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  #1  
Old 08-21-2011, 02:36 PM
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Default Street Roller Blues

Well I think its happened to me, It looks like I have become a victim of a failed roller lifter!

For those that are not familar with my car/engine. I have a 100% STREET driven 1970 TorinoGT, 572 stroker w solid roller cam.

build thread for those unfamilar...

http://www.460ford.com/forum/showthread.php?t=146808

while driving home from a night out on Woodward, cruising along at aprox 2500 rpm the engine started making an AWFULL clanking noise... I immediately pulled off and shut down and later towed the car home.

Next morning I pulled the rocker covers, nothing obvious, nothing missing, or broken. No parts laying in there. turned the engine over with the bump starter, and it made a very loud metal on metal squeel. So im guessing thats a roller lifter failure.

My question(s) are this... and im looking for any and all opinions please... especially those that may have experience making a roller motor live on the street.

What route should I take?

Replace with the same cam and different lifters or same lifters?

Less cam (with less spring pressure?) although I hate to give up power.

Solid lifter cam? (again, I hate to give up power AND my nice idle)

Any opinion on what type of roller lifters to use? if money is no object, what are the best lifters?

Should I run more idle (which would increase oil pressure at idle)?


Shane
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  #2  
Old 08-21-2011, 03:40 PM
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A solid roller lifter won't last as good as a hydraulic one since with any clearance the rollers are loading then unloading and that eventually shakes them apart. In my opinion flat tappets are the way to go for street use whether solid or juice.
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Old 08-21-2011, 04:01 PM
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Same cam with new lifters will likely end in the same result.

How many miles/run time before they failed?
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Old 08-21-2011, 04:10 PM
rmcomprandy rmcomprandy is online now
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I would get it all apart first to see EXACTLY what happened.

With a 90% street engine, I have had good luck with using hydraulic roller cam lobe profiles with solid roller lifters and also appropriate hydraulic roller valve springs with less pressure.
I like the ISKY Red Zone, "easy-roll" lifters for the street.
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Old 08-21-2011, 04:36 PM
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hopefully u didnt wipe out the cam! I had a speed pro hyd roller fail on a comp cam XFI cam shaft, cam was brand new and so were the lifters... one failed and puked its guts all over the lifter valley and then turned in the bore and dug a groove in the cam lobe. 450$ later I had new GMPP LS7 lifters and new cam.

BUild was a 383 but it left like a a miss when the roller failed at 6200rpms which broke the rocker stud in the process. Build was a SBC stroker 383.
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Old 08-21-2011, 06:27 PM
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Sorry to hear about the breakdown. That really sucks.

I'm just about to put my P51 headed street engine together and reading about this has reconfirmed my decision to go flat tappet. I thought long and hard about it and have had second thoughts more than once. At the end of the day I wanted it to have as much Hp as streetable, but be as maintenance free and bulletproof as possible (I can't afford to be doing this again real soon!). Forgoing a few horses that the roller would make to do it, and a rougher idle, is the price. I'm bolting on a perimeter plate system to make up for those lost horses at the track.

If I did go roller, the Isky Red Zones would have been top of the list.

Hope the teardown goes well and there is less damage than expected.
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Old 08-21-2011, 07:17 PM
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What where the spring pressures?
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Old 08-21-2011, 09:31 PM
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I've went through this twice with a roller. 1st time it ruined the cam 2nd time cam seems ok. Went to a hyd ft and it killed power. It now has a custom solid ft and it "feels" much better but no track data until tuesday. Went 11.5-11.7 with the roller and slowed to 12.1-12.2 with the hyd ft. Hoping the solid will get me back into the 11s. BTW 466 9.7:1 with TFS streets in a 4100lbs 79 F100.
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Old 08-21-2011, 09:40 PM
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[QUOTE=TorinoGT;987156]Well I think its happened to me, It looks like I have become a victim of a failed roller lifter!

For those that are not familar with my car/engine. I have a 100% STREET driven 1970 TorinoGT, 572 stroker w solid roller cam.

build thread for those unfamilar...

http://www.460ford.com/forum/showthread.php?t=146808

while driving home from a night out on Woodward, cruising along at aprox 2500 rpm the engine started making an AWFULL clanking noise... I immediately pulled off and shut down and later towed the car home.

Next morning I pulled the rocker covers, nothing obvious, nothing missing, or broken. No parts laying in there. turned the engine over with the bump starter, and it made a very loud metal on metal squeel. So im guessing thats a roller lifter failure.

My question(s) are this... and im looking for any and all opinions please... especially those that may have experience making a roller motor live on the street.

What route should I take?

Replace with the same cam and different lifters or same lifters?

Less cam (with less spring pressure?) although I hate to give up power.

Solid lifter cam? (again, I hate to give up power AND my nice idle)

Any opinion on what type of roller lifters to use? if money is no object, what are the best lifters?

Should I run more idle (which would increase oil pressure at idle)?


Shane[/QUOT
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Old 08-21-2011, 09:41 PM
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[QUOTE=TorinoGT;987156]Well I think its happened to me, It looks like I have become a victim of a failed roller lifter!

For those that are not familar with my car/engine. I have a 100% STREET driven 1970 TorinoGT, 572 stroker w solid roller cam.

build thread for those unfamilar...

http://www.460ford.com/forum/showthread.php?t=146808

while driving home from a night out on Woodward, cruising along at aprox 2500 rpm the engine started making an AWFULL clanking noise... I immediately pulled off and shut down and later towed the car home.

Next morning I pulled the rocker covers, nothing obvious, nothing missing, or broken. No parts laying in there. turned the engine over with the bump starter, and it made a very loud metal on metal squeel. So im guessing thats a roller lifter failure.

My question(s) are this... and im looking for any and all opinions please... especially those that may have experience making a roller motor live on the street.

What route should I take?

Replace with the same cam and different lifters or same lifters?

Less cam (with less spring pressure?) although I hate to give up power.

Solid lifter cam? (again, I hate to give up power AND my nice idle)

Any opinion on what type of roller lifters to use? if money is no object, what are the best lifters?

Should I run more idle (which would increase oil pressure at idle)?


Shane[/QUOT


HOW OFTEN DO YOU SET YOUR VALVES?
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  #11  
Old 08-21-2011, 10:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rmcomprandy View Post
I would get it all apart first to see EXACTLY what happened.

With a 90% street engine, I have had good luck with using hydraulic roller cam lobe profiles with solid roller lifters and also appropriate hydraulic roller valve springs with less pressure.
I like the ISKY Red Zone, "easy-roll" lifters for the street.
I will absolutely get inside the engine to make a final determination, just trying to get some chatter going to help me decide which way to go.
Using a "hydrauluic roller cam lobe profile/springs" what kind of horsepower, or more importantly torque would you aproximate I would give up on my given combination? are we talking 50 horse/tq? or 10 hp/tq? Obviously my combination isnt on "kill"... but I hate the idea of going backwards too far.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BOSS 429 View Post
HOW OFTEN DO YOU SET YOUR VALVES?
just once at the beginning of cruise season... this im sure wasnt enough, and likely did NOT help the situation.

Quote:
Originally Posted by CarsByCarl View Post
Same cam with new lifters will likely end in the same result.

How many miles/run time before they failed?
im guessing aprox 750 or so miles of cruising...

Quote:
Originally Posted by tfsbbf466 View Post
I've went through this twice with a roller. 1st time it ruined the cam 2nd time cam seems ok. Went to a hyd ft and it killed power. It now has a custom solid ft and it "feels" much better but no track data until tuesday. Went 11.5-11.7 with the roller and slowed to 12.1-12.2 with the hyd ft. Hoping the solid will get me back into the 11s. BTW 466 9.7:1 with TFS streets in a 4100lbs 79 F100.
I deff dont want to go hyd flat tappet... but Im wondering how much power I would loose with a solid lifter, and how poor of an idle I would have to live with.

Quote:
Originally Posted by torino501 View Post
What where the spring pressures?
Not sure, its a custom grind from Lem... he would know the spring pressure.


On a side note. since this engine never spins past 6500rpm, and max HP is made at 6100... could I put the rev limiter at say 6100-6500 and possibly use a lesser spring? or is that not possible?

Shane
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  #12  
Old 08-21-2011, 10:43 PM
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I prefer to use solid roller lobes designed for endurance applications when talking street use. Action at the valve is similar to an aggressive solid flat tappet. Spring pressures are very important.

I would guess a more durable solid cam/lifter combo will cost you about 30 HP/TQ at the peaks.
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  #13  
Old 08-22-2011, 01:45 AM
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I'm like Randy, get it apart first and find out what really happened. This discussion on solid cams and roller lifters may be a bit premature. The "metal on metal squeel" may be from something totally different such as a spun cam bearing.
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Old 08-22-2011, 07:38 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by c.evans View Post
I'm like Randy, get it apart first and find out what really happened. This discussion on solid cams and roller lifters may be a bit premature. The "metal on metal squeel" may be from something totally different such as a spun cam bearing.
Quite possible
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Old 08-22-2011, 07:58 AM
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what lifters are you running?
have you checked tolerences? check them before you pull it apart. and check all of them, even if its all cold.
750miles is nothing for a roller cam, unless you're talking about a wicked cam, which (don't take this the wrong way) does not look like it is.
could be something simple that caused this issue. even one lifter that was just a dud from the factory.
i don't know about the states, bout down here there are plenty of street roller motors in the 270+@50thou range, don't know how this compares to yours though.
either way its a shame, im a massive fan of your combo....
maybe speak to lem and see what input he may have.

also i agree with above, may not be a lifter.
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