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Jon Kaase Racing Engines Jon Kaase is considered one of the best minds in the world of Big Block Fords and has created many parts to help enthusiasts with their 460 based projects. Gentlemen start your questions…
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  #61  
Old 06-04-2011, 10:18 AM
J. Shelfo Sr. J. Shelfo Sr. is offline
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Wayne/Rob,

all the lifters pointing to the centre is correct on a wedge head with a straight tie bar.

With the hemis valve angles , you have to have the intake towards the centre and the exhaust towards the block , and therefore a Z shaped tie bar between.

Lifter oil feeds are drilled to suit. Only with hemis , all the other heads are facing the valley.

Kaase , with the full on 800+ ci racing hemi use a Jessel keyway lifter that has no tie bar, and as such no clearencing. But they are like $2400 a set plus $1000 for the inserts fitted. Was too rich for me at the time , but now if you add up all the machine time , it would have been about the same and getting a much stronger lifter compared to my crowers.

Graham, yeh that would be great if you could drop the cam off at Ians. You can have a look at the block issue in real life. Home phone is 9272 6570.

John
I feel your pain. I went through the same problem with my new aluminum block and z-bar lifters. There is not enough thickness in that area. Ground thru, barely had enough clearance for the tie bar anyway.

I went ahead and opted for Jesel keyway lifters. They are expensive, but will solve the prolem. If you do go to Jesels, be careful to get the centered pushrod configuration, as the pushrod seats are very low in the lifter, and angle out in two differant directions. Also, depending on what diameter pushrods you choose, you may have to use narrow lifter ends to exit the lifter shell without contact.

I hope this helps.
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  #62  
Old 06-04-2011, 04:36 PM
J. Shelfo Sr. J. Shelfo Sr. is offline
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Default Timing

We have run alcohol engines, normally asperated and blown with way more timing than 28*. I think you will see a lot more power and torque with more timing.
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  #63  
Old 06-04-2011, 09:59 PM
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Thanks for those words of advice , it is a little bit of pioneering with this combination over here.

I do agree with the timing. The engine wont start under 15* , and is very unhappy at 25*.

We were inching up on timing when the water issue made us take stock and stop , prior to hurting it. When it did have 28* , it was just starting to get happy. We think the engine is indeed going to like quite a bit of timing , and with that will come handfuls of torque and power.

We will see how much when we fix it and get it back on the dyno.

Spoke to Jon Kaase friday night and he gave me a few clues on welding these blocks , the use of a helium/argon mix and 4043 rods. I knew about the helium mix , but would have stuck with a 5356 rod. We have both , so will do a bit of testing prior to getting into the block itself.

John
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  #64  
Old 06-05-2011, 07:33 PM
J. Shelfo Sr. J. Shelfo Sr. is offline
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You have a great looking project going. If I can be of help, let me know. Good Luck.
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  #65  
Old 11-10-2011, 09:11 PM
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General update for those following.

Well we welded the engine up again, cracks were quite bad.

Clean everything and re-assemble, do a test fire up in the shed on Sunday, and guess what , more water again. The cracks are just propigating from the welds , even with good preheat in the block. So , pull the entire thing apart, clean it and start again.

This time Ian has run over the entire surface from deck to lifter bores the entire length of the block. Spitting and carrying on when the weld puddle went over thin spots, cracks, porosity, casting impurities etc etc , but we are now sure that there are no thin spots or porous spots. Back on the mill again this weekend to clearence again for the lifters, the lifter bores need a hone as they have tighten up with the welding, and will pressure test before assembly again. A whole day, bottle of gas and 1/2 box welding rods , the bl$%dy thing better not leak this time otherewise I am going to fill the f#$%ing thing and run water in the heads only.

All good fun, not!! Block looks worse that a 20 year old ex fuel hemi inside it has that many welds on it. Cant see it with the manifold on so only we will know.

Post an update as soon as we get some positive news.

John
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  #66  
Old 11-11-2011, 12:55 AM
res0rli9 res0rli9 is offline
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WOW! I hope it works for you good luck
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  #67  
Old 11-11-2011, 10:29 AM
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I feel your pain. I did not weld repair my aluminum block. I used epoxy, and an aluminum plate on the lifter bore rails to hold the epoxy and provide more hight to support the lifter bushings. I will let you know how it works out.

Having oil in block really inhibits a good weld as oil penetrates into every pore. I would suggest soaking the block in an oil desolving solvent for a long time, then soak in a cleansing solution for an equal time. Steam clean and let dry in the sunlight if possible. If no oil seeps out of the pores in the hot sunlight, you should be good to go. You can also pre-heat in an oven to accomplish the same thing.
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  #68  
Old 11-13-2011, 05:33 PM
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If you look at the picture a couple of posts back, that was the before shot.

Those who feel ill when they see new stuff look old real quick , dont look at the photos below. Should have the lifter bores honed today, then do some clearencing which got us into trouble in the first place, then pressure test.
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  #69  
Old 06-18-2012, 10:29 PM
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Question so how did this work out?

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Originally Posted by WDR460 View Post
If you look at the picture a couple of posts back, that was the before shot.

Those who feel ill when they see new stuff look old real quick , dont look at the photos below. Should have the lifter bores honed today, then do some clearencing which got us into trouble in the first place, then pressure test.
i know its been a while but i have been curious about how you did after the welding?hope it came out good.
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  #70  
Old 06-19-2012, 06:15 AM
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Hi,
My first post

I am the guy that had the pleasure of welding this wonderul block.

The last photos of the welding also leaked after machining. What I realy needed to do was weld the inside of the water jackets to increase the wall thickness.

What I did eventially was to weld some thickness in between the lifter pairs to act as support posts between the deck and lifter area.

Then I cut windows above the lifter pairs where the machining will be, and then welding 5/16" plates from behind . Once the thickness was the same between the posts and filler plates the cracking stopped and the block now holds its water (tested at 120 psi).

The dyno is booked next month. Once a baseling tuneup is established we might give it a warmup cacklefest on some 95% nitro that I have left over. (Just to see what it sounds like).

Ian
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  #71  
Old 07-23-2012, 03:35 AM
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Default Dyno Session No2

Hi All,

Anyway, she went back on the Dyno last week.

We still have an issue with it missing , wether its spark or fuel charge contamination is yet to be seen. Still not making the power I wanted.

Result after many fuel tuning changes, spark gap changes, lash changes, timing changes (32 pulls in total) was 963hp @ 7250rpm and 749lbft @ 5750 rpm.

Mechanically the engine looks fine. Back to the drawing board though!

Regards

John
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  #72  
Old 08-21-2012, 09:58 PM
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Hi All,

Anyway, she went back on the Dyno last week.

We still have an issue with it missing , wether its spark or fuel charge contamination is yet to be seen. Still not making the power I wanted.

Result after many fuel tuning changes, spark gap changes, lash changes, timing changes (32 pulls in total) was 963hp @ 7250rpm and 749lbft @ 5750 rpm.

Mechanically the engine looks fine. Back to the drawing board though!

Regards

John
did you ever determine if your block had core shift or was defective casting?i ask because i have a new block that was clearanced, and i talked with jon kaase machinist about it,and he said he has done many of them with no issues,and it should be approx. .500 inch thick in that area.also i noticed you only had problems with the drivers side.glad to see you kept with it for all the problems.
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  #73  
Old 08-22-2012, 12:37 AM
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Hbstang,

it was core shift that was the problem, as it was only thin on one bank, but good luck on the 0.5 inch as even the thick side of mine is only 1/8th inch.

J Shelfo Snr had similar problems but he went straight to keyway lifters and epoxy filled the thin areas.

Luck of the draw I guess.

I have decided to upgrade the hardware on the heads and go titanium 2.4 intakes, as well as more duration and cam lift. I want the Hp over the 1050 mark even if it is on a conservative dyno.

Regards

John
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