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Top Fuel Front Engine Dragster Buildup

108K views 205 replies 44 participants last post by  Paul Kane 
#1 ·
This is the buildup of a Nostalgia Top Fuel Front Engine Dragster.

Van has decided to build one or two funny cars for drag racing (NFC). Before building the funny cars, he thought it would be nice to have a car for us to play with while the funny cars are under construction. Ultimately, it was decided to have a front engine dragster for play time.

At first, he acquired a rear engine dragster chassis that appeared to be an old Top Fuel car from the early 1970's that was built by Mike Case. That chassis was to be updated so that we had our "interim toy." Instead, the old Top Fuel chassis got cut up and its engine cradle was retained for a new front engine dragster which will be built up from scratch around the Top Fuel dragster's engine cradle.

So starting from scratch, there's a big pile of chromoly tubing gathered on the floor:



There is also an overwhelming collection of race car hardware (not pictured) in the form of Dana 60's, B&J transmissions, TH400's, etc, etc, etc. Most everything collected is really for the funny car program. So while some of those parts may not be "ideal" for the front engine dragster, they will be used and allow us to have a blast.

The dragster chassis itself is being built around a Mark Willliams blueprint and will receive the highest possible NHRA certification for Nostalgia Top Fuel Dragster.



Based on the above blueprint, slight changes will be made as noted in this thread, including the latest NHRA updates. Also, relative to the blueprint much of the tubing used in this build will be either, A) one diameter larger, or B) one wall thickness greater. This car is being built with safety in mind, and the weight difference is slight enough (in the Front Engine Dragster field) that it is of little-to-no concern and the car will remain as fast as the NHRA allows.

Next is to secure the tube bender to the concrete and start going to town:



Below, the Top Fuel dragster's engine cradle is secured to the chassis jig and the first pieces of tubing are bent and welded to the engine cradle:

 

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#155 ·
Thanks guys, the car will get a lot quicker and faster with a full day of tuning next time out. 7's ought not be a problem. With only the additon of some helmet padding on the roll cage, the Pro 7.0 class is a possibility and I think a good place for the dragster to be competing.

Below is a cool pic of the car's very first burnout.



For anyone that might have missed it, there's a video about 3 posts above this one (Post #152).

Paul
 

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#156 ·
It's done!!! I have not been on here for some time and when I am I always check in on this build. From the pile of chromemolly tube on the floor through to the build up photo's and now..... IT'S ALIVE!! How long was the build Paul? 12 month's or so? The BBF sound's great. Awsome Build and congrat's fella's.
 
#157 ·
Hi Marko,

Construction started June 2011 and was completed February 2012, which is eight months. That's for the "functioning race car proper." In order to be allowed to run down the track with the modern day safety regulatons, some safety items needed to be added such as the engine diaper, etc. That was just a few more weekends for safety items but, yes, those add-ons were exectued months later as there are a lot or projects going on over here, such as the race trailer, the tow vehicle, converting a 4-door '55 chevy to a 2-door, a frame-up resto on a '58 Ford pickup, etc. :rolleyes:

Paul
 
#161 ·
Thanks, guys. :)

Hopefully the next time out we will dial in the car's overall tune and make several full passes. Then after that I bet we'll "tilt the can" and make the engine cackle. :D

Other engine combo's being worked on and run in 2013:
  • I just finished porting the second set of A429 heads for the next 533 stroker which will be fitted with an NHRA spec legal blower.
  • Currently, I'm freshening up a 557 with iron D0VE (C8VE) heads and we'll see how fast we can get ported iron heads to go in the quarter-mile, naturally aspirated.
  • Concurrently, I'm collecting parts (actually it's complete except for the alum rods) for a blown 472 (0.060" 460) and we'll see how fast we can get ported D0VE heads to go on a blown engine.
Next year is going to be a fun one!

Paul
 
#166 ·
WOW. I know that article. It's been awhile since I've seen it and I would love to see that magazine.

But will Vandy sign your magazine? I'm betting that Van will decline and you will have to try your darndest to carefully and logically convince him, haha. He is the most modest and unassuming person I know...not egotistical, not arrogant in the least.

As much as people marvelled over his cars, as much as that magazine gushed about the Nighmare Fuel Altered and Van's mad fabrication skills, Van never sought recognition for his builds--he is as pure and passionate about drag racing simply for drag racing's sake than probably anyone else I know. He just loves to build race cars and nitro engines for personal satisfaction and if that remains on the D-L then that's perfectly fine with him.

Good luck, and if he declines just be grateful you have that Super Ford issue. :)

(Back to the dragster thread.)
 
#169 · (Edited)
This Friday and Saturday nights (June 14 & 15), Famoso Raceway is putting on Saturday Night Nitro. The nitro sessions are at 8:30 and 10:30 each evening, followed by the Jet Dragsters. Friday evening is the testing and Saturday evening is the big show.

The Front Engine Dragster just received its annual 5.0 Second re-certification, and we will be there Friday evening and doing some license passes (injected alcohol). We have 4 more license passes to go. If all goes well Friday then we might join in on the festivities Saturday night.





Come on down and say hello. If you can't make it then we hope to have some new pictures and/or video posted sometime next week.

Paul

P.S.: For detailed info about the event, click HERE.
 
#173 · (Edited)
Well, we got 4 license passes in at the Saturday Night Nitro event at Famoso. The last two passes were full quarter-mile passes. The car definitely works as it should as proven in the last two full-length passes. It does need lots of sorting as a new car often may, such as tune, stall, gearing, etc, to make it go quicker and faster. But from launch to pulling the chutes it works great overall.

Before we get to those details and pictures of the race weekend here are some pics of front wing fabrication, as it was decided to add a front wing to the car before making this event.

Ribbing for the new front wing:





Initial forming of the sheetmetal for the new front wing:




Riveting the new front wing:




Basic completion of the new front wing:




Wing installed on the race car (going through Tech Insepction at Famoso):



More Famoso pics to follow....

Paul
 

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#175 · (Edited)
Video of Shakedown Runs: The Findings

Okay, as noted in my last post the car does need sorting (as most any newly constructed car may). Areas such as engine tune, converter stall speed, rear axle gearing, etc, need to be adjusted in order to make it go quicker and faster down the track. Based on the runs made at this outing, we have deduced the following:

  • The engine tune remains rich as hell on the methanol fuel. Before the last pass seen in these videos, we literally increased the fuel return jet size by a whopping 15 numbers, and still there is absolutely no heat in the plugs. And so the engine remains in a detuned state for injected alcohol (we are not concerned, we intend to dial in a nitro tune).
  • The stall convertor speed is about 5500 rpm with the current engine power. 5500 rpm is way too high as the car cannot take advantage of the 533 stroker's flat torque curve which starts about 2500 rpm lower than the rpm at whch the car hooks up and goes. Therefore we are installing a brand new converter with different stall characteristics.
  • The TH400 transmission is not shifting correctly. It jumps from 1st gear to 3rd gear. The reason for skipping 2nd gear has been pin-pointed to the shift gate. Fortunately, this is a simple fix and not a tranny problem.
  • The 4.11 rear axle ratio is too low in conjuction with the 5500 rpm stall speed. The rear gear will be swapped out to a 3.54 final ratio. Given the light weight of the car, the torque that this engine produces, and the trans now giving us 2nd gear, we feel this is a step in the right direction.
Below are two videos from the last License Pass of the day. As most of you know, 6 passes minimum are required for general licensing, and the last two required passes are to be full-length passes. Both of the videos posted below are of the final License Pass which is 8.67 @ 151 mph. One view is from the burnout box, and the other view is from about 3/4-track.

As you watch these videos, you will notice that the engine "flat lines" down the track, meaning there is no rpm increase as the car accelerates. That is mostly due to the high stall converter. The changes we are making to the car (bulleted above in this post) should correct this. Also, in the top video ("View from Launch"), you can even see Van gesture entusiastically for the car's expected shift to 3rd gear--which doesn't occur because the car is already in 3rd gear (shifted from 1st straight to 3rd).

I would think that all the changes should get us closer to the 8.00's, but this assumes we tune the engine. Frankly we have no intention of dialing in an alcohol tune since going that direction is pointless as we intend to run nitromethane.

In the mean time, here's the first day of full License Passes down the track at Famoso:


Last Pass, View From Launch:




Last Pass, View From 3/4 Track:




We plan to return to Famoso on Jul 12 & 13 for the next "Saturday Night Nitro" event. And assuming the car's driveline is better sorted, we intend to start dialing in a nitro tune for the engine. I think that the plan is to step in at about 40%. We need to break 7.50 in the quarter in order to be properly licensed for the classes in which we intend to run the car.

Paul
 
#179 · (Edited)
This weekend (June 13), Famoso Raceway is putting on Saturday Night Nitro's second event in the three race series.

At this point in the early stages of the program, our goal is to make a pass at 7.50 or better in the quarter. While I have been stuck up here in the SF Bay Area, Van and Keven have made numerous changes to the car since its initial full-pass shakedown runs at the last outing. Based on the cars behavior during its first full passes, the following changes were made:

  • Rear gear ratio changed. Was a 4.11 final; changed to a 3.54 final
  • Torque converter changed. The first converter isn't right for our specific application and we hope the newly installed converter suits better.
  • Shift linkage modified. The shift gate was not catching 2nd gear and the linkage was modified for more positive shifting.
  • Camshaft changed. The little 257@050 cam used in the shakedown runs has been removed. The next cam that we were intending to step up to would have increased dur@050 by 35 degrees (292@050, our "baseline" cam). Unfortunately, it was discovered that the valve reliefs in the custom pistons are completely mis-located by the manufacturer. This keeps us from going to the 292@050 cam and in order to make this race we had no choice but to step cam size up by only 15 degrees (272@050) for the time being.
  • Brake system components changed. We are trying different master cylinder this time out.
  • Fuel Changed. We will be stepping into the Nitro program at 50%






Come on down and say hello. If you can't make it then we hope to have some new pictures and/or video posted sometime next week.

Paul

P.S.: For detailed info about the event, click HERE.
 
#181 · (Edited)
Update from July race:

Well, we got two runs in. Most of the changes that were made to the car were indeed beneficial: With the new torque converter, the car can clearly be heard accelerating down the track as rpm's increase; the change in the shift linkage allows all three gears to be utilized instead of skipping from 1st to 3rd; the camshaft was changed (although not to the 292 @ 0.050 one we wanted to use--more on this later); the brakes work very good now; and we ran a blend of 50% nitromethane.

The downsides are as follows: changing the rear axle ratio from 4.11 to 3.54 probably didn't help but we're staying with it because of how the car will ultimately be set up; we ran into piston-to-valve clearances with the camshaft upgrade (pistons made wrong!) so we had to go with a smaller camshaft (272 @ 0.050); and lastly, we went so lean on the tune that we melted several spark plugs.

It turns that the set of custom made pistons in this engine had the valve reliefs in the wrong place for the standard layout heads. Therefore, we could not install the big cam. Even with the smaller camshaft, the valve reliefs are deep enough that with all the valve reliefs in the pistons (4 per piston), the engine now has measely 11:1 compression ratio. This is far less than what this engine should have, and by default it becomes little more than a "mule motor" (with the low compression and the small cam) until compression is brought back up and the big cam finally installed. We want this engine to have around 14:1-- then it could be the primary injected nitro engine. But for the time being, we went to the track with the low compression/small cam engine.

The best pass during its very first day ever at the track back in June was around 8.67 @ 151 mph. After all the changes, its first pass this July was 8.38 @ 164 mph. That's a gain of almost 3/10th's & 13 mph right off the trailer.

After that first pass in July, Van leaned the jetting 16 numbers, advanced the ignition timing, and for the second pass we melted 4 spark plugs going down the track....yet the car still managed 8.28 @ 162 mph, which means the car launched good but as each plug burned away the car go slower and slower as it went down the track. Based on the appearance of the spark plugs, we think the car did 8.28 @ 162 mph running on just 6 cylinders. Sometimes, this is part of sorting out a race car.

So, the injected nitro engine will come out and a blown alcohol engine will be installed in its place. We'll get back to the injected nitro engine when it has the right pistons and cam installed, and we believe the car will get into the 7s with it no problem since it managed low 8's on 6 cylinders. But for now, the chassis has had it's shakedown runs and is good to go. Next time we go to the track, the car will have a blown alcohol engine.


Here's how the pistons looked after the much needed valve reliefs were cut. Needless to say, no-one was happy when it was discovered that this set of custom pistons were made incorrectly, grrrr!





Here's a picture of Keven grabbing second gear in the car and carrying the front wheels mid-track:




Video of first pass in July, 8.38 @ 164 mph.



Paul
 

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