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  #1  
Old 08-25-2009, 04:26 PM
Maulerman Maulerman is offline
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Default 460 vs. 454

I think I'm going to get a lot responses on this one. Recently on Horsepower TV they built a reasonably stock 460 and a reasonably stock 454 and the damn Chevy made 31 more HP and 31 more torque.

I think it should have been closer than that. What did they do wrong that gave the nod to the Chevy. It sucks because one of the hosts claims to like Fords. He sure screwed up on this comparison.

I'm hoping someone else saw the two episodes and took notes.
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Old 08-25-2009, 04:38 PM
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Well there is a major problem in comparing those two engines.... or any two engines on that matter...

We were talking about this on another thread....

Here is just one big power obtaining factor that differes big time in three years of production.

1971-460
Compression 10.5.1

1972
Comression 8.5.1

1973+
Compression 7.75.1

Then you have to compare the same things witht he 454.

No two years of a 460 are exactly alike! Same thing with the Chevy stuff.

There is no way to keep from comparing Apples to Oranges or Bannanas, or strawberries, or even Kiwi for that matter! LOL

Just means that is what their dyno showed on that particular build and on that day.... doesn't mean squat!
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Old 08-25-2009, 04:53 PM
DaveMcLain DaveMcLain is offline
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30 horsepower is only about a 10 percent difference and I'd say that's within a reasonable margin for a comparison like this one. I would say that an early 1980's 460 when compared to a "peanut" headed 454 would be very very close one way or another. Same for one from a '72 Chevelle and a '72 LTD etc.... As said earlier the engines would have to come from the same era production and emissions wise for it to have any meaning.

The 454 is not a superior design to the big Ford when it comes to making power.
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Old 08-25-2009, 05:10 PM
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i'm curious what will happen once the "gloves come off" i'm sure it'll be the bowtie again based on the poor cam choice for the ford IMHO.
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Old 08-25-2009, 05:38 PM
sheffield.mike sheffield.mike is offline
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well "gloves come off" probably means they will use all the edelbrock stuff. thier advertisers are mostly chevy related so there will be little to no actual competition. the chevy will win. in "real world" type competition (like engine masters) the fords do quite well compared to the chevys.
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Old 08-25-2009, 05:50 PM
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ok i dont know anything about the chevy, but i iirc they used the retarded timing set, i dont think they cleaned up the exhaust port on the ford so if thats the case then i think the chevy's port is alot better then the ford stock for stock, and the CR was way down on the ford (dont know about the chevy), and they used the stock dizzy (stock curve). so i think if they had someone building the 460 that knew what they were doin the 460 would of made more power for the same money or cheaper
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Old 08-25-2009, 06:03 PM
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Exactamundo!
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Old 08-25-2009, 06:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bbfhnj View Post
ok i dont know anything about the chevy, but i iirc they used the retarded timing set, i dont think they cleaned up the exhaust port on the ford so if thats the case then i think the chevy's port is alot better then the ford stock for stock, and the CR was way down on the ford (dont know about the chevy), and they used the stock dizzy (stock curve). so i think if they had someone building the 460 that knew what they were doin the 460 would of made more power for the same money or cheaper
Thats what I was thinking too. They were a bit shy on details for both engines. Makes it hard for someone to do a real comparison.

I thought while I was watching that show, "Oh boy, here we go, all the Chevy boys are gonna run wit this one. "Yeah, well on Horsepower TV the Chevy made more than the Ford!!"

Yeah, well, we'll see on the track.

Bill
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Old 08-25-2009, 06:33 PM
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I just watched both episodes from www.spike.com and noticed the cam specs. The 454 used a Hydraulic cam with 228/238 degrees duration at 0.050 lift. The 460 cam had a comp hydraulic cam with 0.494 total lift, which is probably the 268H. It has 218/218 degrees duration at 0.050 lift. Seems like the parts they used were biased towards the chevy
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Old 08-25-2009, 07:29 PM
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LOL. I still remember when those guys modded a Termi Mustang Cobra. They did a pulley change, etc, then used a handheld tuner. Then they claimed that a majority of the horsepower was a result of using the handheld tuner, which is the exact opposite of what they should have said. Looked to me like someone took a "donation" from the company that built that tuner..
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Old 08-25-2009, 08:02 PM
Maverick Maverick is offline
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That show is nothing more than a 1/2 hr. infomercial. The people who buy the advertising get the dyno numbers they want. Ever notice how they continually mention they parts suppliers' names, but you hear very little technical data?
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Old 08-25-2009, 09:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 501ranger View Post
I just watched both episodes from www.spike.com and noticed the cam specs. The 454 used a Hydraulic cam with 228/238 degrees duration at 0.050 lift. The 460 cam had a comp hydraulic cam with 0.494 total lift, which is probably the 268H. It has 218/218 degrees duration at 0.050 lift. Seems like the parts they used were biased towards the chevy
all the **** you read, and see on t.v is to promote chevy products! it is the capitalism towards the masses .....they "chevy" people have been trying shoving this **** down our throats for years. like " it's cheaper to build a chevy ....yada, yada...
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Old 08-25-2009, 09:09 PM
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Tell em to try and stroke that Cheby and put some cubes in and watch what happens
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Old 08-25-2009, 09:50 PM
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I like this, its funny that for many years in our truck pulling it is a given fact that chevy boys are running DART blocks, DART heads, MERLIN etc. etc.

Ford guys on the other hand are mostly FORD blocks, FORD heads, a lot of times a steel truck 429 crank......


Funny part is ....... WE STILL WIN !!!!!

OH yeah, I thought it was cheaper to build a chevy.......
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Old 08-25-2009, 10:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hookin78 View Post
I like this, its funny that for many years in our truck pulling it is a given fact that chevy boys are running DART blocks, DART heads, MERLIN etc. etc.

Ford guys on the other hand are mostly FORD blocks, FORD heads, a lot of times a steel truck 429 crank......


Funny part is ....... WE STILL WIN !!!!!

OH yeah, I thought it was cheaper to build a chevy.......
EXACTLY.. LIke i just ranted about in the tech. OEM head rule...
GMPP irons are allowed.
Definitly Bowtie Biased.
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