460 Ford Forum banner

C4 trans behind 460 help please

21K views 38 replies 14 participants last post by  Falcon67 
#1 ·
I have being doing as much research as possible and used the search option so much that i have almost broke it. :)

From my research this is what i have come up with when using a C4 behind a 460:

I am going to purchase a jw ultra bell Part #92461, this bell can be used with a case fill or pan fill transmission.

The C4 pan fill trans has a 11 7/16 bolt pattern and will bolt to the stock C6 flex plate. The C4 trans fill has a 10.5 inch bolt pattern and will not bolt to the stock C6 flex plate. I would rather use the C4 converter than use the C6 converter with the spline adapter.

I need to check the converter to pump clearance. I might need to use to block to trans plates even with the Jw ultra bell.

In a fox body i will need to cut the welds and adjust the cross member to fit the c4

If any of the above statements are incorrect will you guys please set me straight, and give me as much information as possible.

I have a few questions also:

Are the pan fill and case fill coverters interchangeable with either style?

What are the fox body guys running a 460/C4 combo using for a filler tube? stock? Custom? Flexable style?
 
See less See more
#3 ·
I'll answer a few .
Pretty sure you'll have to use the 164tooth 11 7/16 converter with that bell. The 10.5" converters are a shorter converter.
Also the 460/C6 flexplate is 11 7/16
You will need a block plate at that also helps locate the starter

As mentioned the pan fill and case fill converters are different lengths , 6.5 vs 5 7/8

I've used a few P.A dipsticks fit pretty much anywhere
 
#11 ·
people mes this up all the time, when you by an ultra bell theres a paper in the box that says DONT USE BLOCK SAVER PLATE, ive had to take them out more them once for people,

the only time we have ever need one was when the converter( 1 time) was built wrong, if you have the right starter,flexplate,correct spacing for the convert, it will not be needed


std c6 flex plate,stock 302 auto starter,done


besure to check clearance between convert and the head of flywheel bolts


-rich


there are 2 diff c4 style converters , 69 and older,and 70 and newer
 
#13 · (Edited)
Here is what I have so far,
have a 75 pan fill core being rebuilt
purchased a used ultra bell,
having a converter built with a larger bolt pattern
using a stock 460-c6 flexplate
have a aftermarket high torque 460/429 adjustable starter (should it fit?)
what filler tube are people using? I don't have a stock filler
will a stock aod mount work?
Will the stock aod speedo cable work?
What do I need for a kick down cable?
 
#14 ·
I use a gear starter made here in Australia but looks much the same as any works well
I have used the Pan-Fill dipstick tubes from P.A but TCI do one thats the same .

Kickdown cable depends on type of valvebody. Manual valvebody it is not required and can remove the kickdown shaft and plug the hole
Auto valvebody can go either way .
 
#19 ·
If the bellhousing bolts to the case and the dip stick goes into the pan it is an C-5.
If the bell bolts through the pump then it is a C-4
The only way a C-4 can bolt to a 460 is with a aftermarket ultrabell.
There is a 460 stock bellhousing for a C-5
Sorry. I didn't realize you had an aftermarket 460 bell for the C-4
 
#22 ·
You need to check your facts as they are plain wrong. The C-4 was made from 1964 to 1981 in both a case fill and pan fill version. From the factory the pan fill attaches the bell to the case, the idea was attaching the bell to the case did not put the torsional stress on the front pump. The case fill uses the front pump bolts to attach the bell which allows a smaller bell for fitment in cars with tight firewalls. You will also hear of the case fill refered to as a step case and the pan fill as a flare case.

Pan fills were used in the bigger cars and most trucks. In 1970 some internal changes were make to the C-4, mainly changing from a 24 spline input to a 26 spline. The VB was changed which affected the case inside. You can put an early VB in a later case, but not the other way around.

In the mid '70's some C-4 were used behind the 351M which has the same bell pattern as a 429/460 Ford. They were all pan fill.

From 1982 to about 1987 the C-4 was modified and became the C-5. It included a different VB and a torque converter with a centrifugal lock up clutch. The bell was about an inch longer because of the converter.

If you change out the bell, VB, and govenor you have a C-4. The C-5 IS the best core choice for a HP build. There was several oiling mods to the case and front pump that are a good thing to have. The retainer groove in the direct and forward drums usually are cut higher too which helps for getting more clutches in the packs. Steve
 
#23 ·
My father in law has been building trans. for 44 years. He is as much a ford man as anyone on this site. The C-5 was mainly made for trucks in the early years before they made it into a lockup version for fuel conservation. This is about like people think chevy's and ford have different firing orders. They don't. They just named the cylinders differently. No big deal, if he just ask for a pan fill tube for a C-5 or C-4 he will get the right part because it's about like going into an auto parts store if it's not on the computer these guys are lost....
 
#27 ·
You can look at the case all you like , that tells you absolutely nothing

C4 come in both Pan fill + Case fill
C5 come in both Pan fill + Case fill

The differences are mostly internal other than the minor differences already mentioned externally of the larger fittings for cooler line and the fine front band adjuster threads .
The casting code on the case tells the story

They are not the same internally either ............

The #9 washer is different and has a lube feed in the case
The sun gear is different with larger lube holes for the planet gears
the input shaft in C5 is different
The clutch setups in the drums have minor differences + differnt thickness steels and pressure plates
The high reverse drum has a higher snap ring groove to fit in the cushion plate
The valvebodies are different
Pan different to accomodate the different valvebody + filter
Some differences in the pump casting with "EO" casting code
That's just a few i can think of for now ;)
 
#31 ·
I just had a C-5 built and it has a screw in modulator. Used the C-4 bel and tail shaft and output as well (I think). I just know becasue my TCI brake is for a press in modulator and this is a screw in, Dam I'll still have to have some one go through the JUNK tranny to find out why it burning things up.

Ace
 
#32 ·
We run a full racing Automatice shop. We utilize the best drums from each to get 6 to 7 frictions per drum. I order parts from WIT and Transtar everyday and have had no problems getting the correct parts. Their are many different C-4 or C-5 (what ever you want to call them) but the main objective for us is performance. A lot of guys but PA trans for around $1800.00 then after they burn up they bring them to us to fix. After that they bring them to us each winter. I apologize if I offended anyone that was not my intention. The best trans is the one you can forget about because it gets the job done.
 
#38 ·
i had the same issue with my tci converter i had to send it back so they could weld a new front housing on it , it looks like a bowl the clear the bolts. they use a very common standard converter housing when making the c4 converters and from what i found its a fairly common issue when trying to bolt up to a bbf flex plate, i cant remember off the top of my head what they called that specific "bowl type" converter housing but i can find out
 
This is an older thread, you may not receive a response, and could be reviving an old thread. Please consider creating a new thread.
Top