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27T Boss 572

55K views 90 replies 22 participants last post by  PickupTrucker 
#1 ·
OK guys (and gals ) , just got word today from Cliff @ JKRE that my parts are on the way. So i thought I would start a thread on the 27T Boss 572.

Parts ordered so far...
-C and C Aluminium block , 4.5" bore 10.32" deck.
-Bryant crank SBF snout , 4.5" stroke
-BME Aluminium rods
-Diamond 20cc dome top pistons ( 14+ : 1 )
-Danny Bee billet timing kit
-7/16ths JKRE pushrods
-Crower rollers
-Boss 9 Heads complete.
-Boss 9 Covers
-Boss 9 Intake

Hopefully they arrive in a week or two. During June/July we then;
-Mockup in chassis for new front and rear engine plates
-Mockup heads and covers for body clearencing
-Measurements for the new JPP fabricated sump.
-New mounts for the Peterson external oil and Waterman sprint fuel pumps.
-Heads to SpeedTorque for work and flowing.
-After headwork , order appropriate roller cam.
-Manifold machining for alcohol injectors and my 2500CFM throttle body/barrell valve
-Manifold to SpeedTorque for match porting and flow work
-Bottom end mockup for deck check etc
-Block to SpeedTorque for final hone and deck prep.

During this time we will freshen the current C6 out of the hotrod as my fallback/spare gearbox , and prep two transbraked C4's for testing also. We are going to see how much abuse the C4 can take.( I am glad I have SFI bell and sheilds for the C4 , may need them ).
I will use C6 torque convertor from locals at AllFast convertors , with adaptors for the C4. I expect something in the high 5000 to 6000RPM stall range , looking at the point where Jon has been making his power recently with Boss9 headed combos.Last resort is a powerglide.

Then in August it should be final assembly and off to the Dyno.

The car is currently 1880lbs with me in it , 545ci iron block and A429 Ali heads. With the new aluminium block , lighter rotating assembly and C4 , the diet may realise 150lb or more making the combo in the 1750lb range. If I can get the power and torque to the track , watch out as it should be a screamer.

So thats the build . Will take photos and keep all updated as I go.

John
 
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#55 · (Edited)
Thanks guys,

the engine will be good when we get the bugs sorted on it.

I just think the engine knows the extent of pain I am going to inflict on it on the dyno , and its fighting back.

I will update again when we fix it .

Graham, you got any cams lying around , 292+ @50 and around the 800-820 lift mark? I wouldnt mind doing a setup with a larger cam to look at geometry etc.

John.
 
#56 ·
I might be way off course here, but why are the Z bars on your lifters facing the water jackets?? Aren't they supposed to be facing the other way? When I built my first roller engine, I thought the Z bars were supposed to face the water jackets, but wouldn't fit without clearancing the block on all four corner cylinders! I asked around, and found that they were supposed to be installed facing inward, been that way for several thousand miles, with no problems. Just my thoughts.

Wayne SAWDOFF) Pearce
 
#57 ·
Your in luck John , my cam spec`s are just about right on your money with the lift at 0.821 int and 0.783 exh and the duration at .050 is 286 int and 298 exh , better yet the cam is sitting on a bench at my brother`s workshop.
If you want to borrow it for a while leave a phone number or an email address and we can organise something.
My brother`s place is not far from Ian Jenkins shop.

Graham
 
#59 ·
Wayne/Rob,

all the lifters pointing to the centre is correct on a wedge head with a straight tie bar.

With the hemis valve angles , you have to have the intake towards the centre and the exhaust towards the block , and therefore a Z shaped tie bar between.

Lifter oil feeds are drilled to suit. Only with hemis , all the other heads are facing the valley.

Kaase , with the full on 800+ ci racing hemi use a Jessel keyway lifter that has no tie bar, and as such no clearencing. But they are like $2400 a set plus $1000 for the inserts fitted. Was too rich for me at the time , but now if you add up all the machine time , it would have been about the same and getting a much stronger lifter compared to my crowers.

Graham, yeh that would be great if you could drop the cam off at Ians. You can have a look at the block issue in real life. Home phone is 9272 6570.

John
 
#61 ·
I feel your pain. I went through the same problem with my new aluminum block and z-bar lifters. There is not enough thickness in that area. Ground thru, barely had enough clearance for the tie bar anyway.

I went ahead and opted for Jesel keyway lifters. They are expensive, but will solve the prolem. If you do go to Jesels, be careful to get the centered pushrod configuration, as the pushrod seats are very low in the lifter, and angle out in two differant directions. Also, depending on what diameter pushrods you choose, you may have to use narrow lifter ends to exit the lifter shell without contact.

I hope this helps.
 
#63 ·
Thanks for those words of advice , it is a little bit of pioneering with this combination over here.

I do agree with the timing. The engine wont start under 15* , and is very unhappy at 25*.

We were inching up on timing when the water issue made us take stock and stop , prior to hurting it. When it did have 28* , it was just starting to get happy. We think the engine is indeed going to like quite a bit of timing , and with that will come handfuls of torque and power.

We will see how much when we fix it and get it back on the dyno.

Spoke to Jon Kaase friday night and he gave me a few clues on welding these blocks , the use of a helium/argon mix and 4043 rods. I knew about the helium mix , but would have stuck with a 5356 rod. We have both , so will do a bit of testing prior to getting into the block itself.

John
 

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#65 ·
General update for those following.

Well we welded the engine up again, cracks were quite bad.

Clean everything and re-assemble, do a test fire up in the shed on Sunday, and guess what , more water again. The cracks are just propigating from the welds , even with good preheat in the block. So , pull the entire thing apart, clean it and start again.

This time Ian has run over the entire surface from deck to lifter bores the entire length of the block. Spitting and carrying on when the weld puddle went over thin spots, cracks, porosity, casting impurities etc etc , but we are now sure that there are no thin spots or porous spots. Back on the mill again this weekend to clearence again for the lifters, the lifter bores need a hone as they have tighten up with the welding, and will pressure test before assembly again. A whole day, bottle of gas and 1/2 box welding rods , the bl$%dy thing better not leak this time otherewise I am going to fill the f#$%ing thing and run water in the heads only.

All good fun, not!! Block looks worse that a 20 year old ex fuel hemi inside it has that many welds on it. Cant see it with the manifold on so only we will know.

Post an update as soon as we get some positive news.

John
 
#67 ·
I feel your pain. I did not weld repair my aluminum block. I used epoxy, and an aluminum plate on the lifter bore rails to hold the epoxy and provide more hight to support the lifter bushings. I will let you know how it works out.

Having oil in block really inhibits a good weld as oil penetrates into every pore. I would suggest soaking the block in an oil desolving solvent for a long time, then soak in a cleansing solution for an equal time. Steam clean and let dry in the sunlight if possible. If no oil seeps out of the pores in the hot sunlight, you should be good to go. You can also pre-heat in an oven to accomplish the same thing.
 
#68 ·
If you look at the picture a couple of posts back, that was the before shot.

Those who feel ill when they see new stuff look old real quick , dont look at the photos below. Should have the lifter bores honed today, then do some clearencing which got us into trouble in the first place, then pressure test.
 

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#70 ·
Hi,
My first post

I am the guy that had the pleasure of welding this wonderul block.

The last photos of the welding also leaked after machining. What I realy needed to do was weld the inside of the water jackets to increase the wall thickness.

What I did eventially was to weld some thickness in between the lifter pairs to act as support posts between the deck and lifter area.

Then I cut windows above the lifter pairs where the machining will be, and then welding 5/16" plates from behind . Once the thickness was the same between the posts and filler plates the cracking stopped and the block now holds its water (tested at 120 psi).

The dyno is booked next month. Once a baseling tuneup is established we might give it a warmup cacklefest on some 95% nitro that I have left over. (Just to see what it sounds like).

Ian
 
#71 ·
Dyno Session No2

Hi All,

Anyway, she went back on the Dyno last week.

We still have an issue with it missing , wether its spark or fuel charge contamination is yet to be seen. Still not making the power I wanted.

Result after many fuel tuning changes, spark gap changes, lash changes, timing changes (32 pulls in total) was 963hp @ 7250rpm and 749lbft @ 5750 rpm.

Mechanically the engine looks fine. Back to the drawing board though!

Regards

John
 
#72 ·
Hi All,

Anyway, she went back on the Dyno last week.

We still have an issue with it missing , wether its spark or fuel charge contamination is yet to be seen. Still not making the power I wanted.

Result after many fuel tuning changes, spark gap changes, lash changes, timing changes (32 pulls in total) was 963hp @ 7250rpm and 749lbft @ 5750 rpm.

Mechanically the engine looks fine. Back to the drawing board though!

Regards

John
did you ever determine if your block had core shift or was defective casting?i ask because i have a new block that was clearanced, and i talked with jon kaase machinist about it,and he said he has done many of them with no issues,and it should be approx. .500 inch thick in that area.also i noticed you only had problems with the drivers side.glad to see you kept with it for all the problems.
 
#73 ·
Hbstang,

it was core shift that was the problem, as it was only thin on one bank, but good luck on the 0.5 inch as even the thick side of mine is only 1/8th inch.

J Shelfo Snr had similar problems but he went straight to keyway lifters and epoxy filled the thin areas.

Luck of the draw I guess.

I have decided to upgrade the hardware on the heads and go titanium 2.4 intakes, as well as more duration and cam lift. I want the Hp over the 1050 mark even if it is on a conservative dyno.

Regards

John
 
#74 ·
Well I have been off the forum for some time due to an accident at home. All patched up now and newly retired. I had a scare that showed me how quickly something can be taken away from you and if You dont have to work 6 days a week anymore, its worth while to slow down and smell the octane so to speak.

So back on the engine program. We stripped her down after the last dyno session and had a few issues. A slight ring butting issue, so hone and new rings. Slight oil contamination in one or two cylinders that may have been the cause of a miss that started around 6000rpm and possibly caused by ring butting. Looks like the valves were walking around a bit at high rpm, so changed out the big heavy stainless steel valvels for a set of titanium , increasing intake to 2.35" while at it. A set of BBC heads from a local known fast naturally aspirated altered ( 7.0/7.1 at 200mph), that went 1000hp on the same dyno I use, came into get serviced, and a quick breath on the bench showed that under similar conditions the Boss heads were as good on the intake +5% and +15% on the exhaust. So no futher port work at this stage.

During my time recovering, we looked at the breathing issue and the manifold. Not wanting to go for a hat and tunnel ram, we decided to shoe box the Boss 9 manifold, increasing plenum volume by a factor of 2.5x. I will post a in progress photo soon.

With the things we have found we hope our next dyno session will include some real tuning time, shooting for 1100hp +.

Will keep updating as I progress.
 
#79 ·
Engine is all back together now , but then the Race Tracks throw a spanner into the whole sport in Australia!
I am going to get the engine in the car first and finish body and trans mods before next dyno session. Buy my time until the #%^*fight settles.
I will dyno it prior to racing to get a tuneup, but will settle for tinkering around in the shed for a while,
John
 

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#80 · (Edited)
Back Again

Back again after a long absence. Track management has changed and IHRA are our of the picture (back to ANDRA) so I put the car back on the track for a few meetings. Still doing shakedown passes and sorting out the new combo issues. Also have to reeducate the driver(me) after 6 years out of the car. We will see how it goes.
 

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#82 ·
Entered for the Western Nationals this weekend. Had the trans and converter out after shake down passes a few weeks ago, and converter stall showed as 7000-7100 rpm on the hit, bit high so Simon at Allfast has pulled 750 rpm out of it and I've upped to an 8000 chip in the limiter. Trans as always looked fine, so with 4 qualifiers on the weekend I hope to start putting down some representative passes. A mid 7 @ around 175 would be nice starting point.
 
#83 ·
A Big Win

Hi all,

Well I won the Western Nationals but didn't get my record. I was advised by a wise friend to Race , not go for the record, because it will come. So I concentrated on going rounds and ended up with Summit Western Nationals win. 7.67@173.8mph is definitely not as fast as it will go, but mildly modified C6 with shift kit, foot brake racing off a 3000 two step, 9000rpm chip, it hauls ***. Happy as!
 

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#86 ·
Hi all,

Well I won the Western Nationals but didn't get my record. I was advised by a wise friend to Race , not go for the record, because it will come. So I concentrated on going rounds and ended up with Summit Western Nationals win. 7.67@173.8mph is definitely not as fast as it will go, but mildly modified C6 with shift kit, foot brake racing off a 3000 two step, 9000rpm chip, it hauls ***. Happy as!
Just saw this. Congrats 385 brother.
Was there lots of chevy tears as you where putting them on the trailer?
 
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