here's the summit version if you want to do it on the cheaper:

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/SUM-G7600/

Figure a good set of truck shocks cost that much or more, and this gives you the adjustability for track conditions. The biggest thing is making the new upper mount, which is fairly simple if you have a grinder, welder and stepped drill bit.

I see that comp engineering has a set that are about 21" fully extended, and 16" fully compressed, thats as close as you'll get I think. Mine are at about 24" when on flat ground. Still would have to make a top shock mount but thats no big deal.

summit racing brand http://www.summitracing.com/parts/SUM-G7700/
Internal Design Monotube
Adjustable Yes
Gas Charged No
Bushing Material Rubber
Bushing Color Black
Boot Included No
Extended Length (in) 21.690 in.
Collapsed Length (in) 12.840 in.
Body Diameter (in) 1.630 in.
Upper Mount Stud
Lower Mount Eyelet
Quantity Sold individually.

There ya go, now get to work! I'll be busy this winter with a cage build, cam upgrade and more head work for the new cam, then changing radiator mounts with the new cage. But before I do all that, I may be doing a whole body swap. I came across a truck that is in better shape for cheap.

summit racing brand http://www.summitracing.com/parts/SUM-G7700/
Internal Design Monotube
Adjustable Yes
Gas Charged No
Bushing Material Rubber
Bushing Color Black
Boot Included No
Extended Length (in) 21.690 in.
Collapsed Length (in) 12.840 in.
Body Diameter (in) 1.630 in.
Upper Mount Stud
Lower Mount Eyelet
Quantity Sold individually.


Those are for the rear. I'm hoping to find some with those lengths for the front.

rear shock http://www.summitracing.com/parts/SUM-G7703/
Internal Design Monotube
Adjustable Yes
Gas Charged No
Bushing Material Rubber
Bushing Color Black
Boot Included No
Extended Length (in) 23.620 in.
Collapsed Length (in) 14.150 in.
Body Diameter (in) 1.630 in.
Upper Mount Eyelet
Lower Mount Eyelet
Quantity Sold individually.

my bad on the first link

These are the ones I seen

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/CEE-2647/

front http://www.summitracing.com/parts/CEE-2647/

Brand Competition Engineering
Manufacturer's Part Number 2647
Part Type Shocks and Struts
Product Line Competition Engineering Adjustable Drag Shocks
Summit Racing Part Number CEE-2647

Internal Design Monotube
Adjustable Yes
Gas Charged No
Bushing Material Rubber
Bushing Color Black
Boot Included No
Extended Length (in) 20.700 in.
Collapsed Length (in) 15.900 in.
Body Diameter (in) 2.000 in.
Upper Mount Stud
Lower Mount Bar pin
Quantity Sold individually.

So, Is the general consensus that about 6" of travel will be ok? For a 90/10 on the front.

For a straight line mud drag truck, yes. For a truck that runs the strteet as well, no.

Kjett do you think a set of limiting straps/bump stops might be in order as well? Some of the pits we run in up here get pretty damn rough sometimes!!

We have a cheap set up that is homogenized, but seems to work. I’m sure there is a text book answer but my dog at out text book.

We have about 4 1/2 inches or so compression, and about 5 1/2 inches on extension from where it sits weighted. So that would be 10 inches of total travel I believe. They sure aren’t what you’d be used to on a regular 4x4 truck but we noticed an immediate transfer improvement with leaf spring removal and using the 90/10’s.

Yes to both! The bump stops set at about 1.5" up travel, and I use 3/16" aircraft cable with stainless loops, double clamped on each end. Check bruno's post about his setup, I believe it's the Competition Engineering deal. Hindsight what it is, I should have gone that route.

We have a cheap set up that is homogenized, but seems to work. I’m sure there is a text book answer but my dog at out text book.

We have about 4 1/2 inches or so compression, and about 5 1/2 inches on extension from where it sits weighted. So that would be 10 inches of total travel I believe. They sure aren’t what you’d be used to on a regular 4x4 truck but we noticed an immediate transfer improvement with leaf spring removal and using the 90/10’s.


Any kind of part number on what you have? I haven't been able to find a "cheaper" 90/10 with anymore than about 6.5".

Guess I'm about three inches short. (Story of my life!)


I was sure that I mounted them in the 60/40 compressed position but it looks like I've mounted them in the 60/40 extended position. It was one of those 3am lets get it done nights.

Just got off the phone with the AFCO tech guy cause my numbers weren't coming up anywhere. He was very informational and didn't hesitate. He said this part number is referenced as "12-7-91" Afco 90/10 front racing shock with 7" of travel.The cost is 74.00 each. He said he can get 9 inch shocks but you have to call him and they go for a nice 167.95 each.

So I'm going to compress my brackets a little more.

I just checked out AFCO's site and they're showing 410 bucks a shock!! They must have a different set thats not showing there or something. I might have to give them a call since the comp. engineering ones have just over 5" travel which is real short!!

Myron, the tech guy checked stock for me and he said he had 140 or so of them. I told him I couldn't find those numbers on their site either. He reverified that the 12-79-1 is the correct number and I asked him if he had any other longer. He said just the custom ones for 167.95. So the 74.00 shocks might be the ticket!

That is the main reason why my shock towers are so short. When you start getting into custom taller drag shocks, it gets pricy. And in reality, keep your compression limit to a minimum with the bump stops and give yourself more extension. When the truck transfers the weight, it will help keep you straighter and the 90/10 setting will take just a bit longer for the front to settle, keeping the weight on the rear. You guys also have big lifts to clear your tires, I am running a stock coil spring on the stock tower in a 150 frame, with a 3" body lift on the ranger body. I sit a good 6" or so lower than most trucks in my class with the same tires. The front's fit the 38.5's nicely, but I had to cut the rear openings to clear the cut 39.5's....

For reference on how low it actually sits:

http://i209.photobucket.com/albums/bb146/skjett/Trucks/Ranger/0523091416a.jpg

Wow that is low ! Nice...I like it!

Here is a link to a site that has shocks that look just like mine for 44.00 each. This part number is different being "1274FBGS"I'd check with afco to see that the rate (90/10) is the same and the 7" length. If so they're about 1/2 price !!!

They say no returns cause they are the old model. Heck my truck was founded on "OLD MODELS!" and even some "Obseletes!"

Wow that is low ! Nice...I like it!

Thanks. The top of the cab on 38.5/39.5's is just a little over 6' high. It's actually sort of a clone of Rob's (Monsterbaby on here) old ranger. Granted he had much more motor that I have, but the setup is similar with the exception of the rear suspension. He didn't have the leaf spring, where I kept it as a monoleaf to fudge around and keep in class rules. Last year the tracks got wise to what I and a few others were doing, and have gotten together and are changing rules for next year to say no coilovers except in Pro Mod class and up.

yeah I get what you're sayin Kjett, all good info that I'll definitly be using!!

My roof is at 7'3" on the 39.5s, I was gonna just pull out the leafs and drop the truck, but I'll be adding some of those zero rate add-a-leafs to it from ORD just to keep the same hieght, maybe no one will notice a difference until I launch??

Wow that is low ! Nice...I like it!

Here is a link to a site that has shocks that look just like mine for 44.00 each. This part number is different being "1274FBGS"I'd check with afco to see that the rate (90/10) is the same and the 7" length. If so they're about 1/2 price !!!

They say no returns cause they are the old model. Heck my truck was founded on "OLD MODELS!" and even some "Obseletes!"

Hey Jeff, wheres the linky?? HAHA

I think the old model of him forgot the linky....

I think the old model of him forgot the linky....

Or maybe it is obselete?? BAHAHAHA just teasin ya Jeff;)

In my opinion, ya'll need to get away from those front leaf springs and go to coil and radius arm set-ups. It's been my experience that they don't work near as well, much harder to set up, and still a handful when you start going fast. I run 3.5's in 200 ft of mud in a 5000 lb truck. Mine hooks fairly decent!

That's what I've been trying to tell them.

That little picture of mine is on the HI-GEAR shift. As soon as I figure out how to load pictures here, I'll put more up! I bet their leaf spring trucks won't do that!

Get a photobucket account, load them up there then link them here.

Man, I'm lucky to be able to even power this thing up!

Sorry it was getting late and I put my head on the pillow.

I pulled my stone tablet back out and found the below etched link:

http://www.speedwaymotors.com/Garage-Sale-Afco-Fixed-Bearing-Non-Coil-Over-Shock,35485.html

Kjett & Critters,

You guys are right, no doubt. Coil fronts are superior to leafs in just about every way that I can think of. Transfer is so much better, the compression rate is even better. I think Myron might have suggested that it would move him up a class,(or mud dog), but I think for sure it would move us up a class. We have to use "Stock suspensions" it can have modifications, but the modifications aren't spelled out.(minimum leafs are 3 though, no links, coil overs, sliders etc...) we run steel heads, 17" of vacuum, stock distributor, radiator, battery, alt, water pump heater core all stock. So "basically we run stock classes then bump up and chase guys like you!! (notice I didn't say catch:D)

So I would have to argue that coil springs came on the front of 1979 F350's. I'm not sure they didn't but I've never seen one and would have to win an arguement that they did to fit in the class.


Critters that's a way fast truck you have, especially at 5000 lbs. We are a full 4 tenth's plus off of you and weigh 700 lbs less!! I'd sure like to see some video of how it acts going that fast, that quick. Must be a blast to drive!

Just wondering Kjett or Critters, either of you guys running those coil fronts on 60's?

Yeah I don't know if swapping coils in the front would still be considered a stock suspension since the 250-350 fords always had leafs in the front. Might be a 'gray' area??

It's simple, get you the stock coil buckets and radius arms from a late 70's f150 and bolt it to your 350 frame. Tell them you have a 150 truck with 350 badges. I did a coil sprung 60 for my buddy's 79 bronco. Itks heavy, but works great. In reality, a 60 is way overkill for straight line mud bogs. Get the weight to transfer like it should and a 44 is more than enough. There's a guy in SC that has a 700+ ci motor running a chromoly shafted d30 with no problems. His times are in the 2 second range @ 200'

kjett is right! Coils and radius arms are STOCK FORD suspensions. Shouldn't matter half ton, 3/4 ton or 1 ton. If your tracks are that picky, they have too much time on their hands, or too many CRY-BABY racers. That's our main problem around here! CRY CRY CRY until the track classes you out just to shut the crying mouths! I always say, "RUN WHAT YA BRUNG and HOPE YA BRUNG ENOUGH"!

Kjett,

We race a lot of diffferent track with different rules. In our club the swap would be fine but many others have rules for us like this:

BODY(INTERIOR)-- MUST BE: ORIGINAL EQUIPMENT MAKE, MODEL, YEAR

ALLOWED: (1) BENCH OR (2) BUCKET SEATS, FLOOR SHIFTER

NOT ALLOWED: GUTTING





BODY(EXTERIOR)-- MUST BE: ORIGINAL EQUIPMENT FOR MAKE, MODEL, YEAR w/FRONT & REAR BUMPER

w/APPROVED CLEVIS

ALLOWED: APPROVED FUNCTIONAL FLATBED

NOT ALLOWED: BODY SWAPS, GUTTING





FRAME-- MUST BE: ORIGINAL EQUIPMENT FOR MAKE, MODEL, YEAR

NOT ALLOWED: CUTTING, GUTTING, TUBE FRAMES





AXLES-- MUST BE: OEM AXLE SWAPS ALLOWED WITH LEAF SPRING CONFIGURATION ONLY

NOT ALLOWED: RELOCATING





SUSPENSION-- MUST BE: ORIGINAL EQUIPMENT FOR MAKE, MODEL, YEAR

ALLOWED: LIFT KITS

NOT ALLOWED COIL OVERS, 3 OR 4-LINK, TRACTION BARS, RELOCATING, FLOATING

SUSPENSION





EXHAUST-- MUST BE: MUST EXIT UNDER THE VEHICLE PAST DRIVERS COMPARTMENT EQUIPPED

WITH MIN. 12" MUFFLERS

ALLOWED: HEADERS

NOT ALLOWED: RACE MUFFLERS, ZOOMIES

Does nobody run half ton axles?

They run 1/2 ton axles but can't swap out to the 1/2 ton set up. If you have a 1/2 ton they're going to let you put one ton springs and front end under it. But they are not going to let you swap to the coil front benefit with the heavier axles going that direction or going down. (Basically chevy style rules)

They say 1/2 ton axles with coils isn't a swap so it's fine.

They are just catching us! we went to a track one time that my buddy got bumped up in aluminum head class with his Doves because he swapped out his 44 independent 1/2 ton front with a 44 solid front. (They called it an axle upgrade!)

I'm sure not saying any of these guys rules are right. It's just that we travel to race, and basically if your going to do that you have to have a stock vacuum truck or just go ahead and build an Outlaw Pro to fit in everyones rules.:mad:


Critters - I was going to ask you, do you ever share any of the same mud with the Wren's or Toodles out here in the East?

Never heard of them. I normally have to run against blower cars like HOSTILE PROJECTILE or the nitrous trucks from the east coast. The ones that have trucks to run my class are too scared to, they go to another local track and suck the owners' balls so that they will class me out! CRY-BABY little BITCHES! I imagine ya'll have your share of them too!!!

Well not so directly put, we do have a few tracks that will class the fast trucks up, which is not too cool. If you fit, you fit, if you don't, you don't !!

I don't blame the aluminum headed trucks that beat us. But I do wish some tracks would recognize for instance that there is a difference between aluminum heads and steel heads.

If they're not showing you in black and white why you can't run, that is straight politics, and thats a shame. I have seen it too.
Sorry to hear about that.

Well some eastern & east coast guys come to our race in Peoria. Maybe you'd know them by their truck names? Mudmissle, Time Bandit, Mudgician, After Hours, Dirty Sanchez, Boogey Man? Any of those names come to your tracks?

Can you kinda say what pushes your 5000 lb truck to a 3.5 200 foot time? Without being too specific of course. Just what maybe someone might see from looking at your truck from the outside at the races?

are rules are about the same but we cant run alum heads (in less your a cry baby chevy guy) yea they check me pretty good they even check my rad support to make sure my truck came with a 460 but i am going to try a mono leaf in back with some differnant shocks up front till the CRY-BABY racers start bitching again. but the guys that put big bocks in chevy 1500 and blazers are ok or the guy with a newer dodge ram club cab with a bored and stroked small block is ok this truck is heavier then mine and is just as fast but he is ok ( but i am the new guy that came in and Kicked the crap out of them last year)



BODY(INTERIOR)-- MUST BE: ORIGINAL EQUIPMENT MAKE, MODEL, YEAR

ALLOWED: (1) BENCH OR (2) BUCKET SEATS, FLOOR SHIFTER

NOT ALLOWED: GUTTING





BODY(EXTERIOR)-- MUST BE: ORIGINAL EQUIPMENT FOR MAKE, MODEL, YEAR w/FRONT & REAR BUMPER



ALLOWED: APPROVED FUNCTIONAL FLATBED

NOT ALLOWED: BODY SWAPS, GUTTING





FRAME-- MUST BE: ORIGINAL EQUIPMENT FOR MAKE, MODEL, YEAR

NOT ALLOWED: CUTTING, GUTTING, TUBE FRAMES





AXLES-- MUST BE: OEM AXLE SWAPS ALLOWED WITH LEAF SPRING CONFIGURATION ONLY ( I can not do this )

NOT ALLOWED: RELOCATING





SUSPENSION-- MUST BE: ORIGINAL EQUIPMENT FOR MAKE, MODEL, YEAR

ALLOWED: LIFT KITS

NOT ALLOWED COIL OVERS, 3 OR 4-LINK, TRACTION BARS, RELOCATING, FLOATING

SUSPENSION

I know MUDMISSILE. I don't care who knows what's in my truck. It's an all steel body 1948 F-1 on an 86 Bronco chassis, coil-over stock radius arm Dana 44 with 513 gears, rear 9 inch 35 spline with 513's floating, sliding, custom home-built ladder bars with mono-leaf, C-6 with Merkle brake, 205 transfer, ATI conv. Cheetah shifter with ACD air shift, 512 ci , Blue thunder heads, C&S dominator, Victor intake all matched, REED solid roller 721 lift, Scorpion rockers, JOMAR girdles, Cut 38.5 boggers on front, 39.5 cut boggers on rear with wide five Weld Wheels. There's more that I can't remember right now. Fixing to lower it again, has no lift of any kind on it. Gonna channel the cab down over the frame to get as low as I can. Lifting a fast 4x4 is meaningless at best.

Yes you sure spelled it out. Thanks. With your running gear and still tiping the scales at 5, that 48 body must be a roll cage in itself!:D

Sounds like it's well built. I love your gears!! I think that's the best set up with the 205 and C-6, with 38's to 40's ! Trying to talk some others into going that route!"M"

With the 40's does your truck like the 160 ft tracks better than the 200 feet tracks?

One more question Critters, actually two.

With your air shifter are you having any luck getting it to make both shifts or do you just use it to make the 1st to 2nd shift?

Also do you know... if you should ever want to take manual control of your shifter like to pull it back down into 2nd can you over ride the air and simply pull it back down?

Thanks and nice truck, can't wait to see some bigger pictures of it!

The air shifter will shift both times, my girlfriend uses it ( only in there so she can drive ) I don't know about pulling it back to second, never have to, she buzzes 7000 in high gear from 30 feet on. The faster you can get to high gear, the faster you will go. I'll post some videos as soon as I figure out this photobucket. It likes both distances equally, the only time we run 160 is at one track that has no shut-down area for us fast trucks, most trucks don't it make all the way, even with 44's and 49's!

Sounds like both a hand full, and a lot of fun !!!

Let's get photobucket fired up !!!:D

Dang Critters, I thought yours was a light weight rig!! Pretty impresive!!

The mud we run in here is bad if you don't have atleast some lift. A few guys were running with no lift last year and pushed alot of mud with their grills. But if we could get into some fast track stuff then the lift is pointless and top heavy. Most of the events around here are more of a bog type, so no lift usually means no full passes LOL. I lowered my truck about 2" in the rear last spring, and might lower it some more if we get into more fast tracks.

yep chevys usually get to have whatever they want. I think those guys have something wrong with their brain, whats some damn special bout a chevy. I've seen my share of chevys go in a pit and come out with the cab going one way an the bed going the other and stay that way for the rest of their lives, never sen a ford do that. I had a guy tell me one time that i needed to put a sbc in my 79 ford. needless to say my 429 smoked his *** 3 times in the mud

I'm going to help Critter out with a year old video (at least) of his truck on UNCUT 39.5 DOT's.

This is the first pass after we put the brake in the tranny.

http://i50.photobucket.com/albums/f303/rklessdriver/ZX/th_MOV00759.jpg (http://s50.photobucket.com/albums/f303/rklessdriver/ZX/?action=view&current=MOV00759.flv)

It's a bit faster on cut tires.

BTW... Critter your cutting C&S short on cred for that Aersol Billet Dominator. CSI does make a nice waterpump but they only dream of building carbs this good. :-)
Will

That looks good! Good holeshot, shifts and top end speed! Looks just like mine, ONLY A LOT FASTER !! and my hole shot isn't so good, but I make up for it with my track speed at the end,,,,,,well actually it's a lot slower too!

Nice classy truck too!


Thanks for posting for Critters!

Thanks Billy, I've had the PIG FLU and my brain is fried right now, can't think straight! The mud in this video is about 2 feet deep, this is by far not a fast track, the "B" class full-size trucks with 38's normally only make it to 125 feet. My truck was built for the "C" class, one step up.

Critter, nice ride! Whats your stall? I'm switching to 4000, but thinking that since the new motor is gonna spin to 7k, I may want to step to to 4500-5k.

Billy, where you at in NOVA? I'm over in Springfield. If you are going down to NC to race, then it might not be a bad drive for me to go down next spring.

It flashes to 54, video is over 2 years old!

that was 2 feet deep??? Holy crap, I change my mind, that was a WICKED run!! It looked like wet dirt with that thing flying across the track!!

Kjett, go with the 4500-5000. I have one in my truck, rev limiter set to 6800, seems to work pretty good, will work much better once I get the Tbrake in the trans.

I emailed Afco about the ones posted above at speedway, This is what he said
"The 1274FB’s that you are looking at are a 7 inch stroke shock with a straight 4 compression and rebound. This shock is 13 inches compressed and 20 inches extended."

My question is, what does straight 4 compression and rebound mean?

I actually just call Afco on those shocks as well, I didnt bother to ask what it ment but I think it means its valved like any other standard style shock for daily driving, but I'm not real sure.

The number he gave me for the 7" stroke, 90/10 ratio shock was a 1279-1FB. They have a dealer not too far away from me, he can have them ordered in, 1-2 weeks. Basically same price as the Competition Engineering shocks but with 2" more travel. I think I may end up going with them.

Yes mine say 1279-1 and the Afco tech said they were 90/10's. I just thought the other's might be a good deal if they were equals. So they are not,,, sorry guys.

I know my 1279-1's you can pull it open with two fingers and you have to about lay on them for about a minute to get them to close. Pretty neat!!

Ok are these front or rear shocks and just checked ebay didnt see any there i think i could make this work for me just need to get off my butt and do it

These are for the front. You may have to contact Afco direct like Myron did. They make several that look identical, so please make sure the numbers are right!

Critter, nice ride! Whats your stall? I'm switching to 4000, but thinking that since the new motor is gonna spin to 7k, I may want to step to to 4500-5k.

Billy, where you at in NOVA? I'm over in Springfield. If you are going down to NC to race, then it might not be a bad drive for me to go down next spring.

I'm in Woodbridge/Dale City.

It's about a 5-6hr drive from NOVA to ENC where we race. I used to get down there every weekend, but gas $$$ and time are in much shorter supply than in previous years.
Will

Woodbridge! do you ever run any of the bogs down in Stafford/Spotsylvania/Fredericksburg areas? Whats your truck look like?

Woodbridge! do you ever run any of the bogs down in Stafford/Spotsylvania/Fredericksburg areas? Whats your truck look like?

No, I've never raced down there.

My truck is an 89 Cherokee, 4.0L, 4" lift, 34X9.50 TSL Swampers, 8.8 Ford Explorer rear.

I brought it up here to drive around on the street for the winter of 2006. Had only been stationed up here for a few months at the time. Didn't know they even had a mud bogg. Took it back to NC when summer came back around and raced it in A class for the 2007 season but have only run it a few times since then. Work has me traveling the country a bunch and I really have no time to get down there. Any time off I have is currently dedicated to working on my drag car. Currently my truck is sitting under a tree in Critters yard...
Will

We'll have to meet up! There are a bunch up here that I run. Almost 1 every weekend if I wanted from April until October.

I went to the fairgrounds year before last. Nasty hole! Do ya'll run hill-n-hole or flat track?

I run mostly flat tracks with the exception of the pit at vamotorspeedwaym

I won't put mine in another hill-n-hole, don't like being upside-down!!

Their hill is not that bad, really. Nowhere near as big as dennis andersons place. We need to start a new thread that lists all the ec tracks with websites and schedules so we can all meet up next spring!

Ran a Dennis's track back in June in the SUPER-UNLIMITED class against a dozen or so rails and placed either 5th or 6th.

When I talked to Dennis this past October, he said to bring my ranger down, but it would have to run with the unlimited motored pro mods because of the coilovers, so this winter they come out and the mono leaf gets a few more and a set of 50/50 shocks.

I'll be making more trips that way when I get my BIG engine finished!

Yeah, I know what you mean. I have a crap ton of work to do on the ranger over the winter. Mainly the full cage, body swap for a better shape cab, and final motor upgrades.

Since Billy is an engine builder, I might have to enlist his help when I'm ready to tune the motor!

edit: whoops!

I know MUDMISSILE. I don't care who knows what's in my truck. It's an all steel body 1948 F-1 on an 86 Bronco chassis, coil-over stock radius arm Dana 44 with 513 gears, rear 9 inch 35 spline with 513's floating, sliding, custom home-built ladder bars with mono-leaf, C-6 with Merkle brake, 205 transfer, ATI conv. Cheetah shifter with ACD air shift, 512 ci , Blue thunder heads, C&S dominator, Victor intake all matched, REED solid roller 721 lift, Scorpion rockers, JOMAR girdles, Cut 38.5 boggers on front, 39.5 cut boggers on rear with wide five Weld Wheels. There's more that I can't remember right now. Fixing to lower it again, has no lift of any kind on it. Gonna channel the cab down over the frame to get as low as I can. Lifting a fast 4x4 is meaningless at best.

Okay I reread all this thread:

I am going to do the Comp Eng 90-10 front shocks with my coil overs,
I was doing the 35 spline chromoly axles on rear and chromoly front shafts,
I run the same gears 5.13's but I run my T-case in HI 1-1. You run what ???
Engine will be a 557 shooting for 800hp minimum, your must be close to that also ?
I was just wondering exactly how your rear suspension is set up as that is what I really need to work on. Also do you like the Air shifter as I was going to use a Shiftnoid electric on a RPM operated switch with the 7AL-3 I use. Also use a Merkle Tranny & Brake my stall is 4500.

Another questions is if you are running the 5.13 gears and larger tires on the rear 39.5 vs 38.5 do you get any push or do you air the rear down so far that it is equal in actual tire height ? Sorry for all the questions.

Thanks Mark l.

How in HELL are you running the HI-side of the transfer? Are you only running one gear?

I assume you are running low range then ?
I come off the line @ 4400 RPM on brake and once the RPM hits 6000-6200 I hit 2nd gear and power through at 5800 or sometimes close to 6600-6800 depending on pit. My little 466 I estimate at 630ish hp. Here is a vid link see what you think.

This first run is 1-2-3 lo range & hit rev limit in 1st right away, 2nd run was 1st in Hi range only no shift & faster.

http://s260.photobucket.com/albums/ii18/OLDRED460/?action=view&current=AndrewDay2short.flv

Mostly I do a 1-2 shift in Hi range ASAP and let it buck.
Here is another vid link you can hear the 1-2 shift.

http://s260.photobucket.com/albums/ii18/OLDRED460/?action=view&current=neilburgraces002.flv

Do you think I would get better times with low range 5.13's and do the 1-2-3 ? The tire speed seems low to me ??

Thanks Mark

CritterF1,
Take a look at the wheel speeds & see what you think ???

CMRO we run 160-200 ft pits with 18-24" of supposed to be real sloppy mud.

I run 38.5 x 11.00 boggers with 5.13 ratios 466 w/approx 630hp, 4500 stall and come off tranny brake @ 3500-4500 rpm truck is a 79 f-150 approx 5000lbs.
Some guys run the 38.5 x 15 boggers on rear only, no cuts in our class, I tryed them but I probably don't have enough torque in thicker mud and lost time. Once I get my 800+ hp engine going I'll try again.

First couple races did low range and 1-2-3 ASAP @ 6800rpm
Tire Speed
1st = 30mph
2nd = 51mph
3rd = 75mph

Then switched to hi range and 1-2 ASAP @ 6800rpm
Tire Speed
1st = 60 mph
2nd = 101 mph
This seemed to work very well so I stuck with it. I should have tryed lo range with the wider 38.5 x 15 on rear but didn't have a chance last year.

Most of my competition (545" engines) runs 38.5 also but run 4.56 gears in low, 6800rpm
and do 1-2-3 shift
Tire Speed
1st = 34 mph
2nd = 58mph
3rd = 84mph

Now I have for two years in a row finished second place overall using hi range and a 1-2 shift against 3 - 545's, other 468" and a 572" all doing lo range and 4.56's. I do seem to spin alot more than anyone else but been competitive. I can't say for sure what the magic combo is but I know I need more torque for 2nd gear to get the RPM up at end of the track and also work on hooking up non cut boggers at the line coming off the line @ 4000+ RPM.

Anyone got any ideas for launching harder with boggers not cut. I already have battery in back, fuel cel right at back, going to put radiator in back. Possibly add 100-150lbs to rear bumper with 35 spline rear chromoly axles. We are not allowed 4-links or moving engine back more than +/- 1" or so.


FWIW Mark

Any info or input greatly appreciated what do you boys thinks ??

Thanks Mark

Any info or input greatly appreciated what do you boys thinks ??

Thanks Mark

I'll talk with you more on Sunday. I should be in the shop fairly early, pulling engine out of the '48.

The 557 in high range with those gears should do well , as long as you can get it to hook!

The 557 in high range with those gears should do well , as long as you can get it to hook!

If I can make it hook ? Thats the $5 question. Oh Oh, I see some of my competetion has found me again LOL

Mark

You canuks are funny.... lol

Mark

wheelspeed isnt everything if your not getting bite you can turn it 100+ mph and still go slower than if you turn it 60 mph and are biting something. on the other hand you cant be gear so low that when you do bite you can only turn 45 mph. I've tried about every combo in my truck and there is a sweet spot that works best for me and you will need to play with alot of options to find it for yours but I believe you can go faster in low range with the right gears. Just as a reference I tried both high and low at a track this year taht was very slick had 65 mph wheel speed in low range and over 110 in high went faster in low range because the tires actully had time to grip something.

Thanks for the reply,

I think I will give the low range a try again, but I am definitely going to be getting a new shifter so I don't miss shifts as my old shifter is worn out I think.

Later Mark

I have a turbo action cheetah on my c-6 cant miss with it if adjusted correctly just slap and go its gated and spring loaded

Mark

wheelspeed isnt everything if your not getting bite you can turn it 100+ mph and still go slower than if you turn it 60 mph and are biting something. on the other hand you cant be gear so low that when you do bite you can only turn 45 mph. I've tried about every combo in my truck and there is a sweet spot that works best for me and you will need to play with alot of options to find it for yours but I believe you can go faster in low range with the right gears. Just as a reference I tried both high and low at a track this year taht was very slick had 65 mph wheel speed in low range and over 110 in high went faster in low range because the tires actully had time to grip something.

this is an excellent point, especially if you have to run uncut boggers. Once you're able to run cuts or paddles then I can see 100mph+ wheelspeed being a MAJOR benefit. But with uncut, sometimes they just can't grip enough to get you moving.

I noticed that on my 35's since I am fairly light in weight. They would just spin on the slick clay and not grip. The 38.5's were able to get down and dig me through. This is on the lo side of the 205 and 4.10 gears.