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Trying to put a 460 in my mustang

38K views 147 replies 12 participants last post by  mustang1967 
#1 ·
Hello everyone. I am new here and need some advise and help. I have a 1967 mustang coupe that currently has a locked up 351 Windsor in it. I Just recently bought a 460 and c6 trans from a 1977 F250 and I would like to put it in. I have never done an engine swap like this and really would like to know everything I have to have and need to get done. Right now I want the 460 to stay stock. I need to know stuff like will my current engine and trans mounts work? Do I need to have the drive shaft I have altered or can I use the one I got with the 460? All the help I can get would be great. I am trying to get the car on the road in no more then 2 months time. Thank you for your time and advise.
 
#2 · (Edited)
Hi and welcome to the forums!

First, what condition is your Mustang in?

Secondly, do you want headers or manifolds?

I have a near stock 460 i my 67' with a small RV cam. It moves my car with little effort so, its very fun to drive.

Either drive shaft can be reused just the length needs to be adjusted. Any local drive-line shop can do the shortening if you aren't a welder.

Now, please forgive me if i make the following sound negative or describe the swap as being too difficult to you. But, this swap can be a pain to some that expect an easy time.

I am definitely not trying dissuade you or anyone from attempting this swap. But, it can be like any swap, an expensive mess if it isn't though out first.

The shock towers can be a pain although they are spaced further apart than the older Mustangs. If your shock towers have any rust and or holes cut in them you might want to repair them before proceeding.

Which steering box do you have? The earlier 67's have the solid shaft/column and the later use the "rag joint" This makes the headers an issue in the older 67's.

In fact, the steering box in my 67 was too fat to allow my first set of (expensive) headers to clear without denting the tubes. These where part of a 460 swap kit that i bought from Ford Powertrain Applications http://www.fordpowertrain.com/FPAindex/FPA index1.htm My shock towers where bowed in too much for the kit to work though.

Not sure if any other header will work in the 67~68 Mustangs for the 429/460. There might be a chance that some other manufacturer's will fit not sure.

Cutting the shock towers and plating them for clearance is recommended though, not really necessary. It helps in allowing access to the spark plugs/wires and the header bolts.

The motor stands that i had in the kit, where copies of the Boss 429 stands. These used the factory Boss 429 insulators that placed the engine further forward than i anticipated. This caused several issues. One of them was that the kits headers hit the steering box and the engine was too far forward for my tastes.

The Boss 429 used the short style water pump as the engine is moved forward in the chassis by the mounts. Now the Boss 429 was in the longer 1969/70 engine bays so keep that in mind.

Personally, I ended up trashing all of the shock towers and the crappy steering box, replacing them with a 1977 Mustang II suspension. (This is not for the fainthearted nor non mechanically inclined) and i couldn't be happier with this outcome.

I went with a cross-flow radiator with three rows and some modified brackets. The cooling department should be carefully considered as these are fairly tight engine compartments. Hard to get the heat out of them.
 
#3 ·
The suspension is in good shape except for the sway bar bushings are completely shot. Not sure what gear box it has. I have a buddy that is going to help me put it all in. I want headers because I want it carbureted. If I can for now I want to keep the stock headers until I can afford to get custom ones made. Not looking for performance right now just trying to get it where I can drive it. I will have to check tonight but I think it has been converted to springs in the front. I know more about modern cars and not the old ones. I started working on this as it was a last request my mom asked before she past away last year and I am wanting to finish it.
 

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#4 ·
I can tell you which steering box you have if you post a picture looking down near the brake master cylinder. That angle will more than likely show enough of the steering Column for a determination.
 
#6 ·
I will get you a picture in the next few days. I am so glad that you have decided to help me. I have asked several people and they just laugh at me and tell me I am stupid for trying to put a 460 in. I am not afraid to have to do work. Only thing I have is a limited budget right now. Like I said just trying to get it at least in and able to run so I can start it so the engine will stay in good shape while I finish up getting the drive shaft shortened.
 
#8 ·
Hey no problem. That's what the forums are for.

The people that think that its stupid to swap in a 460 are more than likely, not sure that they would have the talent to do it themselves.

Have you done any fabrication? If you have, there is a chance that the motor stands that you need can be fabricated or adapted. The motor mounts can be bought (for a 1971 Lincoln Continental?) from local sources.

Again, the mounts place the engine forward in the chassis. This can cause some fitting issues. Anyway, there is something else that i forgot to mention. The transmission mount for the C6 is special for the 67~70 Mustangs. It can be bought here https://www.mustangsunlimited.com/itemdy00.asp?T1=5059+01

Here http://www.cjponyparts.com/c6-transmission-crossmember-1967-1970/p/TCU3/

Also, the C6 intended for the Lincoln usually has the longer tailshaft with the wrong V-shaped mount. That would cause issues that are to be avoided. If you can take a pic of the trans/engine that you plan to use that will help as well.
 
#9 ·
The stock oil pan will work. However, it might hit the swaybar.

The shown radiator will probably work. However, two things. The lower hose is on the wrong side as the 1970 and up 302~460's are on the driver's side. That, and the supplied fan will have to go on the other side of the radiator as the water pump will be too close.

If you where to get the earlier water pump like the 1968 Thunderbird/Boss 429, you would also need the brackets and the pulleys to match. The pumps and the pulleys can be hard to find sometimes so it might be a pain to find them. But, they're worth having as space in front of the 460's waterpump is at a premium.

I have modified the radiator core support on my Mustang to mount a 1971 Torino sourced cross flow radiator. This was a bit of work, but, it has a little more room to play with.

Even so, i still had to mount the fan on the front behind the grill to clear the water pump.
 
#10 ·
I just got done doing the same thing in a Fairlane. Not too much difference in the two. I say go for it. It is very rewarding to see that beast under the hood once you are done. I too am having issues with clearance to mount an electric fan. Just take your time and look at everything ,and it will fit. Also, moving your battery to the trunk is very helpful and almost needed.
 
#11 ·
No I haven't done any fabrication. I am getting both motor mounts and trans mount from the vehicle that the engine is coming from. The engine is coming out of a 1977 F250 Ranger. Not worried about the sway bar seen as like I said the bussing are shot on it right now. I can get you pictures of the engine when I get it from the guy either next week or the week after. He is pulling it out for me.
 
#15 ·
Depending on the mounts/swap kit used, the oil pan will hit. I won't say I road race mine, but with a big heavy engine, it handles well without it. My truck has a broken sway bar link on it too, I'm just too lazy to fix it, and I do drive it hard, and it still handles ok. Just don't run junk shocks...
 
#17 ·
I have a set of Crites GEN to mounts if you decide to go that route. I just "gave away" a set of Crites Gen I mounts, and ceramic headers.

Whatever you do, DONT by MPG kits. He makes a conversion kit, I got it in mine. I think the mount design is not as good as crites, and his headers required a ton of re work. BUT once its in, it the Eng does sit nice in the car, and you can use stock hood etc.
 
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#18 ·
What exactly is that? I am definitely going to put the 460 in. If it can be done why not have a nice big powerful engine in there lol I mean that is what muscle cars are for. If they will help me get the engine in I would love them. How much do you want for them? I live in FL.
 
#21 ·
You will need frame mounts, insulator or motor mounts, C6 Trans mount, either crites headers or stock manifolds. I did see a guy at the track that had significantly modified a set of 69 or 70 429 headers to work. front sump pan, drive shaft. Youll need to think about the rear, if you have an 8 it wont hold up much abuse.
I also have a narrowed 9 inch housing that bolts to stock 67 springs.

Regardless, your gonna need the frame mounts. If you go Crites, Ill hook you up, as I don't need these.

The Gen II mounts alleviate some of the water pump rad clearances had with the Gen I. Eng is farther back.
 
#22 ·
Ok and where is the best places to get all that? Also will the stock pan work? It is from a 1977 ford f250 ranger. Can I use the mounts from that? Also am I able to run it without headers until I can get custom ones made or will it not work? Also if you think that the ones from the truck I mentioned above won't work and you think the gen 1 is my best bet I will defiantly go with them. I had someone else tell me that using the old mounts mentioned above from the truck ( engine and trans) will just cause problems. And what do I have to do to get the mounts in? Do I have to have them welded in?
 
#23 ·
Stock pan will work so long as its a front sump.
The stock 460/429 insulators (rubber mounts) may work, you will have to cross ref those part numbes with say a early 70s 460 car. Not sure if the Trucks used a different rubber mount.
The frame mounts, what connects the motor mount to the chasis is the key.
YOu dont want GEN I, as it puts the eng up really high and forward, GEN II is the standard.
Exh manifolds are fine, again depending on where the exh collector is. If in the middle between the middle two cyl, prob wont work as the shock tower is right there. If it dumps out the back and down, your probably fine.
Go with the GEN II frame mounts, and rubber motor mounts, that way you can just order a set of Crites GEN II headers later on, or use a set of JBA Shorties. No need for customs as they are pricey and really not worth it unless your running huge horses or some other custom clearnace issues.

This is all based on the assumption your keeping the stock suspension, change to coil over or MII front suspension, it all changes.
 
#32 ·
No welding, you un bolt your old frame mounts or pads, then bolt the new ones in. The put the isulators or motor mounts on your engine and drop it in and bolt those together.

The critical piece to this conversion is the frame mounts or frame pads. That's what allows you to bolt the BBF motor mounts to the chassis. But its all bolt in stuff. Your replacing that metal bracket your motor mounts to right now.
 
#36 ·
Trust me, not sure what your finances are, but a Lincoln 140 mig, and bottle, and a compressor are two INVESTMENTS that will pay huge dividends in a car project.

When I got to pricing rod shops and body shops for some of the basic work I needed, the estimate for one floor pan was double the cost of a a welder and compressor and floor pan from NPD. That opens up a blank slate to what you can do with a car.

Don't be held back, those tools are like adding nitrous to and engine, its INSTANT car crafting capability.
 
#37 ·
Well I already have the floor pans and I have someone that is going to put them in for me for $100. Finances are kind of tight. Do you know where I can get the remaining part for the gen 2 mounts you have and how much you want for what you have or would it be better for me to just buy a new complete set?
 
#38 ·
Put that $100 towards your own MIG,.... :):):)
 
#39 ·
I have my own mig but I would rather when it comes to stuff like floor pans and anything else that could put my life at risk I would rather have a pro do it. I don't know how to weld yet. Now if there is other body work that doesn't involve my safety they I will do it myself
 
#40 ·
Man, DO NOT think that way. Paying a Pro is just handing your money away. I used to thing the same, but as I progressed through the project and folks on this forum talked to me and helped me, its saved me tons. Unless you have a Pro Friend who does if for nothing. Don't pay anyone to do something you can do your self. Take that money and take a welding course. I knew how to Arc Weld from high School, and as a Salvage Diver I learned to underwater weld. None of that was really applicable to using a mig on a car. Not even the same techniques.

If you can run a glue gun, you can do this. Practice makes you better at it.

http://www.fordmuscleforums.com/body-paint-articles/483578-floor-pans-brave-but-inexperienced.html

Above is a link to my first real welding project, started with the floor pans, they were rough, but nothing there really life threatening. Pretty easy actually.

Best part, all my mistakes are covered by seam sealer, paint and carpet. Greaet learning project that let to the whole front aprons, shock towers, body panels, cowl, rear end tubbing and spring relocation.

Go for it.
 
#41 ·
I just don't know if I would have time to. And the place I am thinking of taking it is a high school that my sister in-law works at and it would be done my the students and teacher and help teach the kids. My welder is from harbor freight and I have never even touched it or welded ever
 
#44 · (Edited)
Also, I might add. If you plan to notch the towers, it would be a good indies to do it now before the motor goes in. A lot of welding to do right by the motor. It took me about 3 1/2 hours to do it , and it shouldn't take you my longer. And the best part is, that it won't cost more than maybe $20 for the steel. The rest is your time. You will be glad you did it now instead of later.
 
#45 ·
To add to the excellent information posted above^^^^^^^ I would recommend getting the engine mocked up in the chassis before replacing the floor pans. I say this to keep the project moving as the floor pans can be daunting to the first timers.

This is not to say that you can't do it, its just that they can be frustrating if things don't go the way you might imagine. Sometimes the car just sits with the floors cut out and the project scope becomes overwhelming. This is of course, how basket cases are born..
 
#47 ·
As with his welding link, he also has an awesome link to the notching,..just Google it, it'll pop up.

I wouldn't use a HF welder, I have yet to read from anyone that has one that says, "Yea, I just love this baby!"

Even an beginner will have have much better work from a real welder, it'll be hard to tell whats worse in action, the machine or the welder himself.

As far as the Vo Tech school welding, I'd take my chances myself vs a shop guy who may have never replaced floor pans. The worse you can do is screw it up and then just start over.

To me, this hobby is all about what we can do with our tools to our cars, ourselves!

Either way I'll be following, I've got a 67 Hardtop up on a rotisserie right now,..moving at a snail's pace for sure. :(
 
#48 ·
Well unfortunately a HF welder is all I could afford and can afford. I no nothing about welding and would rather not spend 500-600 for a decent welder when I can use that to get the car on the road. The teacher who would be doing my floor pans has welded for 40 years and worked on several old cars.
 
#52 · (Edited)
http://www.fordmuscleforums.com/suspension-articles/498392-notching-shock-towers.html

Shock Tower Notch how too. Your getting overwhelmed with advice, not uncommon, just don't shut down.

Several logical steps here. Before you do anything with your car chasis wise, have it speced on a machine and make sure its square. Cutting and welding on a crooked car will only make a solid crooked car.

Then, regardless of what your gonna do with it, Id invest in subframe connectors to lock it together.

This will be important when you start cutting floor pans.

Id do floor pans first, as its out of sight and you can learn as you go. Only replace what you need. I agree with the others. a cheap new welder is not gonna do it, go to Lowes or Sears and get an interest free credit welder and bottle and watch the DVD that comes with it. OR go and take that welding class, best bet there.

The school shops? My next door neighbors Sunbeam Tiger has been sitting in a shop for years, waiting for the curriculum to come around to that part of the courses. When its not being worked on, its rolled out into the rain. There are four or five nice shells out there where guys thought they could get the school to do it cheap.

Finally, friend that was gonna do mine on the cheap. Once he got into and saw the time involved, and amount of welding, he said you gotta pay me more. Its not a hard job at all. Its just a lot of welding. And by welding, I mean not running continuous beads - its lots of tacks and burn throughs.

So instead of being held hostage by a guy on the cheap wanting more money, I just put that coin to a welder.

You really are better off doing it yourself, join a local Mustang club and have some folks come over and help you, trust me they will. Never met a car dude who didn't want to help out and show you how smart they are, this thread is full of them, including me:)

Finally and I have to pimp other sites, but FordMuscleForums.Com has a ton of tech articles on their site. I wrote a bunch of em like the link above, there is also a lot of folks who will walk you through this step by step. That's how I got mine to where it is.

Don't lose faith or get discouraged. The floor pan job really isn't that tough. But you will need a welder if you stay after this project, it will benefit you in all walks of your project, not to mention the boat trailer and utility trailer I have built, because I have a welder.
 
#53 ·
I just really don't have the money to get a welder from lowes. I already have 8,000 on credit cards and really don't want to add more. Also what is this bottle everyone keeps talking about. There are no local mustang groups where I am. The one I had joined is based out of Las Vagas and they are the ones that told me it wasn't going to work for putting the 460 in it. I am getting overwhelmed but I will not give up. I went to lowes the other day and got a piece of metal the same thickness as the floor pans to practice on. As for the school there is no curriculum they just weld a bunch of things and the teachers promised me that if the students are not working on it then they will be. I also have no time to take a class. I understand what you all are saying and I understand. I may still look around and see if i can't find someone to help weld them.
 
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