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7.3L Powerstroke to Allison...Has it been done?

23K views 17 replies 5 participants last post by  e3507.3idi 
#1 ·
My father has a 95 Powerstroke, low mile, loves it. However, he's aging...and operating the clutch is becoming a problem. He hates the newer trucks, wants to keep his old ones, and doesn't want an E4OD transmission due to the obvious durabilty problems these transmissions have had (and continue to have) towing heavy loads for long distances. He tows a 5th wheel all over the US.

I've been looking at the 7.3L transmission options, and it appears that several other vehicles were packaged with a variety of Allison transmission options using either an SAE2 or SAE3 bellhousing pattern, so the bellhousings for the engine must exist. Namely, busses and delivery vehicles had the 7.3L powerstroke engine and either a 4spd or 6spd allison. This would be a much preferred option. Has anyone done this? Will it fit the truck tunnel without too much hammer work?


Byron
 
G
#2 ·
you can build the e4 to be a very strong and reliable unit, cheaper than an allison swap by far. Best thing would be to fin a wreck that has all the auto stuff in it, build the tranny, then swap it over. I just sold such a wreck.
 
G
#5 ·
99 and up use a 4r100, many changes through the years, would take a novel for me to list it all. The latest greatest from ford in the 4r will be the 02-03 03 1/4 went to the 5r110 and is the unit used behind the 6.0. Yours was an 10 right? Gotta watch out for that didaster of a mechanical diode ford stuck in there as it will fail. You can use a 4r in and older truck, just a few minor things need to be swapped to make it fit. The best route is to build the earlier unit with all the late model guts and aftermarket stuff, then you are good to go. Gotta address the cooler situation as well.
 
G
#9 ·
any e4/4r built right will run a good 4k. A quarter of the price is the converter. I do have a buddy here local that has a PI converter like BTS uses (actually got it from Brian) but it is filling the cooler with metal. Brian is shipping another out asap even though its out of warranty, zero charge. Bts has the best customer service I have ever seen, Brian is super sharp and a hoot to talk to on the phone.
 
#10 ·
Well...

How much serious towing use and abuse have you guys done with the E4OD or 4R100? You must have had better luck than we have. I'm not nearly as optimistic about those boxes.

My father has a circle of friends with powerstrokes and belongs to two "RVer associations". He keeps record (paper records) of what everyone has, how long they've had it and what problems they had with it. He has over 30 people in his list with fords...and not ONE of them have successfully made an E4OD nor 4R100 last over 80K miles, no matter what had been done with it previously. Many of these transmissions have been modified by a variety of "great" transmission company labels...and they didnt cut it. Couple that with my own experience with 4R100's and E4ODs in the performance pickup tuning market; and I'd have to say I'm NOT impressed. I wouldn't dream of towing a 5th wheel behind my E4OD in my little light 93 lightning...and it's the top-stage Level10 built unit. Even so, last time I took the pan off, let's just say the crap in the bottom and in the filter didn't leave me feeling that I had anything that resembled a bulletproof transmission; and it's less than 60K mi old. In fact, I expect it to grenade at any minute. I hardly ever tow with it; and my truck makes 400/450 to the tires; nowhere near the torque a powerstroke can put out.

Additionally, I don't see any tremendous benefit of going to an electronic transmission for dear old dad...and would prefer not to have to retrofit in a controller or convert the PCM over to one with transmission control. It's added cost and complexity he just doesn't need.

So back to the AT545.

Considering they are commonly used in busses, delivery trucks, water trucks, haulers, etc and a complete bulletproof remanufactured unit can be had for $1500 or less, it seems like a very attractive option to me. Non electronic, not too huge, easy linkage. The lack of lockup can be remedied if I wanted to use an AT542...some had a lockup converter. Or, a good tight low-stall converter is all he'd need. The 1:1 4th gear would require a tall rear gear. Again, very doable and inexpensive. He doesn't need a lot of bottom-end grunt; there's no stump pulling going on at age 70, and the top open-road speed is maybe 70-75mph at the most. I think all it takes is a block adapter and a bellhousing to bolt one up to this engine. And, of course, a custom driveshaft and a custom floor pedistal for an Allison shifter. Considering the ease of installation, strength, and cost, I don't see why more people don't do this...I must be missing something.
 
#17 ·
How much serious towing use and abuse have you guys done with the E4OD or 4R100? You must have had better luck than we have. I'm not nearly as optimistic about those boxes.

My father has a circle of friends with powerstrokes and belongs to two "RVer associations". He keeps record (paper records) of what everyone has, how long they've had it and what problems they had with it. He has over 30 people in his list with fords...and not ONE of them have successfully made an E4OD nor 4R100 last over 80K miles, no matter what had been done with it previously. Many of these transmissions have been modified by a variety of "great" transmission company labels...and they didnt cut it. Couple that with my own experience with 4R100's and E4ODs in the performance pickup tuning market; and I'd have to say I'm NOT impressed. I wouldn't dream of towing a 5th wheel behind my E4OD in my little light 93 lightning...and it's the top-stage Level10 built unit. Even so, last time I took the pan off, let's just say the crap in the bottom and in the filter didn't leave me feeling that I had anything that resembled a bulletproof transmission; and it's less than 60K mi old. In fact, I expect it to grenade at any minute. I hardly ever tow with it; and my truck makes 400/450 to the tires; nowhere near the torque a powerstroke can put out.

Additionally, I don't see any tremendous benefit of going to an electronic transmission for dear old dad...and would prefer not to have to retrofit in a controller or convert the PCM over to one with transmission control. It's added cost and complexity he just doesn't need.

So back to the AT545.

Considering they are commonly used in busses, delivery trucks, water trucks, haulers, etc and a complete bulletproof remanufactured unit can be had for $1500 or less, it seems like a very attractive option to me. Non electronic, not too huge, easy linkage. The lack of lockup can be remedied if I wanted to use an AT542...some had a lockup converter. Or, a good tight low-stall converter is all he'd need. The 1:1 4th gear would require a tall rear gear. Again, very doable and inexpensive. He doesn't need a lot of bottom-end grunt; there's no stump pulling going on at age 70, and the top open-road speed is maybe 70-75mph at the most. I think all it takes is a block adapter and a bellhousing to bolt one up to this engine. And, of course, a custom driveshaft and a custom floor pedistal for an Allison shifter. Considering the ease of installation, strength, and cost, I don't see why more people don't do this...I must be missing something.


email me I have the complete parts list for the at545 to the 7.3 everything needed to do the swap as I am doing the same swap got all the part numbers from allisson them selfs
 
#12 ·
Byron My truck has 120,000 on it now and I drive it regularly when I need it I load it down, I know many times I have tipped the scales @ 18,000lbs and all I do is change the fluid and filter regularly and when on a long Hill with a big load I take the cruise off and I don't like it Banging the down shift. I just try and take care of it.


Randy
 
G
#13 ·
The biggest deal is the crappy pwm converter lock up, inadequate snap rings, loose clearances, soft shifting, few other things here and there, you can make them last a long time. The other biggie is adequet cooling, the stock coolers are marginal at best, stick a torqshift cooler on it and worries are over. There are a ton of guys out there that say they can build a great tranny, but only a small handfull can. I did one for a kid in kansas that drives all the way down here to race, truck goes like mid 12's with traction issues at 7600#s. He does tow a great deal with it as well. The towing is a lot harder on them, you just need to address the problem areas to make them live, and they can be made to live..
 
#14 ·
OK

Even if you can make the Ford transmissions strong enough, why would you want to spend $4000-5000 on one for this application? Remember, this truck does NOT already have an automatic transmission. It's a stick. Also, remember this truck has a resale value around 6-7K tops. I can't see doing it; from a cost, complexity, and durability perspective.

BUT, find that Allison AT545 in a salvage truck for cheap and put it on the back of the old 7.3, and I think you've got something worth doing. Considering you could probably do the whole thing under $2K including the rebuild and yield the durability that made it popular for tow trucks, dump trucks and school busses...without the complication of the computer control...it makes me wonder why I don't see them everywhere.

I guess if you already had an E4OD or 4R100, a performance rebuild might be OK. But, starting with nothing...the Allison sure looks good.

I spoke with International today and got confirmation that all the parts are interchangable. Its just a matter of how much tunnel clearance it would or wouldn't have...and whether or not you'd have to lift the cab and bed to make it happen. It's doable though; so they say. And, they confirmed that in this application, it would be, "One hell of an overkill transmission for a pickup truck as far as durability is concerned." The guy also mentioned that with nothing but the better frictions and "normal" rebuild stuff they do to the reman units, they will hold 800ft-lbs for 100K+ miles in a heavy hauling environment. I'll do some looking and see what I can find.
 
G
#15 ·
I dont know, all the bigshot diesel guys use the 4r stuff, if the other was a better option they would be using it. Still lots to change to get it to work right, again the cheaper solution is to find a wreck donor vehicle, or just find a good used automatic truck to start with. I love my 4r, of course its been really worked over and actual money I would say I spent about 500 bucks, but I have resources. If you could find an 02 4r to start with a lot of the updated parts will already be in it. Good luck with your search, if you need any questions answered on the 4r I will be glad to help, do not know didley about the other.
 
#16 ·
Have you thought about just putting in a Cummins? Check out www.fordcummins.com if I remember correctly. It might cost a big more upfront but you would be able to maintain that Ford good looks and it would last a lifetime. My dad switched over from a 7.3 years ago and never looked back. He puts on a ton of miles using his truck as a pilot truck and pulling a 35' holiday trailer. Never had a tranny problems.
 
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