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  #31  
Old 10-28-2012, 03:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by D Pope View Post
I bought a Canton rear sump pan and pickup off the forum and it comes with a windage screen. Is there anything to choose between the Canton screen and the Milodon solid tray? I also got a Detroit locker so that'll be better than the Ford posi.
Pope, I think for what you're doing with the engine either should work just fine.
Rob
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  #32  
Old 01-26-2013, 06:37 PM
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I might as well have all the engine build stuff on this thread.
I had to do some modifying to make the oil pan and windage tray work. First the pan was hitting the tray so I moved it as close to the crank as it would go. This cleared but the rear centre two louvers in the tray were almost touching the counterweights. I flattened those two louvers out a bit and now I have at least an eighth an inch clearance between the windage tray and the crank at all points.
The oil sucker couldn't have been made to use with a Melling high volume pump. It lined up on the middle main all right but that put it an inch or so below the bottom of the pan. It would have fit if I'd drilled the hole in the brace bracket bigger and held it on with the main nut but I didn't like that idea. Instead I cut the bracket off and moved it to the rear windage tray mounting bolts and MIGed it together. There's almost a half inch clearance between the pickup and the pan so that's good to go.
I used grade 8 bolts to hold the pan on for one really good reason. They have the same gold anodized finish as the Canton pan. That's a good enough reason for me!
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1949 Mercury coupe
Nosed, Decked, Frenched
58 T-Bird interior
472 w/toploader 4 speed OD
Performer RPM w/Holley 3 barrel
Isky 304 degree solid cam
Narrowed 3.25 9.5 inch with Detroit Locker
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  #33  
Old 01-26-2013, 07:36 PM
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I stuck a few valves in one of the heads to check the geometry and stuff.
The stud pads haven't been milled but it doesn't seem to be a problem.
I rotated the engine and at all times I could push the valves down at least an eighth an inch so there's no piston clearance problems.
With the valves closed the roller tips are touching the valve stems a bit towards the pivot point. When they're open the rollers are maybe two thirds the way across the valve stem.
Looking at the rockers endwise they're always pretty much centered on the valves all the way.
There's a quarter inch between the retainer and the guide with the valves open.
I put a piece of plumbers solder between the stud and the rocker and it doesn't mark the solder when you work the valves through their full cycles.
With the valves close to zero lash there's only about an eighth an inch of thread showing inside the poly lock nuts so I'll have to shorten the studs a bit so the locks will work.
There's at least an eighth an inch clearance between the rockers and the retainers at all valve positions.
The closed spring length is 2 inches but should be 1.8 inches for the Comp springs so I'll get some of those offset keepers and try them.
I was surprised that the Isky solid lifters have the pushrod socket as a separate piece held in with a snap ring.
I don't think I missed anything.
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1949 Mercury coupe
Nosed, Decked, Frenched
58 T-Bird interior
472 w/toploader 4 speed OD
Performer RPM w/Holley 3 barrel
Isky 304 degree solid cam
Narrowed 3.25 9.5 inch with Detroit Locker
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  #34  
Old 01-26-2013, 11:08 PM
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Pope, a set of the longer poly locks will solve the lack of thread problem without cutting the studs down.....if you have enough cover clearance, then you could run a girdle if you want.
Rob
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  #35  
Old 01-27-2013, 07:00 PM
68xr7cat 68xr7cat is online now
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I am curious what spring you are intending to use. An .800" seat height sounds a bit low. If it is a dual spring you are going to have to have the valve spring pockets cut. You also will need to have the valve guide ends cut down and use a PC type seal. The metal viton ones are the best to use.

I'd also recommend using a hardened spring locator. Once all that is done you can put shims under the locator to set up your valves. You can also use offset keepers, but keep in mind that negitive offset keepers will move the valve retainer closer to the valve guide and seal. You want to have a min. of .060" between the retainer and valve seal.

Your rockers on the exh. are a little off to the side. Would not say is a big deal, but looks like on those rockers that the side of the rocker comes down close to same level as the roller. I would be concerned that in operation that it not contact the valve tip.

The rockers are also very low. Are they for a BBC? I'd try an adj. pushrod to see if you can get them up higher. It would also take care of why your poly lock is so low. Cover the valve stem tip with blue marking compound and cycle the valve. As long as the pattern is centered and not wide you are good.

Honestly for a solid lifter cam and the 350 lbs or so spring pressure you should be running I'd recommend getting a better rocker arm like a Crane gold, FRPP, or TFS for BBF.

Steve
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  #36  
Old 01-27-2013, 08:37 PM
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The springs are Comp Cams and the loaded pressure is @ 1.2" The compressed length now is 1.4" and the closed length is 2". That means I need .2" less spring height. The guides are already shortened. I've got 5/16" clearance between the guides and retainers when the valves are open. I can get .1" out of different keepers and another .1" out of spring shims.
They're BBF rockers with the longer slot in them. I don't want roller fulcrum rockers with a solid flat lifter cam. The loading and unloading of those rollers will shake them apart in no time.
The roller tips on my rockers look to be wide enough to avoid contact between the rocker and the valve stem.
The longer pushrod is worth looking into.
Thanks for the input.
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File Type: jpg Comp valve springs.JPG (92.9 KB, 4 views)
File Type: jpg Isky Z89.jpg (85.1 KB, 4 views)
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1949 Mercury coupe
Nosed, Decked, Frenched
58 T-Bird interior
472 w/toploader 4 speed OD
Performer RPM w/Holley 3 barrel
Isky 304 degree solid cam
Narrowed 3.25 9.5 inch with Detroit Locker
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  #37  
Old 01-27-2013, 09:51 PM
68xr7cat 68xr7cat is online now
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Those Comp Cams 924 springs sorry to say are not going to work. They coil bind at 1.175" which would leave you .020" on the intake at full lift which is just too close. For a street build you best to stay at least .100" from coil bind.

As for the spring pocket, again needs to be flat, you need to cut it. Regarding the guides, you cut them down, good, but what are you going to do for valve seals? I could be wrong, but your valve guides look std. diameter. If they are you need to cut them to a smaller dia. like .530" to fit a PC type seal. The inner spring you picked for example is .697" which means your valve stem seals need to be less than that by a safe margin.

About your rockers well all I can say is years ago all there was unless you had lots of money was the factory type ball socket type and they would fail with heavy springs because of the unit loading and friction caused by it. The roller fulcrum reduces that friction and is no issue with a solid cam.

Steve
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  #38  
Old 01-27-2013, 10:48 PM
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Steve, where did you get the coil bind @ 1.175 figure? Comp rates the springs at 1.2" compressed length so I assumed that would be where you'd operate them.
I brought the heads back from the machinist so I could check everything and do the porting. They'll finish the machining on the guides when they do the valve grind.
I'll use the spring locators too and shim under them.
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1949 Mercury coupe
Nosed, Decked, Frenched
58 T-Bird interior
472 w/toploader 4 speed OD
Performer RPM w/Holley 3 barrel
Isky 304 degree solid cam
Narrowed 3.25 9.5 inch with Detroit Locker
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  #39  
Old 01-28-2013, 01:03 AM
68xr7cat 68xr7cat is online now
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Got it right from their site:

http://www.compperformancegroupstore...ClevelandValve

Personally if you want to go with a Compcams spring I'd look at PN: 930 Considering this is for the street I'd set it up at 1.950" will be 135 lbs seat with 348 lbs over the nose at 1.350". If you want to turn it more than 5,800 RPM set it up at 1.900". The retainers from your other springs should work with that spring too.

This chart may be of use:

http://www.compcams.com/Base/pdf/ValveSpringChart.pdf

Steve
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  #40  
Old 01-28-2013, 12:52 PM
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I did the old clamp it in the vise to check coil bind length and it's 1.094. That leaves .104 clearance with 1.2" open length. Is that enough?
I put a small nut in the pushrod socket in a lifter and that lengthened the pushrod length by 3/16". This started the roller position out from centre of the valve and it moved out from there as the valve opened until it was right at the outside edge so I guess longer pushrods are out of the question.
I'll get .1" offset keepers and spring retainers with a shim to .1" and that'll have the springs at the right height.
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1949 Mercury coupe
Nosed, Decked, Frenched
58 T-Bird interior
472 w/toploader 4 speed OD
Performer RPM w/Holley 3 barrel
Isky 304 degree solid cam
Narrowed 3.25 9.5 inch with Detroit Locker
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  #41  
Old 01-28-2013, 01:46 PM
68xr7cat 68xr7cat is online now
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Should be able to get a .060" feeler guage between the coils of both springs. I don't recommend collapsing a spring to coil bind as it can weaken the spring. Make sure to measure them for proper seat pressure. Do as you wish, but that 924 is really not a good choice for your cam.

I'd again suggest a different rocker arm. Again do as you wish, is your build, and I hope it works out for you. You do have an nice build in that 49 Merc.

Steve
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  #42  
Old 01-28-2013, 02:38 PM
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Pope, looking back at the pics it looks like the contact pattern is already too far out on the stem with the push rods that you have now. What length are they? Did you say that you decked the block? As you probably already know, there are two camps for proper rocker geometry, one is the mid lift theory and the other is the minimal sweep theory. And harmonically speaking a shorter heavier wall push rod is always better.
Rob
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