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Road Racing 78 THUNDERBIRD

28K views 54 replies 12 participants last post by  bird of pray 
#1 · (Edited)
I'v been going over this for years now . They used to race the THUNDERBIRD on the road course in the 70's and a Gran Torino went to the 24 Hours of LeMans and placed really good (11th overall I think) out of 45 car's . I also used to have a 77 THUNDERBIRD that I drove alot on Saturday night and came home "very" happy . Well , I miss the speed and the power . But this time I'm going for the big times . I want to run in the Redline Time Attack's in the unlimited class . I now that it'll take 2 years to get up there near the top , but I now what it takes to handle better then a 911 turbo .

After I get going , my short term goal is to get a 460 in it(8.4L) , 3,200 LBS weight , full ground effects that can work without wings .....and it will have wings . Win one RWD Unlimited class .....maybe over all on the right track , even if I have to let some else drive . Be street legal and have A-C .

I'v beat two $80,000.00 cars with a car I bought for $900.00 . I'v never been bet by money , and If I do , they will have to put millions and millions into it . Granted , I did'nt race cars I could'nt bet , But then again I didn't race full race cars . I'v been bet yes , but not by money !

But what I need from you guy's is help , and tips . I know a lot , but not everthing . And it's the little things or the $2.00 part that gets you every time . I'm not on the web that much , some times . And it is a Ford and it's modified and I'm racing it . I will be doing lot's of overtime when I can if I don't get backers . I will already.... even now have people who think big blocks are stupid and the Ford haters will be in full force , I don't need it here too . As soon as get rid of the Lincoln and buy the THUNDERBIRD you will get pictures and progress . My budget says I can buy it next mounth on my first check .Well , here goes !!!
 
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#30 ·
If I were going road racing w/ my car, I would probably track down a 2003-up Crown Vic front aluminum cross member and suspension and add cop car front springs, cut/weld the frame to get rid of the spring pockets/shock mounts (making the crossmember easier to bolt in) and get a 14" Baer brake upgrade kit:

http://www.ford-trucks.com/forums/716058-buildup-06-crown-vic-front-suspension-into-67-f100.html

http://www.streetortrack.com/Marauder-Crown-Vic-2002-2003-c-473.html

This'll give you rack and pinion steering, big brakes, decent geometry, lighter weight.
I would also plot that suspension into an analyzer and see if there's anything simple that can be done to improve geometry (slotting mounts?).

Here's a rear brake kit that'll work on a torino/tbird rear axle and give 13" rotors:

http://www.ssbrakes.com/commerce/detail/index.cfm?nPID=9060

i would also look into doing something like this to address the weight distribution:

http://www.hotrod.com/projectbuild/113_0312_1963_chevy_nova/index.html
 
#32 ·
I'm not going UNLIMITED !!

The class I'm running in on the Redline Time Attacks is a class that you need to use the stock frame and body (modified class) . I can still change the roll center and the handling level without welding or changing the frame it's self . Tubular upper contol arms and bigger sway bars will amaze you , and just putting on 18x8"s on our cars will do wonders .
 
#33 ·
Can't see how you can change roll center w/out frame changes. I have big sway bars and much stiffer front springs. The changes make a huge difference, but I know that there's a huge difference more between what we got w/ the stock frame and what is possible. Unfortunately, there's just no way to get there w/o cutting. Tubular control arms won't fix roll center/camber curve by just bolting them in to the same holes that are there. Stiffer and lighter, yes. Changing geometry, no.
 
#34 ·
You will have to change caster and use longer ball joints . You basicly are just moving your roll center "closer" to the center of gravity by a couple of inches . And don't go to stiff with the front springs (650 front , 450rear to start), both swaybars ..yes . And speaking from a running on Friday an Saturday night point of view , I do think our frames are really untapped .
 
#35 ·
Looks like you're going to need about 2" longer ball joint. Keep me posted as to what's available. I made my own 650 springs (cut down 01 f150 4x4 front springs) and they are too soft still (much improved over stock 400's) for the street. They are getting cut down to raise the rate up to about 750 (and lower the car about 2 1/2"). The 200's I have in the back make the rear of the car stiffer then the front, and ill be leaving them. They should match pretty good when I'm done raising the front rate. For road racing I'd probably go w/ about 900 or 1000 up front and about 275 or 300 in the rear. I've heard that Chevy van front springs can be cut down to give desired rate. I have the stock Lincoln 1 1/8" front and 5/8" rear bars. My car needs more rear bar, which would compliment the heavier front springs combined with the thick front bar. PST sells a 7/8" rear bar. I think "psquare75" on this board, has one in his Cougar. He may be able to shed some light on how it installs, how it handles.
 
#37 · (Edited)
I drive a 76 Elite. Same chassis as a 78 tbird. It's my daily driver. Nothing special, just trying to make it handle as well as I can get it to. Holman & Moody used a Galaxie chassis (basically the same thing). They would cut the top of the frame off, weld on a new spring bucket (lowering the upper control arm mounting area, which "fixes" the geometry) and add fabbed control arms. see links:

http://www.ndgearheadscruiserproducts.com/id35.htm

http://www.motorator.com/videos/901

Here's a link showing some of what found searching and asking, to modify the front end for better geometry.

http://forum.grantorinosport.org//72-torino-stock-car_topic1514_page1.html
 
#38 ·
Heard my name. :)



Only picture I have of the rear bar from Addco. It's a 7/8 bar and bolted right in. There is a larger rear bar (1 1/16" not sure) from a 77-79 police package LTD II but they are VERY difficult to find. The cheapest solution would be to use a front bar flipped to the rear of the car and installed with some brackets welded onto the frame. Then you could use a 1 1/8" front bar in the rear if you chose.

FWIW, Having run several store-bought shock absorbers in these cars, stiffest I found by far were Bilsteins for a P71 Crown Vic. Bolt right in. HOWEVER, with 17" wheels and even 275/50/17 tires, which have a decent sidewall, the car rode like a truck. With 15" 225/75/15s, The car was about perfect for street duty.
 
#44 · (Edited)
Springs support the load, shocks control the bounce of the spring. Stiffer springs would do a better job at stopping the header from bottoming out. Siffer shocks should be used to help control the siffer springs.

You don't want longer shocks, you want stiffer springs. Longer shocks would just bottom out, which is bad for the shock. Choose a shock with the same or very similar compressed and extended dimensions.

I used 2001 f150 4x4 springs cut down to give me about 650 lbs per inch, up from about 425 or something like that. I've heard of cutting down chevy p/u and van springs to fit also, but may be too stiff. I would go to rock auto and cross reference springs from different applications (bigger cars, big block cars, etc) and look for thicker wire diameters. Some even give spring rates. Also, go to ebay, look at the springs there and ask sellers to measure wire diameter w/ an open end wrench. Here's a link to a coil spring calculator. Most of the front springs are about 5 1/2" diameter. You probably need springs w/ one flat end. That goes at the top. The bottom of the last coil should set in a pocket on the lower control arm. That's how I came up w/ my set up. Also, cuting off coils raises the rate, so if you buy a longer spring @ 550 and cut a coil off, the rate will be higher by the percentage of coils that you cut off.

http://www.proshocks.com/calcs/coilsprate.htm
 
#50 ·
Look into Q-A1 shocks and springs for a mustang 2 style front end . Or on the least , lower the mounting point on the lower control arm if you use the vett shocks . So you can keep the lower arm as straight as possible to be level to the ground . Stock car parts stores have up to 1200 Lbs springs . About to take the rear end to the shop to put in new mounting points , disc brake mounts and new arms , and yes , I will check the pinion angle . But I'm not shure on the type of tubes on the lower arms , round or square .
 
#52 ·
I'm sorry .

I'm putting in a different motor all together . I miss the power . A friend took me for a ride in his new modifid Zo6 , and yea , it did feel slower then any 460 I ever had , just saying . I'll do the rest of the car info at Pro-Touring .com and (heres were I lose a lot of you ) diyelectriccar.com . It will make more sence later . They do smog in Las Vegas so I can't put a 460 in my other 96 car . The car will be lighter and should be very fast . And it should cost me same to finish it . At least when I compare prices of parts .
 
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