chilly
01-24-2006, 03:38 PM
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Boss 429 vs SCJ Wedge - Shootout results!
October 23 2004 at 10:50 AM
No score for this post esimone (Login esimone)
from IP address 66.208.218.116
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
For all that may be interested, I've just completed a (personal project) pump gas shootout between a 533 c.i. Boss 429 and a 533 c.i. Kaase SCJ Wedge head equipped engine.
The "shootout" has taken about 2 years to complete, and a lifetime of parts scrounging, but I just dyno'd the last of the 2 engines just this week and I'm compiling data to present to this forum.
Pics & data sheets are to follow in future posts as time permits.
(Let the bomb throwing begin!!) LOL!
Here's the set-up....
Both engines were built to be "equal", or as equal as possible to try & sort out the heads. I was suprised at exactly how equal I was able to get them when I assembled them. Anyway, here's the run down:
1. 4.440" bore x 4.300 stroke with Scat H-beam rods & cranks
2. 1/16 x 1/16 x 3/16 ring packs with Custom Diamond forged pistons
3. Static ratios on both engines = 10.4 to 1
4. Both engines has mech. roller cams with .690" at the valve, and 268 - 270 deg. duration @ .050"
(Different cams due to different rocker ratios, 1.8 for the wedge, 1.75 for the Boss, so I had cams ground to make things "equal".
5. Both engines used a tunnel ram intake (Pro-Street) with dual 650 DP's for the street.
6. Wet sump oil systems with melling pumps, nothing fancy here.
7. Sprint car style "dyno headers" that were welded up from the same heddman kit.
8. The heads on both engines were ported to the best of my ability (which ain't much) and what is noteworthy is that I made the Boss heads full hemi, and then were Hi-Ported. (bottoms of the runners filled in)
More specifics on the heads in future posts.
........and here's the results
Wedge HP 674 @ 5400 TQ 700 ft./lb. @ 4700 rpm
Boss9 HP 690 @ 5700 TQ 655 ft./lb. @ 4800 rpm
Both engines "ran out of air" @ 5700 rpm due to the small carbs, and testing past 5700 rpm was senseless. The Boss engine seemed to be able to "hang on" longer, but made less peak torque.
Remember, both these engines are a Pro street application after we're done here, so that's why I initially chose the small carbs.
Being unhappy that they turned out to be too small, I managed to pull a few favors, and swap tunnel ram tops on the Boss 9 in the dyno cell and I used (2) #9375 Holley Dominators to see how the engine would react now having more than enough carb(s).
The results were too cool......
Boss9 w/Dominators HP = 750 @ 6200 rpm and 675 ft./lbs. TQ @ 5000 rpm
What was really weird is that the Boss didn't really make a ton of peak TQ like the Wedge, but man did it hang on upstairs in the HP depatrment.
......and all on 93 octane Amoco Ultimate gas.
The sad part of this whole project is that I found leaky head castings on the Boss (both heads), so I had to cut my testing short - I didn't even get to make a full run or do timing sweeps or jetting runs to really tweak the Boss, like I did on the wedge.
I'll try to post pics & data sheets soon, but our 2005 product catalog has me very busy. (we're on a deadline!)
Thanks!!!
Eric @ Diamond
P.S. I have short video clips of these engines running in dyno I shot on my little Kodak digital camera. I will try to get the video's posted on the Diamond website soon so you guys can see for yourself!!!!!
This message has been edited by esimone from IP address 66.208.218.116 on Oct 23, 2004 10:56 AM
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Author Reply
Propane Steve
(Login 71f150)
220.253.76.212 Awesome Info - great results
No score for this post October 23 2004, 11:13 AM
As well as being a fantastic project, those numbers are awesome! Did you ever get flow figures on those heads for a comparison?
Cant wait for the dyno sheets and the video. Bring it on!
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Jean-Guy
(Login Ti-Beu)
66.130.107.79 Propane Steve
No score for this post October 24 2004, 1:33 AM
Your name is Propane Steve, is it because you have experience with propane engines. Thanks. Jean-Guy.
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Propane Steve
(Login 71f150)
203.33.166.189 No expert, but have quite a bit of experience
No score for this post October 24 2004, 2:13 AM
Predominantly I use a handle of Propane Steve as there are quite a few Steves on this board and I think I'm about the only one that plays with propane. If I kept posting just as Steve it becomes difficult to identify my posts from others.
Otherwise, yes, I've done loads of research and have developed some interesting things for my self. Over the last 10 years or so I've built a couple of 200-250cu inline sixes and a couple of V8s (351 clevo, 302W and 460) to run propane. Cant get enough of the stuff. I've had some pretty cool stuff ups too.
I currently have a 460 in an F-Truck on which I use all Aussie built gear (given that I live in Australia), twin Gas Research throttle bodies, dual converters, dual lines etc. If you would like to know anything about propane (or LPG) feel free to ask.
Cheers,
Steve
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Ti-Beu (Jean-Guy.)
(Login Ti-Beu)
66.130.107.79 Propane engines
No score for this post October 25 2004, 12:18 AM
Steve, we live far apart (CANADA) but we can exchange our propane experiences, my email address: jeanguy40@hotmail.com
Later and Thanks. Jean-Guy. (Ti-Beu)
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Propane Steve
(Login 71f150)
203.33.161.36 You got mail! n/m
No score for this post October 25 2004, 2:01 AM
n/m
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MightyMach
(Login MightyMach)
67.164.230.221 Makes me wonder how the hell my motor "should make 700 HP"
No score for this post October 23 2004, 4:18 PM
520"
SCJ heads
Solid Flat tappet 260* 270* @ .05" With .636" lift
Tunnel Ram (2) 750's
big tube headers
=(
Great project though--at a very low RPM!!
Jeff Given
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chilly460
(Premier Login chilly460)
Forum Owner
199.244.214.30 Re: Makes me wonder how the hell my motor "should make 700 HP"
No score for this post October 26 2004, 9:47 AM
First off, thanks for the excellent post, Eric!!! That is very cool info.
And for MightyMach, look at the jump once the carbs were switched...with those pink Holley 750s that you have, your motor should be breathing fine.
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JB
(Login JBR-2)
4.242.165.249 Thanks much, invaluable info here, begs for more discussion...n/m
No score for this post October 23 2004, 4:55 PM
n/m
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DaveMcLain
(Login DaveMcLain)
64.251.142.111 EXCELLENT Info!!
No score for this post October 23 2004, 5:29 PM
Thank you for the great shootout info! That project was really a bunch of work and I think much can be learned from your results. The engines really did what was expected, wedge better torque numbers, hemi better horsepower less torque. I wonder how it would have worked out if the engines would have been larger in displacement, say 600cid. I bet the gap in the horsepower would have been wider and the peak torque numbers would have been more similar.
Again, great stuff, thanks for sharing your info...
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Paul Kane
(Login PaulKane)
209.86.0.72 Great Little Shootout...
No score for this post October 23 2004, 7:25 PM
...between cylinder heads.
Dave Mclain is right; the outcome was relatively predictable.
Now, think how those numbers (and the wining engine) might be different if they were topped off with a blower...
Paul
It's all about thrust...
This message has been edited by PaulKane from IP address 209.86.0.72 on Oct 23, 2004 7:26 PM
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jeff hann
(Login cletus66)
205.188.116.133 Hey, Eric@Diamond, sounds like lots of work.............
No score for this post October 23 2004, 10:56 PM
to get some solid numbers. Thanks for the effort and thank you for sharing the results. I used to sell auto parts and worked with people who couldn't change their own oil. It's good to see someone in the industry who plays with what they sell. Did that sound funny?? I didn't mean it that way. You know what I mean. Thanks again.
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JB
(Login JBR-2)
4.242.90.108 1st question: Why did the Boss quit at 5700?.....
No score for this post October 24 2004, 12:00 AM
It seems to me that it has plenty of breathing potential left,
with the cam and carbs/manifold.
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Dallas W
(Login 460stang)
24.244.74.75 It didn't.. when the dominators were installed. n/m
No score for this post October 24 2004, 2:31 AM
n/m
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JB
(Login JBR-2)
4.242.120.140 I meant without the Dominators......
No score for this post October 24 2004, 2:17 PM
Normally you don't need two Dominators to get power
all the way up to 6200, with 530 inches.
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esimone
(Login esimone)
66.208.218.116 ......the power "planed out".....the engine essentially
No score for this post October 25 2004, 8:44 AM
ran out of air.
I knew by looking at the data sheets that it was acting just like a NASCAR restrictor plate engine.
The power "leveled off", and as the engine revved toward 6500 rpm, the HP didn't increase. The valvetrain didn't float - very clean runs - and teardown confirms that there were no signs of float. My spring pressures were right where I set them upon assembly. (used springs, they had already taken a heat set on another engine.)
The wedge quit at 5500 rpm, and it only made 670 - 675 from 5500 to 6600. HP was a flat line.
I bet the wedge would really like a set of dominators....but I don't have a T-Ram top for the wedge that will accomodate a pair of 4500's
Guess I'll have to make one..........!!!
Thanks so much!!!
Eric
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Charlie Evans
(Login c.evans)
64.12.116.130 Eric - What Brand of Tunnel Ram Was On the Wedge ?
No score for this post October 25 2004, 10:56 AM
Was it a Weiand or Offy? If it was a Weiand a tunnel ram top for the Dominators is available. It's old Weiand part number 1922 for the cloverleaf style top and part number 1924 for the open style top. Either one will work and mount the Dominators.
Charlie
This message has been edited by c.evans from IP address 64.12.116.130 on Oct 25, 2004 10:59 AM
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esimone
(Login esimone)
66.208.218.116 an old offy.........
No score for this post October 26 2004, 9:25 AM
.......carbs came with too....I had those re-cal'd by Dale Cubic. Awsome carbs!
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Paul Kane
(Login PaulKane)
165.247.209.143 Offy T/R: Oldie But Goodie.
No score for this post October 26 2004, 2:02 PM
Me & Charlie did some back-to-back testing of the Weiand and Offy tunnel rams. A couple of the observations we made included that the Weiand might be suited for rpm ranges higher than the Offy, but the Offy showed much more consistent/equal flow rates runner-to-runner.
For a 533 at your two engine's operating rpm's, I'd think either tunnel ram would work well. This is assuming that the Weiand has been opened up to SCJ port size like the Offy.
It's no doubt those engines were short on carb(s) and that this was the limiting factor in peak operating range and power...
Paul
It's all about thrust...
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RJP
(Login RJP)
152.163.100.130 Work on the tunnel rams?
No score for this post October 30 2004, 1:09 PM
What was done to the tunnelrams before the tests? Was there any plenum work, port match, ect?
60 Starliner 460, 61 Starliner 427, 66 Galaxie 428, 67 Fairlane 427, 66 Fairlane 390, 69 F-250 390, 72 Lincoln 460 and 3 Ford powered Hotboats
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chilly460
(Premier Login chilly460)
Forum Owner
199.244.214.30 Bumpage...
No score for this post October 29 2004, 2:25 PM
ttt
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esimone
(Login esimone)
68.41.215.26 FINALLY!!! New Boss test results today!!!
No score for this post June 11 2005, 7:33 PM
Just got back from dyno with the Boss after FINALLY FIXING all the water leaks in the cylinder heads. What a big suprise it was with the engine sealed up & healthy this time!!!!!
I know it's been a long time since the first test session, but we're really busy at Holbrook's this time of year, and this is the first chance I've had to go back to dyno & finish my testing.
The new test results WITH DOMINATORS was 804 peak HP & 710 ft. lbs. of TQ!!!
Making my pulls between 4000 & 7000 RPM, AVERAGE HP was 756 @ 5900 rpm, and avg TQ was 680 @ 5800!!!! This thing between 6000 & 7000 rpm never made less than 750 HP, and the TQ down low was awsome, never making less than 615 ft. lbs. between 4000 & 6000!!!
Remember, this is a 94 octane pump gas piece that will be street driven - hopefully on all four wheels - LOL!!
Just thought you's guy's might want to know.
ERIC
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TorinoStyle2
(Login TorinoStyle)
24.205.113.169 Awesome!!!
Score 2.0 (1 person) June 11 2005, 8:00 PM
That is sweet!! Have you had the chance to test the wedge engine with Dominators yet??
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esimone
(Login esimone)
68.41.215.26 Not yet...
No score for this post June 12 2005, 1:25 AM
but I hope to do so in the future very soon - as time permits.
Thanks!!!!
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Tom
(Login 747JetMech)
67.164.127.15 What were they thinking?
No score for this post June 12 2005, 2:05 AM
Lets go back in time when those engine were made. Look at the rules in place for CID etc.
In my opinion, those heads were developed for a 500+ motor. I wonder why they made a head for a small cubic inch motor when, in reality, functions at its peak on something outside of the rules at the time?
Thank you for sharing your information with all of us. I know your pain in collecting the Boss parts for the comparision dyno. I have been collecting Boss parts for several years and still don't have a complete motor.
Tom
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Bill
(Login Yoeman)
65.186.171.191 They were thinking
No score for this post June 12 2005, 1:33 PM
Talladega, Daytona, 200+ MPH.
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Tom
(Login 747JetMech)
67.164.127.15 I am not knocking their accomplishments
No score for this post June 15 2005, 12:41 PM
I was bringing up the fact that the head is really made for a much larger cubic inch engine. Was there something in mind down the road?
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Brad
(Login Coupe_Devil)
216.249.160.89 Down the road
No score for this post June 15 2005, 6:56 PM
If there is something in mind down the road you can bet I'll be standing waiting for it. Those are great numbers, and its great that someone would take the time to do the tests that you've done and sahre teh information with us.
Thanks
Brad
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Njall
(Login Njall)
194.144.95.153 Big Boss
No score for this post June 16 2005, 11:56 AM
Well, Ford had plans for the 385 that never made it as far as they intended, until perhaps now. Ericīs testing is a hint at what was possible to do, even with 429 CID in late 1969.
The aluminum Can-Am blocks displaced 505 CID and that is approximately what was being discussed in Fordsīback rooms in late 1968 to early 1969 from what I can surmise. Perhaps Gary Blair or someone else with the inside scoop can tell us more correctly than I can what was going on.
I have read that, for example, the then-planned 1974-75 Mach 1 Mustang was to be available with a 505 wedge type 385.
But in mid-1970 it was becoming ever more clear that the muscle car era was about to run its course. Much evidence now points to that outcome regardless of all and any insurance premiums and federal intervention into the behavior in the market. I still want a Boss 429 ....
Does it sound very different from a wedge? Does anyone here know, first hand? Eric?
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Rob
(Login 67stang1)
162.74.52.185 Sound differences
No score for this post June 16 2005, 2:00 PM
I've run both types in a blown alcohol configuration. The first was a 557 with A460 wedge heads with an 8-71 up too 30% over and headers with 2 1/8" primaries and 4" collectors, the second and current is a 526 with AR Boss 429 heads and a 12-71 30% over and headers with 2 1/2" primaries and 5" collectors. The Boss is a little louder and has a slightly different tone, I think it has alot more to do with the bigger blower and exhaust size than it does with the different heads.
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Earl Nagle
(Login PearsonFan)
160.81.154.138 just think
No score for this post June 16 2005, 2:15 PM
where the boss 9 could have gone if Ford hadnt bailed from racing in 1970.
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John I.
(Login 10sec460)
66.38.248.228 Re: just think
No score for this post June 16 2005, 10:16 PM
Yeah, NHRA would have had to ban it back in the 70's instead of this year.
http://www.sagebrushracing.com
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Robert
(Login bigbub1968)
201.248.5.158 What Would be the results...
Score 1.0 (1 person) November 11 2005, 1:20 AM
If you have a Victor Jr. fully ported with a single 1150 BG Dominator instead of the tunnel ram? Would it have limited horsepower as much as the two 750 holleys?
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Current Topic - Boss 429 vs SCJ Wedge - Shootout results!
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Boss 429 vs SCJ Wedge - Shootout results!
October 23 2004 at 10:50 AM
No score for this post esimone (Login esimone)
from IP address 66.208.218.116
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
For all that may be interested, I've just completed a (personal project) pump gas shootout between a 533 c.i. Boss 429 and a 533 c.i. Kaase SCJ Wedge head equipped engine.
The "shootout" has taken about 2 years to complete, and a lifetime of parts scrounging, but I just dyno'd the last of the 2 engines just this week and I'm compiling data to present to this forum.
Pics & data sheets are to follow in future posts as time permits.
(Let the bomb throwing begin!!) LOL!
Here's the set-up....
Both engines were built to be "equal", or as equal as possible to try & sort out the heads. I was suprised at exactly how equal I was able to get them when I assembled them. Anyway, here's the run down:
1. 4.440" bore x 4.300 stroke with Scat H-beam rods & cranks
2. 1/16 x 1/16 x 3/16 ring packs with Custom Diamond forged pistons
3. Static ratios on both engines = 10.4 to 1
4. Both engines has mech. roller cams with .690" at the valve, and 268 - 270 deg. duration @ .050"
(Different cams due to different rocker ratios, 1.8 for the wedge, 1.75 for the Boss, so I had cams ground to make things "equal".
5. Both engines used a tunnel ram intake (Pro-Street) with dual 650 DP's for the street.
6. Wet sump oil systems with melling pumps, nothing fancy here.
7. Sprint car style "dyno headers" that were welded up from the same heddman kit.
8. The heads on both engines were ported to the best of my ability (which ain't much) and what is noteworthy is that I made the Boss heads full hemi, and then were Hi-Ported. (bottoms of the runners filled in)
More specifics on the heads in future posts.
........and here's the results
Wedge HP 674 @ 5400 TQ 700 ft./lb. @ 4700 rpm
Boss9 HP 690 @ 5700 TQ 655 ft./lb. @ 4800 rpm
Both engines "ran out of air" @ 5700 rpm due to the small carbs, and testing past 5700 rpm was senseless. The Boss engine seemed to be able to "hang on" longer, but made less peak torque.
Remember, both these engines are a Pro street application after we're done here, so that's why I initially chose the small carbs.
Being unhappy that they turned out to be too small, I managed to pull a few favors, and swap tunnel ram tops on the Boss 9 in the dyno cell and I used (2) #9375 Holley Dominators to see how the engine would react now having more than enough carb(s).
The results were too cool......
Boss9 w/Dominators HP = 750 @ 6200 rpm and 675 ft./lbs. TQ @ 5000 rpm
What was really weird is that the Boss didn't really make a ton of peak TQ like the Wedge, but man did it hang on upstairs in the HP depatrment.
......and all on 93 octane Amoco Ultimate gas.
The sad part of this whole project is that I found leaky head castings on the Boss (both heads), so I had to cut my testing short - I didn't even get to make a full run or do timing sweeps or jetting runs to really tweak the Boss, like I did on the wedge.
I'll try to post pics & data sheets soon, but our 2005 product catalog has me very busy. (we're on a deadline!)
Thanks!!!
Eric @ Diamond
P.S. I have short video clips of these engines running in dyno I shot on my little Kodak digital camera. I will try to get the video's posted on the Diamond website soon so you guys can see for yourself!!!!!
This message has been edited by esimone from IP address 66.208.218.116 on Oct 23, 2004 10:56 AM
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Author Reply
Propane Steve
(Login 71f150)
220.253.76.212 Awesome Info - great results
No score for this post October 23 2004, 11:13 AM
As well as being a fantastic project, those numbers are awesome! Did you ever get flow figures on those heads for a comparison?
Cant wait for the dyno sheets and the video. Bring it on!
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Jean-Guy
(Login Ti-Beu)
66.130.107.79 Propane Steve
No score for this post October 24 2004, 1:33 AM
Your name is Propane Steve, is it because you have experience with propane engines. Thanks. Jean-Guy.
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Propane Steve
(Login 71f150)
203.33.166.189 No expert, but have quite a bit of experience
No score for this post October 24 2004, 2:13 AM
Predominantly I use a handle of Propane Steve as there are quite a few Steves on this board and I think I'm about the only one that plays with propane. If I kept posting just as Steve it becomes difficult to identify my posts from others.
Otherwise, yes, I've done loads of research and have developed some interesting things for my self. Over the last 10 years or so I've built a couple of 200-250cu inline sixes and a couple of V8s (351 clevo, 302W and 460) to run propane. Cant get enough of the stuff. I've had some pretty cool stuff ups too.
I currently have a 460 in an F-Truck on which I use all Aussie built gear (given that I live in Australia), twin Gas Research throttle bodies, dual converters, dual lines etc. If you would like to know anything about propane (or LPG) feel free to ask.
Cheers,
Steve
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Ti-Beu (Jean-Guy.)
(Login Ti-Beu)
66.130.107.79 Propane engines
No score for this post October 25 2004, 12:18 AM
Steve, we live far apart (CANADA) but we can exchange our propane experiences, my email address: jeanguy40@hotmail.com
Later and Thanks. Jean-Guy. (Ti-Beu)
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Propane Steve
(Login 71f150)
203.33.161.36 You got mail! n/m
No score for this post October 25 2004, 2:01 AM
n/m
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MightyMach
(Login MightyMach)
67.164.230.221 Makes me wonder how the hell my motor "should make 700 HP"
No score for this post October 23 2004, 4:18 PM
520"
SCJ heads
Solid Flat tappet 260* 270* @ .05" With .636" lift
Tunnel Ram (2) 750's
big tube headers
=(
Great project though--at a very low RPM!!
Jeff Given
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chilly460
(Premier Login chilly460)
Forum Owner
199.244.214.30 Re: Makes me wonder how the hell my motor "should make 700 HP"
No score for this post October 26 2004, 9:47 AM
First off, thanks for the excellent post, Eric!!! That is very cool info.
And for MightyMach, look at the jump once the carbs were switched...with those pink Holley 750s that you have, your motor should be breathing fine.
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JB
(Login JBR-2)
4.242.165.249 Thanks much, invaluable info here, begs for more discussion...n/m
No score for this post October 23 2004, 4:55 PM
n/m
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DaveMcLain
(Login DaveMcLain)
64.251.142.111 EXCELLENT Info!!
No score for this post October 23 2004, 5:29 PM
Thank you for the great shootout info! That project was really a bunch of work and I think much can be learned from your results. The engines really did what was expected, wedge better torque numbers, hemi better horsepower less torque. I wonder how it would have worked out if the engines would have been larger in displacement, say 600cid. I bet the gap in the horsepower would have been wider and the peak torque numbers would have been more similar.
Again, great stuff, thanks for sharing your info...
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Paul Kane
(Login PaulKane)
209.86.0.72 Great Little Shootout...
No score for this post October 23 2004, 7:25 PM
...between cylinder heads.
Dave Mclain is right; the outcome was relatively predictable.
Now, think how those numbers (and the wining engine) might be different if they were topped off with a blower...
Paul
It's all about thrust...
This message has been edited by PaulKane from IP address 209.86.0.72 on Oct 23, 2004 7:26 PM
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jeff hann
(Login cletus66)
205.188.116.133 Hey, Eric@Diamond, sounds like lots of work.............
No score for this post October 23 2004, 10:56 PM
to get some solid numbers. Thanks for the effort and thank you for sharing the results. I used to sell auto parts and worked with people who couldn't change their own oil. It's good to see someone in the industry who plays with what they sell. Did that sound funny?? I didn't mean it that way. You know what I mean. Thanks again.
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JB
(Login JBR-2)
4.242.90.108 1st question: Why did the Boss quit at 5700?.....
No score for this post October 24 2004, 12:00 AM
It seems to me that it has plenty of breathing potential left,
with the cam and carbs/manifold.
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Dallas W
(Login 460stang)
24.244.74.75 It didn't.. when the dominators were installed. n/m
No score for this post October 24 2004, 2:31 AM
n/m
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JB
(Login JBR-2)
4.242.120.140 I meant without the Dominators......
No score for this post October 24 2004, 2:17 PM
Normally you don't need two Dominators to get power
all the way up to 6200, with 530 inches.
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esimone
(Login esimone)
66.208.218.116 ......the power "planed out".....the engine essentially
No score for this post October 25 2004, 8:44 AM
ran out of air.
I knew by looking at the data sheets that it was acting just like a NASCAR restrictor plate engine.
The power "leveled off", and as the engine revved toward 6500 rpm, the HP didn't increase. The valvetrain didn't float - very clean runs - and teardown confirms that there were no signs of float. My spring pressures were right where I set them upon assembly. (used springs, they had already taken a heat set on another engine.)
The wedge quit at 5500 rpm, and it only made 670 - 675 from 5500 to 6600. HP was a flat line.
I bet the wedge would really like a set of dominators....but I don't have a T-Ram top for the wedge that will accomodate a pair of 4500's
Guess I'll have to make one..........!!!
Thanks so much!!!
Eric
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Charlie Evans
(Login c.evans)
64.12.116.130 Eric - What Brand of Tunnel Ram Was On the Wedge ?
No score for this post October 25 2004, 10:56 AM
Was it a Weiand or Offy? If it was a Weiand a tunnel ram top for the Dominators is available. It's old Weiand part number 1922 for the cloverleaf style top and part number 1924 for the open style top. Either one will work and mount the Dominators.
Charlie
This message has been edited by c.evans from IP address 64.12.116.130 on Oct 25, 2004 10:59 AM
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esimone
(Login esimone)
66.208.218.116 an old offy.........
No score for this post October 26 2004, 9:25 AM
.......carbs came with too....I had those re-cal'd by Dale Cubic. Awsome carbs!
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Paul Kane
(Login PaulKane)
165.247.209.143 Offy T/R: Oldie But Goodie.
No score for this post October 26 2004, 2:02 PM
Me & Charlie did some back-to-back testing of the Weiand and Offy tunnel rams. A couple of the observations we made included that the Weiand might be suited for rpm ranges higher than the Offy, but the Offy showed much more consistent/equal flow rates runner-to-runner.
For a 533 at your two engine's operating rpm's, I'd think either tunnel ram would work well. This is assuming that the Weiand has been opened up to SCJ port size like the Offy.
It's no doubt those engines were short on carb(s) and that this was the limiting factor in peak operating range and power...
Paul
It's all about thrust...
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RJP
(Login RJP)
152.163.100.130 Work on the tunnel rams?
No score for this post October 30 2004, 1:09 PM
What was done to the tunnelrams before the tests? Was there any plenum work, port match, ect?
60 Starliner 460, 61 Starliner 427, 66 Galaxie 428, 67 Fairlane 427, 66 Fairlane 390, 69 F-250 390, 72 Lincoln 460 and 3 Ford powered Hotboats
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chilly460
(Premier Login chilly460)
Forum Owner
199.244.214.30 Bumpage...
No score for this post October 29 2004, 2:25 PM
ttt
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esimone
(Login esimone)
68.41.215.26 FINALLY!!! New Boss test results today!!!
No score for this post June 11 2005, 7:33 PM
Just got back from dyno with the Boss after FINALLY FIXING all the water leaks in the cylinder heads. What a big suprise it was with the engine sealed up & healthy this time!!!!!
I know it's been a long time since the first test session, but we're really busy at Holbrook's this time of year, and this is the first chance I've had to go back to dyno & finish my testing.
The new test results WITH DOMINATORS was 804 peak HP & 710 ft. lbs. of TQ!!!
Making my pulls between 4000 & 7000 RPM, AVERAGE HP was 756 @ 5900 rpm, and avg TQ was 680 @ 5800!!!! This thing between 6000 & 7000 rpm never made less than 750 HP, and the TQ down low was awsome, never making less than 615 ft. lbs. between 4000 & 6000!!!
Remember, this is a 94 octane pump gas piece that will be street driven - hopefully on all four wheels - LOL!!
Just thought you's guy's might want to know.
ERIC
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TorinoStyle2
(Login TorinoStyle)
24.205.113.169 Awesome!!!
Score 2.0 (1 person) June 11 2005, 8:00 PM
That is sweet!! Have you had the chance to test the wedge engine with Dominators yet??
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esimone
(Login esimone)
68.41.215.26 Not yet...
No score for this post June 12 2005, 1:25 AM
but I hope to do so in the future very soon - as time permits.
Thanks!!!!
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Tom
(Login 747JetMech)
67.164.127.15 What were they thinking?
No score for this post June 12 2005, 2:05 AM
Lets go back in time when those engine were made. Look at the rules in place for CID etc.
In my opinion, those heads were developed for a 500+ motor. I wonder why they made a head for a small cubic inch motor when, in reality, functions at its peak on something outside of the rules at the time?
Thank you for sharing your information with all of us. I know your pain in collecting the Boss parts for the comparision dyno. I have been collecting Boss parts for several years and still don't have a complete motor.
Tom
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Bill
(Login Yoeman)
65.186.171.191 They were thinking
No score for this post June 12 2005, 1:33 PM
Talladega, Daytona, 200+ MPH.
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Tom
(Login 747JetMech)
67.164.127.15 I am not knocking their accomplishments
No score for this post June 15 2005, 12:41 PM
I was bringing up the fact that the head is really made for a much larger cubic inch engine. Was there something in mind down the road?
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Brad
(Login Coupe_Devil)
216.249.160.89 Down the road
No score for this post June 15 2005, 6:56 PM
If there is something in mind down the road you can bet I'll be standing waiting for it. Those are great numbers, and its great that someone would take the time to do the tests that you've done and sahre teh information with us.
Thanks
Brad
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Njall
(Login Njall)
194.144.95.153 Big Boss
No score for this post June 16 2005, 11:56 AM
Well, Ford had plans for the 385 that never made it as far as they intended, until perhaps now. Ericīs testing is a hint at what was possible to do, even with 429 CID in late 1969.
The aluminum Can-Am blocks displaced 505 CID and that is approximately what was being discussed in Fordsīback rooms in late 1968 to early 1969 from what I can surmise. Perhaps Gary Blair or someone else with the inside scoop can tell us more correctly than I can what was going on.
I have read that, for example, the then-planned 1974-75 Mach 1 Mustang was to be available with a 505 wedge type 385.
But in mid-1970 it was becoming ever more clear that the muscle car era was about to run its course. Much evidence now points to that outcome regardless of all and any insurance premiums and federal intervention into the behavior in the market. I still want a Boss 429 ....
Does it sound very different from a wedge? Does anyone here know, first hand? Eric?
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Rob
(Login 67stang1)
162.74.52.185 Sound differences
No score for this post June 16 2005, 2:00 PM
I've run both types in a blown alcohol configuration. The first was a 557 with A460 wedge heads with an 8-71 up too 30% over and headers with 2 1/8" primaries and 4" collectors, the second and current is a 526 with AR Boss 429 heads and a 12-71 30% over and headers with 2 1/2" primaries and 5" collectors. The Boss is a little louder and has a slightly different tone, I think it has alot more to do with the bigger blower and exhaust size than it does with the different heads.
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Earl Nagle
(Login PearsonFan)
160.81.154.138 just think
No score for this post June 16 2005, 2:15 PM
where the boss 9 could have gone if Ford hadnt bailed from racing in 1970.
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John I.
(Login 10sec460)
66.38.248.228 Re: just think
No score for this post June 16 2005, 10:16 PM
Yeah, NHRA would have had to ban it back in the 70's instead of this year.
http://www.sagebrushracing.com
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Robert
(Login bigbub1968)
201.248.5.158 What Would be the results...
Score 1.0 (1 person) November 11 2005, 1:20 AM
If you have a Victor Jr. fully ported with a single 1150 BG Dominator instead of the tunnel ram? Would it have limited horsepower as much as the two 750 holleys?
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