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Old 02-14-2012, 01:30 AM
68cougar 68cougar is offline
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Default 460 deck height

this is my first ford build. im looking to rebuild a 460 +.30, bigger cam, better intake nothing outrageous. im looking at pistons and see most of them are for the 10.3 deck height but my 460 is 1973 so i should be 10.310 or the 10.322. so my question is can i have the machine shop deck the block to the 10.3 height or would that be taking off too much.
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Old 02-14-2012, 07:17 AM
429TORQ 429TORQ is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 68cougar View Post
this is my first ford build. im looking to rebuild a 460 +.30, bigger cam, better intake nothing outrageous. im looking at pistons and see most of them are for the 10.3 deck height but my 460 is 1973 so i should be 10.310 or the 10.322. so my question is can i have the machine shop deck the block to the 10.3 height or would that be taking off too much.
Take it down to 10.3", ESPECIALLY if you will be using cast or hyper rebuilder pistons with their miserable compression heights. Otherwise you could be up to 0.040" or more "in the hole".

AND- you should not have any issues with having to cut the intake to make it fit unless you deck the hell out of the heads.

Last edited by 429TORQ; 02-14-2012 at 07:20 AM.
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Old 02-14-2012, 08:32 AM
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IMHO I would buy my pistons and take them to the machine shop for mock up so they can make it the exact height to your rotating assembly.

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Old 02-14-2012, 11:35 AM
68cougar 68cougar is offline
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ok i know you suppose to buy the pistons first anyways to take it for the bore job to get the best fit. now i know alot of people put the piston down .005 in the hole. should i do that or go flush to the top. i am also looking at forged pistons heard of alot problems with the hypers and only want to build this once.
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Old 02-14-2012, 11:41 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 68cougar View Post
ok i know you suppose to buy the pistons first anyways to take it for the bore job to get the best fit. now i know alot of people put the piston down .005 in the hole. should i do that or go flush to the top. i am also looking at forged pistons heard of alot problems with the hypers and only want to build this once.
If you are planning on using a builder piston the compression height will most likely be 1.752" give or take. 1.770 would = a 10.300 stack height for 0 deck at a 10.300 deck. You will have to deck the block another .013" give or take to get close to 0 deck.

Check the compression height on the replacement pistons and mock it up to check for amount of material that need be removed from the deck of the block to arrive at a .005" deck height.


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Old 02-14-2012, 11:45 AM
68cougar 68cougar is offline
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ok thanks mad porter. the pistons i was looking at said they were for 10.3 deck height and a 1.770 comp height, i will also be contacting you when im ready to build it for a cam shaft. thanks for the advice guys
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Old 02-14-2012, 12:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 68cougar View Post
ok i know you suppose to buy the pistons first anyways to take it for the bore job to get the best fit. now i know alot of people put the piston down .005 in the hole. should i do that or go flush to the top. i am also looking at forged pistons heard of alot problems with the hypers and only want to build this once.
i like to leave the piston in the hole around .005. and i think hyper piston r fine for a build there is alot of motor out there running them. would not use them in a boosted or nitrous build unless u keep the boost or nitrous low. i'm running them a have run them for 12 years with good results i do spray nitrous on them at a low hp level under 200hp without problems. im not saying forged isnt better
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Old 02-14-2012, 12:51 PM
68cougar 68cougar is offline
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OK well this is my first motor build I'm doing for myself. I have talked to a couple people that I know that build motors and they have ripped the top of the pistons off. I do have a friend that has been running them for years. I just don't want to have to tear into the motor in a year since its going into a 1968 cougar which will be a tight fit.
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Old 02-14-2012, 01:15 PM
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i like to leave the piston in the hole around .005. and i think hyper piston r fine for a build there is alot of motor out there running them. would not use them in a boosted or nitrous build unless u keep the boost or nitrous low. i'm running them a have run them for 12 years with good results i do spray nitrous on them at a low hp level under 200hp without problems. im not saying forged isnt better
I could be wrong but the common "hyper and nitrous" issue seems to be a KB thing with thier already high top land temperatures and their composition which expands more than other hypers. They will work with small amounts of spray indefinitely, but go lean or hot and you're breaking lands and rings. I agree with you and I'm also saying that this issue seems to be an "end-user" problem to me. Forged is the way to go for sure, but buy a set for me and I'll be glad to run them!! lol
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Old 02-15-2012, 08:01 AM
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I could be wrong but the common "hyper and nitrous" issue seems to be a KB thing with thier already high top land temperatures and their composition which expands more than other hypers. They will work with small amounts of spray indefinitely, but go lean or hot and you're breaking lands and rings. I agree with you and I'm also saying that this issue seems to be an "end-user" problem to me. Forged is the way to go for sure, but buy a set for me and I'll be glad to run them!! lol
I usedi the KB in my build when first built i didnt plan on racing or using spray. then the bug hit and i already had the engine with KB so i freshen it up with rings and bearings. i set the ring gap to KB spec for nitrous which is listed i think alot of user set the rings for n/a engine then push it when using spray. if they break ill buid it with forge but they been working for a long time
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Old 02-15-2012, 10:38 AM
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Originally Posted by 429TORQ View Post
I could be wrong but the common "hyper and nitrous" issue seems to be a KB thing with thier already high top land temperatures and their composition which expands more than other hypers. They will work with small amounts of spray indefinitely, but go lean or hot and you're breaking lands and rings.
It has been my observation that the Keith Black hypers seem to take the most abuse of all the different brand hypereutectic pistons that are run in these performance-built 429/460 engines. Under the exact same build/application circumstances, hypereutectic pistons of brands other than KB have not endured as well.

It is very important to set the ring gap as Keith Black specifies; do that and use them within their means and they should last a long time.

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Old 02-15-2012, 10:44 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 68cougar View Post
this is my first ford build. im looking to rebuild a 460 +.30, bigger cam, better intake nothing outrageous. im looking at pistons and see most of them are for the 10.3 deck height but my 460 is 1973 so i should be 10.310 or the 10.322. so my question is can i have the machine shop deck the block to the 10.3 height or would that be taking off too much.
No, it's not taking off too much for a build as yours and these blocks can even be decked 0.100" (if that's what your build really needs) and remain plenty strong.

If you go deck 10.300" you will have future piston options for years to come. But plan your build first, then buy the parts, then figure out what machining you need after you've collected the parts.

Paul

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Old 02-15-2012, 12:53 PM
68cougar 68cougar is offline
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No, it's not taking off too much for a build as yours and these blocks can even be decked 0.100" (if that's what your build really needs) and remain plenty strong.

If you go deck 10.300" you will have future piston options for years to come. But plan your build first, then buy the parts, then figure out what machining you need after you've collected the parts.

Paul

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I'm in the planning stage right now. Thinking 466 d3 heads mild port and clean up, get of the air bump in the exhaust. Performer intake cam from Mad Porter 600 cfm carb and headers. Want to build it to pull strong till around 5500. I want ot to run strong but still be able to have the wife go out and start it right up and be able to take it anywhere

Last edited by 68cougar; 02-15-2012 at 12:59 PM.
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Old 02-16-2012, 01:22 PM
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68cougar,
I completed my first 466 build recently. I bought my pistons, rings and bearings first. The owner of the auto parts store was also the machinist. I took in my rods, block and crank. Told him I wanted the pistons .010 in the hole and let him figure it out. Got it back, all 8 were right on the money. Also had it align honed and balanced.
Listen to the guys on this forum, they really know their stuff.
Something kinda funny...my wifes first husband was a mechanic and she used to drag race a Studebacker that he sponsored. I told her that I was thinking about hypereutectic pistons. Her remark was "what did you say? hyper what, you are like hell you're getting forged pistons". Naturally I listened to her, got plazma moly rings too.
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Old 02-16-2012, 02:42 PM
68cougar 68cougar is offline
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68cougar,
I completed my first 466 build recently. I bought my pistons, rings and bearings first. The owner of the auto parts store was also the machinist. I took in my rods, block and crank. Told him I wanted the pistons .010 in the hole and let him figure it out. Got it back, all 8 were right on the money. Also had it align honed and balanced.
Listen to the guys on this forum, they really know their stuff.
Something kinda funny...my wifes first husband was a mechanic and she used to drag race a Studebacker that he sponsored. I told her that I was thinking about hypereutectic pistons. Her remark was "what did you say? hyper what, you are like hell you're getting forged pistons". Naturally I listened to her, got plazma moly rings too.
Welcome to the forum.
Now that's an awesome wife. I have been reading alot on here and trying to listen to what everyone has to say. I just want it to be a nice street car and nothing outrageous. I know just having 400hp bbf in my cougar I'm going to have traction problems.
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