chilly
01-24-2006, 04:36 PM
THESE ARE SOME 4 BOLT BLOCK CONVERSIONS POSTED BY FORUM MEMBERS.
First one is all 5 cap conversion done by David Willingham for me with blue thunder caps.
http://images.andale.com/f2/115/106/3596468/1096838664798_My_4_bolt_conversion.jpg
----------------------------
Next is Byron Reynolds center three caps conversion with blue thunder caps.
http://images.andale.com/f2/115/106/3596468/1097620400218_Byrons_4_bolt_block.jpg
----------------------------
Next is Danny's posted conversion of the program caps on the center three.
http://images.andale.com/f2/115/106/3596468/1099990966149_an_the_ford_mans_4_bolt_program_caps .jpg
----------------------------
Now here is some pics of a DOVE block with thick main webbing & a picture of the different cam tunnel configuration like boss blocks but not drilled.
http://images.andale.com/f2/115/106/3596468/1097586649747_DOVE_A_MAIN_WEBS.jpg
http://images.andale.com/f2/115/106/3596468/1100807173604_DOVE_A_FRONT.jpg
Paul Kane (Login PaulKane)
Response to What's The Difference In 460 Blocks?
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The available production cast iron block casting numbers are C8VE-A, C9VE-A, D0VE-A, D1VE-("xxx") and D9TE-AB.
I like to refer to all but the D9TE as the "early-style" blocks. The D9TE casting arrived in the 1979 model year and was utilized until the end of 460 production ( to 1996).
For the most part, all blocks and rotating asemblies are interchangable between all blocks except the D9TE. A D9TE rotating assembly will fit into an early-style block, but the opposite is not true.
All 429/460 Fords are internally balanced engines except for the D9TE 460, which is externally balanced.
These block identifying marks (D1VE, etc.) are not actual casting numbers but are engineering revisions that are cast into the block castings themselves. And they are what we enthusiasts refer to when identifying our factory iron, as they give not so much the year that the block was made but rather the revision of the block as specified by said engineering revision. (Actual date code is in the lifter valley.)
Early-Style Blocks: For the most part (and with small exception), the C8VE, C9VE and D1VE blocks are all essentially the same configuration casting with the thinner main webs. The thicker main web block is the D0VE block, which may or may not have 4-bolt main caps on 2,3 & 4. (Very few D1VE blocks may be thick webbed.) All Ford production 385 blocks can be decked as needed, so this is a non-issue detail.
D9TE Blocks: The externally balanced rotating assembly utilizes a crankshaft that has slightly smaller counterweights. This was done to so that the cylinders of the D9TE block could be extended about .1875" deeper towards the crankcase. I believe the cylinders were lengthened in the D9TE block because this block was revised to double as a big equipment truck block, and the dump truck rotating assemblies consisted of a very deep skirt piston that benefitted from the extended cylinder walls for support.
The deeper cylinders of the D9TE blocks are the reason that the early-style, internally balanced rotating assemblies will not fit (internal balance crank throws will not clear D9TE cylinders).
Since most prefer to use internally balanced rotating asembies in the performance applicaton, we usually opt for any block except the D9TE. There are also advantages to specific blocks within the group of early-style blocks, such as the D0VE-A's thick main webs...
Further, the D9TE block was presumed to be a lightweight ("late model") casting and therefore not very strong and also limited in it's overbore capability. But this belief is currently being re-evaluated for a couple of reasons:
No-one had yet evaluated D9TE cylinder wall thickness with a sonic checker, and preliminary testing suggests the block may not be so bad afterall.
Strokers have become popular and the D9TE's deeper cylinders offer more support for the increased-stroke rotating assemlies.
Most all aftermarket stroker kits use a crank with the dimensions of the externally balanced crank and so they fit the D9TE block as well as the early blocks.
Paul
http://www.eliminatorproducts.com/
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D1VE w/ 2 bolt caps, 4.360" bore, unfilled = 217 lbs.
A460 block, 4.625" bore, roller cam brgs, unfilled with caps = 255 lbs
A460 block, 4.634" bore, roller cam brgs, filled to deck with caps = 268 lbs
A460 block, 4.473" bore, roller cam brgs = 265 lbs
A460 block, factory rough undersize bore = 302 lbs
4-bolt D0VE A block = 221 lbs
2-bolt D0VE 4.440 bore = 204 lbs
This message has been edited by ProF100 from IP address 66.0.32.33 on Dec 7, 2004 8:18 AM
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Damon Sea
(Login Phantasea427)
198.93.117.2 Screw In Block (Freeze) Plugs November 19 2004, 5:12 AM
Heres some information about Screw in Block Plugs or Freeze Plugs. (Pipe Plugs)
385 Series engines use 1 1/4 - 11 1/2 Pipe Plug. You can pick these up at any hardware stores. For example go to Motion Industries web site
https://www.motionmro.com/motion3/jsp/mi/index.jsp
and search for part number 5406-HP-20 by manufacturer Brennan Industries.
Ford FE Series Engines use 1 1/2 - 11 1/2 Pipe Plug. Breenan Industries part number 5406-HP-24
One will need to get the appropriate quality tap for the block and take it SLOW. I suggest mounting the block upside down on a level surface and go SLOW!! using lots of lube. A good tip is to measure the distance from the block to the cylinder wall and then mark or place some tape on the tap so you don't interfere with the cylinder walls. Don't go too deep or your plug will be recessed into the block. AND TAKE IT SLOW!!
BTW I don't have any affiliation with Motion Industries or Brennan Industries. I get my fittings from Motion Industries which is just down the street from where I work. This is just a FYI for a common question.
Damon Sea
1983 Mustang Hatchback
466 on the engine stand ready to drop in
"If it doesn't fit, Force it. If it breaks then it needed to be replaced anyway"
http://www.geocities.com/wildfire1mustang/damon.htm
http://www.clubhotrod.com/photopost/showgallery.php?ppuser=750&cat=500&thumb=1
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S. Leonard
(Login 1961GALAXIE)
65.54.98.29 IDT BLOCK INFO POSTED BY JAY January 15 2005, 2:46 PM
Difference in block castings/machining
Response to Premier vs. Ultra vs. Sportsman
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Premier vs Ultra
The Premier and the Ultra use the same block casting and machining. If the main bearing caps were removed from both the Premier and Ultra blocks then would look the same. The main caps on the Premier blocks are of 8620 billet steel. Also, the Premier uses chrome moly studs and bolts. The Ultra uses cast Nodular caps with a standard grade 8 fastener. The cam bearing bores on both the Ultra and Premier are machined to accept a roller cam bearing (2.500" diameter). The as supplied bore diameter is slightly uder 4.500".
Premier vs Sportsman HP
The block castings are different. The lifter valley is the most noticable change. The Sportsman HP has a production looking lifter valley. The Premier has a "beefer" lifter valley that includes the possibility of moving lifters locations. Also, the Premier has a siamesed water jacket which allows for a maximum bore of 4.700". The Sportsman HP block has a water thru water jacket that allow water to pass between the bores. The maximum bore capability is 4.500". The difference between the water jackets and the lifter valley is the primary difference in weight between the two blocks. Also, the main bearing caps and fasteners that are used in the Ultra block are used in the Sportsman HP. The cam bearing bores on the Sportsman HP is machined to accept the standard Ford cam bearing (2.250"). The as supplied bore diameter is slightly under 4.360".
I will try to get some pictures posted to help in the understanding of the differences.
Jay
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Phil63
(Login philsfln)
64.12.116.132 545 engine weight April 13 2005, 6:37 PM
I just weighed my 545 today. Set up as follows it weighed 573lbs. 545 with canton main girdle,new style scj aluminum heads,edelbrock alu water pump,victor intake with dominator carb,older starter,gm 1 wire 55amp alternator,stock ford elec dist,stock type valve covers,stock flex plate. I have a rather small homemade alt bracket that doesn't weigh much. Hope this info will help some of the folks.
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Danny Cabral
(Login dcf150)
67.163.170.250 Machined Surface Finish May 15 2005, 7:06 AM
Don't get RA (roughness average) confused with RMS (root mean square). The factory Ford engine shop manual (460 engine) specifies a head gasket surface finish of RMS 90-150 on the block and RMS 60-110 on the cylinder head. (RMS values are outdated measures.)
RA is the modern method of surface analyzation and has been designated by the International Standards Organizations (ISO) as the correct practice for measuring the roughness of a machined surface. RA is roughly 90% of RMS. Multiplying RA value times 1.11 will give you an approximate RMS value. A great link explaining all of this much better than I can:
http://www.bandgmachine.com/technical/feb95.htm
Some aluminum block info from Alan Root...
http://www.network54.com/Forum/thread?forumid=85220&messageid=1122351258
First one is all 5 cap conversion done by David Willingham for me with blue thunder caps.
http://images.andale.com/f2/115/106/3596468/1096838664798_My_4_bolt_conversion.jpg
----------------------------
Next is Byron Reynolds center three caps conversion with blue thunder caps.
http://images.andale.com/f2/115/106/3596468/1097620400218_Byrons_4_bolt_block.jpg
----------------------------
Next is Danny's posted conversion of the program caps on the center three.
http://images.andale.com/f2/115/106/3596468/1099990966149_an_the_ford_mans_4_bolt_program_caps .jpg
----------------------------
Now here is some pics of a DOVE block with thick main webbing & a picture of the different cam tunnel configuration like boss blocks but not drilled.
http://images.andale.com/f2/115/106/3596468/1097586649747_DOVE_A_MAIN_WEBS.jpg
http://images.andale.com/f2/115/106/3596468/1100807173604_DOVE_A_FRONT.jpg
Paul Kane (Login PaulKane)
Response to What's The Difference In 460 Blocks?
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The available production cast iron block casting numbers are C8VE-A, C9VE-A, D0VE-A, D1VE-("xxx") and D9TE-AB.
I like to refer to all but the D9TE as the "early-style" blocks. The D9TE casting arrived in the 1979 model year and was utilized until the end of 460 production ( to 1996).
For the most part, all blocks and rotating asemblies are interchangable between all blocks except the D9TE. A D9TE rotating assembly will fit into an early-style block, but the opposite is not true.
All 429/460 Fords are internally balanced engines except for the D9TE 460, which is externally balanced.
These block identifying marks (D1VE, etc.) are not actual casting numbers but are engineering revisions that are cast into the block castings themselves. And they are what we enthusiasts refer to when identifying our factory iron, as they give not so much the year that the block was made but rather the revision of the block as specified by said engineering revision. (Actual date code is in the lifter valley.)
Early-Style Blocks: For the most part (and with small exception), the C8VE, C9VE and D1VE blocks are all essentially the same configuration casting with the thinner main webs. The thicker main web block is the D0VE block, which may or may not have 4-bolt main caps on 2,3 & 4. (Very few D1VE blocks may be thick webbed.) All Ford production 385 blocks can be decked as needed, so this is a non-issue detail.
D9TE Blocks: The externally balanced rotating assembly utilizes a crankshaft that has slightly smaller counterweights. This was done to so that the cylinders of the D9TE block could be extended about .1875" deeper towards the crankcase. I believe the cylinders were lengthened in the D9TE block because this block was revised to double as a big equipment truck block, and the dump truck rotating assemblies consisted of a very deep skirt piston that benefitted from the extended cylinder walls for support.
The deeper cylinders of the D9TE blocks are the reason that the early-style, internally balanced rotating assemblies will not fit (internal balance crank throws will not clear D9TE cylinders).
Since most prefer to use internally balanced rotating asembies in the performance applicaton, we usually opt for any block except the D9TE. There are also advantages to specific blocks within the group of early-style blocks, such as the D0VE-A's thick main webs...
Further, the D9TE block was presumed to be a lightweight ("late model") casting and therefore not very strong and also limited in it's overbore capability. But this belief is currently being re-evaluated for a couple of reasons:
No-one had yet evaluated D9TE cylinder wall thickness with a sonic checker, and preliminary testing suggests the block may not be so bad afterall.
Strokers have become popular and the D9TE's deeper cylinders offer more support for the increased-stroke rotating assemlies.
Most all aftermarket stroker kits use a crank with the dimensions of the externally balanced crank and so they fit the D9TE block as well as the early blocks.
Paul
http://www.eliminatorproducts.com/
Edit Message Delete Message Lock Thread Respond to this message
D1VE w/ 2 bolt caps, 4.360" bore, unfilled = 217 lbs.
A460 block, 4.625" bore, roller cam brgs, unfilled with caps = 255 lbs
A460 block, 4.634" bore, roller cam brgs, filled to deck with caps = 268 lbs
A460 block, 4.473" bore, roller cam brgs = 265 lbs
A460 block, factory rough undersize bore = 302 lbs
4-bolt D0VE A block = 221 lbs
2-bolt D0VE 4.440 bore = 204 lbs
This message has been edited by ProF100 from IP address 66.0.32.33 on Dec 7, 2004 8:18 AM
Edit Message Delete Message Lock Thread Respond to this message
Damon Sea
(Login Phantasea427)
198.93.117.2 Screw In Block (Freeze) Plugs November 19 2004, 5:12 AM
Heres some information about Screw in Block Plugs or Freeze Plugs. (Pipe Plugs)
385 Series engines use 1 1/4 - 11 1/2 Pipe Plug. You can pick these up at any hardware stores. For example go to Motion Industries web site
https://www.motionmro.com/motion3/jsp/mi/index.jsp
and search for part number 5406-HP-20 by manufacturer Brennan Industries.
Ford FE Series Engines use 1 1/2 - 11 1/2 Pipe Plug. Breenan Industries part number 5406-HP-24
One will need to get the appropriate quality tap for the block and take it SLOW. I suggest mounting the block upside down on a level surface and go SLOW!! using lots of lube. A good tip is to measure the distance from the block to the cylinder wall and then mark or place some tape on the tap so you don't interfere with the cylinder walls. Don't go too deep or your plug will be recessed into the block. AND TAKE IT SLOW!!
BTW I don't have any affiliation with Motion Industries or Brennan Industries. I get my fittings from Motion Industries which is just down the street from where I work. This is just a FYI for a common question.
Damon Sea
1983 Mustang Hatchback
466 on the engine stand ready to drop in
"If it doesn't fit, Force it. If it breaks then it needed to be replaced anyway"
http://www.geocities.com/wildfire1mustang/damon.htm
http://www.clubhotrod.com/photopost/showgallery.php?ppuser=750&cat=500&thumb=1
Edit Message Delete Message Lock Thread Respond to this message
S. Leonard
(Login 1961GALAXIE)
65.54.98.29 IDT BLOCK INFO POSTED BY JAY January 15 2005, 2:46 PM
Difference in block castings/machining
Response to Premier vs. Ultra vs. Sportsman
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Premier vs Ultra
The Premier and the Ultra use the same block casting and machining. If the main bearing caps were removed from both the Premier and Ultra blocks then would look the same. The main caps on the Premier blocks are of 8620 billet steel. Also, the Premier uses chrome moly studs and bolts. The Ultra uses cast Nodular caps with a standard grade 8 fastener. The cam bearing bores on both the Ultra and Premier are machined to accept a roller cam bearing (2.500" diameter). The as supplied bore diameter is slightly uder 4.500".
Premier vs Sportsman HP
The block castings are different. The lifter valley is the most noticable change. The Sportsman HP has a production looking lifter valley. The Premier has a "beefer" lifter valley that includes the possibility of moving lifters locations. Also, the Premier has a siamesed water jacket which allows for a maximum bore of 4.700". The Sportsman HP block has a water thru water jacket that allow water to pass between the bores. The maximum bore capability is 4.500". The difference between the water jackets and the lifter valley is the primary difference in weight between the two blocks. Also, the main bearing caps and fasteners that are used in the Ultra block are used in the Sportsman HP. The cam bearing bores on the Sportsman HP is machined to accept the standard Ford cam bearing (2.250"). The as supplied bore diameter is slightly under 4.360".
I will try to get some pictures posted to help in the understanding of the differences.
Jay
Edit Message Delete Message Lock Thread Respond to this message
Phil63
(Login philsfln)
64.12.116.132 545 engine weight April 13 2005, 6:37 PM
I just weighed my 545 today. Set up as follows it weighed 573lbs. 545 with canton main girdle,new style scj aluminum heads,edelbrock alu water pump,victor intake with dominator carb,older starter,gm 1 wire 55amp alternator,stock ford elec dist,stock type valve covers,stock flex plate. I have a rather small homemade alt bracket that doesn't weigh much. Hope this info will help some of the folks.
Edit Message Delete Message Lock Thread Respond to this message
Danny Cabral
(Login dcf150)
67.163.170.250 Machined Surface Finish May 15 2005, 7:06 AM
Don't get RA (roughness average) confused with RMS (root mean square). The factory Ford engine shop manual (460 engine) specifies a head gasket surface finish of RMS 90-150 on the block and RMS 60-110 on the cylinder head. (RMS values are outdated measures.)
RA is the modern method of surface analyzation and has been designated by the International Standards Organizations (ISO) as the correct practice for measuring the roughness of a machined surface. RA is roughly 90% of RMS. Multiplying RA value times 1.11 will give you an approximate RMS value. A great link explaining all of this much better than I can:
http://www.bandgmachine.com/technical/feb95.htm
Some aluminum block info from Alan Root...
http://www.network54.com/Forum/thread?forumid=85220&messageid=1122351258