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460 with 390 flywheel, starter?

38K views 21 replies 17 participants last post by  srshll 
#1 ·
I'm in the process of swapping out my dead C6 for an NP435 in my 77.5 F-250 4x4. I plan on buying a 390 flywheel for a 76 F-250 with a 184 tooth count and can't find any info about using a 390 starter on a 460. I'm using a 400 bellhousing with a 3/16" plate in place of the backplate to help clear my 12" clutch. I just wanted to make sure i had a starter that engaged the flywheel completly. Thanks for any help.
 
#3 ·
We had a customer who did this and he couldn't figure out why the starter drive wouldn't last very long. I think he ended up using the 460 starter with a drive for a 390 and the 390 wheel and it worked ok, I think....
 
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#6 · (Edited)
Maybe they exist but, I have never in over 30 years come accross a 188 tooth flywheel with the regular automotive / light truck FE or 429/460 diameter.
150some teeth, 176 teeth, 180 teeth and 184 teeth but, never 188 of that diameter.
The McCloud / Weber flywheel dedicated for a 385 series engine is also sold by FRPP as the Z460 with a removable weight for "zero" or "counter" balanced applications and it has 176 teeth.
 
#5 ·
zoom FE 184 th wheel, lakewood can, I ended up using the late model sbf starter with the bigger registar and the 3/4" offset. good mesh both radial and longitude. the stock 460 didnt work for me because not enough tooth engagement longitude. 390 starter didnt work because the "hump" hit one of my header tubes.the late model truck starter didnt work because it didnt not engage enough either way.the lakewood can rotates the starter and changes the mesh if the starter has a non centered pinion. i put a gear reduction stater on it to help crank the 12:1 motor, a powermaster 9503 ( i think).........ron
 
#8 ·
flywheel



Because they are easy to find, cheap, and more importantly Zero balance. In the early 90's I actually paid something like $250 for a 460 flywheel from L&L to run a heavy duty 12" clutch. On a different truck I had earlier done the 390 flywheel with a custom built 11" clutch and used a regular 400 Ford starter that usually lasts about 5-7 years and the difference in durability pulling trailers and hard farm abuse was negligible.

FWIW Mark
 
#14 ·
ok, because if you use a 351m or 400 bell you have to use a 390 or any net ballance wheel,other wise no starter will work,a real 429 wheel is a diff od,and will not work right with a 400 bell,

as far as starters go

you can use a 351m,400,429 or 460 starter, ive done this swap about 30 or more times for people
 
#15 · (Edited)
A 390 FE and a 460 "automotive" flywheel are within a few THOUSANDTHS of one another on the ring gear O.D. Just the tooth count is different.
EDIT: Yes ... A production 351M/400 and production 460 use the same starter ...
 
#9 ·
flywheel and starter

The 390 flywheel ring is .009 inch smaller than the 460. The pitch diameter is the same. That means the teeth are exactly the same profile. What does change is the number of teeth on the ring. If you use a 390 ring you will not totally engage the teeth properly with a 460 starter. In other words, the starter will be too far away by about .005 inch. [1/2 the .009]
Will it work? Most likely. Will it work exactly right? Never. I had Kentucky Clutch balance a flywheel for me recently. I had a 1986 ext balanced flywheel that I needed to make into a neutral balance to fit a 1977 internal balance 460 that was going to replace the 1986. I had a machine shop turn the trapezoid lug off of the back of the 1986 wheel. KY Clutch then only had to drill a couple of holes to balance the wheel to 1/4 oz. If you need this kind of help, it is hard to beat this shop, their price, or their knowledge.
 
#11 ·
I have a 1979 ford that had a c6 auto trans. I took it out and found a 400 bellhousing and 390 flywheel to bolt up to my 460. It works great other than my starter does not engage deep enough in the teeth. It keeps takin the outer edge of my teeth off and the flywheel is 184 tooth. Any help would be appreciated. Thanks
 
#12 ·
Like Dave said, use a 390 starter bendix in a 460 starter or use a 3 bolt 390 starter; (just don't use the center mounting bolt).
You could also always buy the correct flywheel from FRPP.
 
#17 ·
Quote:
Originally Posted by BOSS 429
ok, because if you use a 351m or 400 bell you have to use a 390 or any net ballance wheel,other wise no starter will work,a real 429 wheel is a diff od,and will not work right with a 400 bell,

as far as starters go

you can use a 351m,400,429 or 460 starter, ive done this swap about 30 or more times for people

A 390 FE and a 460 "automotive" flywheel are within a few THOUSANDTHS of one another on the ring gear O.D. Just the tooth count is different.
EDIT: A production 351M/400 and production 460 use the same starter ... < AS DOES A 429




OK YOU JUST SAID THE SAME THING I SAID? WHY?

AND NO FACTORY PROD 429 WHEELS ARE A DIFFERENT SIZE, THATS WHY LAKEWOOD S HAVE 2 DIFFERENT BOLT PATTERENS ON BLOCK SAVER PLATE


RICH


CAPS STUCK ON AGAIN
 
#18 ·
what I have done is knock the ring gear back flush with the face of the flywheel to provide the extra tooth engagement, as long as you indicate it true when the wheel is surfaced it will be fine, all old ford starter drives are the same 9 tooth, get an input shaft from a 435 that was behind an fe, it is shorter than the 400 input shaft and eliminates the need for the spacer between the block and bell, or neutral balance a newer wheel, I've had to do it with a disc grinder in a pinch, true 429/460 flywheels use the same ring as the 351/400, if you dig around ford put a 13" dual disc clutch in the f600 and up trucks behind the 429, bell was deeper to accomodate, very heavy but doesn't slip, most 370's and 429's in heavy trucks used a 13" single disc , won't fit in the 400 bell though, f-600 uhaul trucks with the 359/389/391 used a very hd 435 that had a 1 3/8" input shaft that will bolt right into a regular 435, output shaft was 35 spline and had a 1410 or 1480 yoke on it
 
#20 ·
Fwiw I have a 78 f250 4x4 np435 that had a 400 in it I switched it out with a 460 with a 460 flywheel and the same starter. If you have a bb 460-400-351m bellhousing on a np435 it will work just fine. There is only three np435 bellhousing sizes, smallblock, big block FE, and the bigblock 385 - modified. The two bolt starters will work with either small block, big block or modifieds.
 
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