The Most Cubic Inches Out Of A Stock Block? [Archive] - 460 Ford Forum

: The Most Cubic Inches Out Of A Stock Block?


MrScharfenberger
09-29-2010, 09:19 PM
What is the most cubic inches that you can get out of a stock block? Also what would the bore and stroke numbers be for it? I was just wondering if you could get over 600 cubes but I'm thinking probably not otherwise I would have seen the stroker combo on here by now.

And how are the big boys getting 800+ cubic inches out of those pro-stock motors? Are they using plates ( I don't know what else to call them) in between the block and heads? Or are they just using high dollar blocks that you can bore and stroke the heck out of? Just curious... I'd like to go much larger than my current 521 cid build on the next motor. Thanks in advance!!

White Lightning
09-29-2010, 10:04 PM
557"= +.080" and a 4.5" stroke (aftermarket) crank. The block should be soniced first though. Each block is a little different. The "Mountain Motor" cubes are arrived at with after market blocks and long stroke after market cranks. Conveniently, an off-set ground stock crank (ground to 2.200" journal size, BBC size) and an +.080" over bore nets you 514"....quite a good combination if you ask me and not a lot of $. I had a 514" in my jet boat that was in the neighborhood of 700 horse, all on a 2 bolt block and a offset ground stock cast crank. Hope that helps.
Rob

bigblok86ranger
09-29-2010, 10:08 PM
I think I have heard of 572 cubes with a factory block 4.620"stroke and 4.440" bore. I believe that some block clearancing needs to be done at that stroke.

I believe the prostock motors are tall deck blocks and are mucho $$$$! I bet Cale could tell you or Jon Kaase or even Lem Evans.

2slow
09-29-2010, 10:24 PM
I think I have heard of 572 cubes with a factory block 4.620"stroke and 4.440" bore. I believe that some block clearancing needs to be done at that stroke.

I believe the prostock motors are tall deck blocks and are mucho $$$$! I bet Cale could tell you or Jon Kaase or even Lem Evans. for the BIG cubes --C&C aulim. tall decs . 572 are 4.5 by 4.5

rmcomprandy
09-29-2010, 10:43 PM
I've built a couple 576's.

Half filled block,
4.470" bore,
4.590" stroke; offset ground 4.300" stroke FRPP cranks.

The piston CD was 1.215" so, the ring stack is a NO nitrous piston.

White Lightning
09-29-2010, 10:46 PM
Man, that must be one SKINNY cylinder wall!! lol
Rob

DJOHAGIN
09-29-2010, 10:59 PM
I've built a couple 576's.

Half filled block,
4.470" bore,
4.590" stroke; offset ground 4.300" stroke FRPP cranks.

The piston CD was 1.215" so, the ring stack is a NO nitrous piston.

C'mon Randy, you know that combo wants to be hit with a 400 hp nitrous shot.

:D

Dave

White Lightning
09-29-2010, 11:10 PM
C'mon Randy, you know that combo wants to be hit with a 400 hp nitrous shot.

:D

Dave

LOL BANZAII!!!!!!! A DEFINATE one HIT wonder!
Rob

coupe
09-29-2010, 11:45 PM
So whats the max stroke a 10.300 deck H. block can take?

strokedmyford
09-30-2010, 09:24 AM
So whats the max stroke a 10.300 deck H. block can take?


4.75 stroke but the only thing available is a custom billet

CarsByCarl
09-30-2010, 11:01 AM
572 CID = 4.5 stroke x 4.5 bore. No special clearance or parts needed. Just need to find a block with thick enough cylinder walls....which isn't nearly as uncommon as some might lead you to believe.

604 CID = 4.75 stroke x 4.5 bore. Custom crank and suitable block, but totally do-able.

MrScharfenberger
09-30-2010, 12:53 PM
What length rods are needed for a 4.75 stroke to make 604 cubic inches?

crittersf1
09-30-2010, 01:51 PM
The length of rod is not in this equation. Bore and stroke only.

Paul Kane
09-30-2010, 02:09 PM
I'm currently collecting parts for a 585 cubic inch stock-block engine. In this combo, the rod ratio is better than a 6.8-rodded 557. :cool:

Paul

CarsByCarl
09-30-2010, 02:11 PM
What length rods are needed for a 4.75 stroke to make 604 cubic inches?

You could make it happen with a 6.700 rod. Would also require a semi-custom piston too.

Mark O'Neal
09-30-2010, 02:23 PM
You could make it happen with a 6.700 rod. Would also require a semi-custom piston too.


Carl...I have to correct you.

"also" and "too" in the same sentence are redundant...:D

CarsByCarl
09-30-2010, 03:21 PM
Carl...I have to correct you.

"also" and "too" in the same sentence are redundant...:D

That's what happens when I make an attempt at multi-tasking. Can't talk on the phone and type at the same time.

What happened, did you get tired of debating creationism vs. evolution?

CutawayAl
09-30-2010, 05:07 PM
A lot of people have gotten by with big over-bores on these blocks, but there are those that for one reason or another don't work out.

For a stock block I think it's best to get what you can from stroke, but not try to get every possible cubic inch from boring the cylinders a lot. The difference in power potential between .030 over and .080 over isn't a lot. In anything less than a serious race application you won't know, feel, or see the difference. Even if you don't experience a failure, thin cylinders don't seal as well as ones with a little more meat. And all things being equal, thin cylinder walls aren't as stable or durable. Beyond that, if you don't max the bores out there is a better chance of re-using the block in case a clean-up or rebuild is needed down the road.

hookin78
09-30-2010, 08:33 PM
I bought a set of main caps from a block last year and the individual had fully concreated the block and went 4.500 bore and drilled both back sides of the intake as to have the ability to flow water throught the rear intake water port and still flow ater through the heads still. Probably not the best thing to do but well..... he said he had run many blocks succesfully through the years that way, this was on a pulling truck engine. What issues could a guy experience i a build like this?

MrScharfenberger
09-30-2010, 09:03 PM
The length of rod is not in this equation. Bore and stroke only.

I know it is the bore and stroke that make up the cubic inches. I was just wondering what the best rod size was for the 604 cid motor.

TorinoStyle2
09-30-2010, 09:20 PM
I've seen a 588 cubic incher from a stock block (D0VE) and I've heard of larger 600+ from factory Boss 429 blocks.

strokedmyford
09-30-2010, 10:05 PM
I know it is the bore and stroke that make up the cubic inches. I was just wondering what the best rod size was for the 604 cid motor.

most engines that run a 4.75 stroke on a 10.3 deck use a 6.7 rod.

coupe
10-01-2010, 12:16 AM
most engines that run a 4.75 stroke on a 10.3 deck use a 6.7 rod.

Probably about the best way to get any decent ring package in it...

ccso640
10-01-2010, 12:50 AM
I had a DOVE-A block that sonic checked GOOD and was able to handle a 4.5 bore fine, I sold it to a forum member. I think the only safe and reliable big cube OEM block combo would be the 557, 4.440 bore, 4.50 stroke, 6.8 rod. I think if you are wanting more cubes, then you are going to end up investing alot in the block, and would be better off getting a Motorsports A460 block or the Eliminator Ultra or Premier block, which come with a 4.50 bore, and are capable of 4.70 bore. Chris

95lightiningguy
10-01-2010, 03:00 PM
Wow, some impressive #'s for stock blocks. Seems to me that being conservative on the amount of cutting you do on your block would be more advantageous in the long run just in case you have any problems, of course I have never built anything that could be called "max effort". Although tellin a chebby dude you got 600+ cubes out of a stock block and seein there face would almost be worth it. :D There is a guy runnin around here who says his BBC truck block is 545 ci. Ive heard BBC can only go to 535 max effort, is this true or is this guy blowing smoke. This is also a guy who says his chebby 4x4 will roast all four tires but always has an excuse not to.:rolleyes:

MrScharfenberger
10-01-2010, 04:02 PM
Chebby's go bigger. They have the ZZ 572 crate motor out now. Not sure if that is the biggest but I know they go at least to the 572's because you can buy them right over the counter now.

CutawayAl
10-01-2010, 04:33 PM
Ive heard BBC can only go to 535 max effort, is this true or is this guy blowing smoke.It depends on what block you use. The "regular" production BB Chevy blocks have short decks. That limits stroke/durability due to excessive rod angularity. And, the cylinder walls in "regular" production BB Chevy blocks aren't much thicker than they need to be. Aftermarket BB Chevy blocks are available with taller decks, thicker bores, higher cam placement for rod clearance with increased stroke, etc, etc.

bigblok86ranger
10-01-2010, 10:27 PM
496 is the largest with a production block from what I have been told and seen on a BBC (unless the block is sleeved). The 502 and larger are blocks that have siamesed bores to be able to accept the bigger bore so anything over 496 with a factory block and you are larger than what they can do. All 496 and larger GM combos are tall decks when using GM blocks I believe Merlin makes some short deck big bore blocks though.

strokedmyford
10-01-2010, 10:50 PM
some of the guys I race with have taken factory short deck gm blocks to 511cid and a tall deck truck blocks to 540cid. The truck blocks are .300 taller (10.2) the bores are like our 460 blocks you better check it before going crazy on an over bore.

MrScharfenberger
10-01-2010, 11:05 PM
I have been searching Google for a 4.75 stroke crank and can't seem to find what I'm looking for. Somebody in this thread was talking about a 5.00 inch stroke crank. I seem to have found one. Will this fit in a stock 460 block or is this some type of aftermarket block race crank? Below is the link.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=360249087775&crlp=1_263602_263622&ff4=263602_263622&viewitem=&guid=3e2bc2381290a06c1c407a30ff79d3a6&rvr_id=148278296279&ua=%3F*I8&itemid=360249087775

If anybody has a link to a 4.75 stroke crank send it over please.

bigblok86ranger
10-01-2010, 11:13 PM
The only company that I have heard of making the long arms is Bryant but just what I have heard of.

curiousgeorge
10-01-2010, 11:14 PM
I bought a set of main caps from a block last year and the individual had fully concreated the block and went 4.500 bore and drilled both back sides of the intake as to have the ability to flow water throught the rear intake water port and still flow ater through the heads still. Probably not the best thing to do but well..... he said he had run many blocks succesfully through the years that way, this was on a pulling truck engine. What issues could a guy experience i a build like this?

I have a D9 block that I bored to 4.5 with out sonic checking it, only half filled run 42 passes before it cracked a cly wall. Messed around and didn't get it tore down and cleaned up quick enough ended up having to sleeve all 8, but even going another .120 they said the only place they started to break through was where it cracked. As much money as I've spent on this block I would have been way ahead to buy a aftermarket block the first round.

HotRodLincoln
10-01-2010, 11:40 PM
496 is the largest with a production block from what I have been told and seen on a BBC (unless the block is sleeved). The 502 and larger are blocks that have siamesed bores to be able to accept the bigger bore so anything over 496 with a factory block and you are larger than what they can do. All 496 and larger GM combos are tall decks when using GM blocks I believe Merlin makes some short deck big bore blocks though.

An aftermarktet 496 is done using a passenger (short deck) block. Bore to 4.31 and 4.25 crank. Lingenfelter did that many years ago and had a very nice pump gas combo worked out using factory iron heads and LS6 rods. The GM factory installed 496 used a taller deck - 10.2 i believe.
The 502 factory engines are short deck. Using the 502 block and the a 4.25 crank easily yields 540" (4.5 x 4.25). There is not a Ford factory equivalent to the GM 502 siamese block, but this
http://www.eliminatorproducts.com/product/18.aspx
looks pretty good. I'll hazard a guess that you'd have no trouble boring that further than a junkyard block. There's an Eliminator dealer on the board who could tell you exactly.

TorinoStyle2
10-02-2010, 12:51 AM
515 cubic inch BBC from a stock low deck factory block is the most I've seen. My boss built it for his power boat.

StephenW
10-02-2010, 05:38 AM
The only company that I have heard of making the long arms is Bryant but just what I have heard of.

Scat will do a 4.75 billet. I just ordered one.

MrScharfenberger
10-02-2010, 11:48 AM
Scat will do a 4.75 billet. I just ordered one.

How much did that thing run? $1800 to $2000 I'm guessin?

CarsByCarl
10-02-2010, 12:21 PM
You could also have all 8 holes sleeved for even larger bores. At approx $100/cyl it's more cost effective than a custom crank.

4.5 stroke x 4.625 bore = 605 CID
4.75 stroke x 4.625 bore = 638 CID

4.625 is a readily available overbore, so the getting the rings in that size is no problem.

Edit: I've never attempted or even heard of anyone taking a stock block out to 4.625 bore with sleeves. It's only going to leave .235" between the bores, which doesn't leave much room for the sleeves themselves.

StephenW
10-02-2010, 03:31 PM
How much did that thing run? $1800 to $2000 I'm guessin?

Ah, no. More like $3500. Prices go up significantly for custom stuff.

cool40
10-03-2010, 12:47 AM
Ah, no. More like $3500. Prices go up significantly for custom stuff.
and you did say billet.......$$:D

ccso640
10-03-2010, 01:04 AM
$3,500 seems high for a Scat billet, I paid $3,350 for a Velasco custom billet, 4.5 stroke. Either way, they are expensive. Chris

Gene K
10-03-2010, 01:42 AM
In the real world I think the largest "stock block" Ive seen was a 604 (4.500 Bore x 4.750 Stroke) but that was back in the days before aftermarket blocks were a dime a dozen.

White Lightning
10-03-2010, 02:33 AM
lol....."dime" a dozen...sigh.....Don't we wish?.
Rob

crittersf1
10-03-2010, 07:52 AM
lol....."dime" a dozen...sigh.....Don't we wish?.
Rob

So true.

MrScharfenberger
10-03-2010, 11:14 AM
and you did say billet.......$$:D

OUCH!! That's expensive for a crank. But I bet it is sweet!! I could spend the money but this is just a hobby for me. I guess I'll build a nice 557 as a spare motor. I'd really like to get more than 600 cubes just because it sounds so cool. But that would be the only reason that I would do it. Just because it would be cool. I don't think I can justify the cost just because of the cool factor.

CarsByCarl
10-03-2010, 11:29 AM
I'd really like to get more than 600 cubes just because it sounds so cool. But that would be the only reason that I would do it. Just because it would be cool.

I don't know that there's any better reason.

In fact, I'm going to look into doing a 4.625 x 4.5 (605) combo for my own car....just because it's cool. ;)

White Lightning
10-03-2010, 12:31 PM
I don't know that there's any better reason.

In fact, I'm going to look into doing a 4.625 x 4.5 (605) combo for my own car....just because it's cool. ;)

Now........with a blower .....and a Buzzard catcher.......hee hee hee :) :) :).
Rob

MrScharfenberger
10-03-2010, 01:02 PM
I don't know that there's any better reason.

In fact, I'm going to look into doing a 4.625 x 4.5 (605) combo for my own car....just because it's cool. ;)



You're right. There really is no better reason. But... And I probably shouldn't say this on this forum however here it goes. I have a 2003 Corvette with only 17,000 miles on the clock just begging for an ATI intercooled supercharger. That car is completely stock right down to the air cleaner. It just isn't in my nature to leave it that way for long. It is begging for more power.

Can you pick out the slow car in the picture from the link below? Here is a hint. It's not the red one!!

http://www.mrscharfenberger.com/F100/pictures/truckupdate/24.jpg

bigblok86ranger
10-03-2010, 03:43 PM
My opinion is sell the Vette and finance your Mustang and truck builds. Corvettes are for old men! Atleast that is the case around my region!

MrScharfenberger
10-03-2010, 04:23 PM
I've thought about that. However the Vette is my daily driver. I had a Saturn SL1 and I got hit by an uninsured motorist and it was totaled. I ended up with the Vette as a daily driver after that. I just got it in April. I paid 30% of original MSRP and it only had 15,900 miles on it. I owe some rich guy a Christmas card for that.

I've got other cash for the other builds. I just don't want to plunk down $3500 for a crank. I would however plunk down $3500 for a set of P-51 heads and a set of Jessel rocker arms!! And the way I look at it (and I am getting old) if one toy is good.... 5 is better!! :D

bigblok86ranger
10-03-2010, 05:16 PM
LOL! Had to razz you a little. My next build will be 547 4.5 bore/4.3 stroke A460block deal.

MrScharfenberger
10-03-2010, 07:50 PM
That's OK. I resemble that remark. But the a/c is stil ice cold in the Vette in July!

And the best part is if you don't get on it (very easy to do because it is so slow anyway) it gets over 30 mpg on the highway. And yes. It really does. No kidding! I've clocked a best of 32.6 mpg.

How much is a A460 block? They are around $2600 aren't they?

bigblok86ranger
10-03-2010, 11:16 PM
I thought they were closer to 2300 but I would check with BF Evans for a definite price.

Gene K
10-03-2010, 11:24 PM
I don't know that there's any better reason.

In fact, I'm going to look into doing a 4.625 x 4.5 (605) combo for my own car....just because it's cool. ;)

Not that it matters, but I thought that was a 588?

Lem Evans
10-05-2010, 02:06 PM
4.560 x 4.5 = 588