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  #1  
Old 09-19-2012, 03:14 AM
Ashburner Ashburner is offline
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Default 600hp build question P-51

Hi guys,

Wintertime is coming up what means my engine will be modified (hopefully)..
My car is a ī69 Mustang with a almost stock 429 cui bbf engine, C-6 transmission, 9" 3.50:1 rear end, etc..
Currently Iīm running stock cast iron heads, Edelbrock Performer Intake, 770 Holley street avenger with vacuum secondary, full MSD Ignition (6AL), headers, electric fuel pump and thatīs it.
What I want to reach until next summer is a 600hp engine (crank) with aluminum heads, good drivable cam (mostly street driven car). Iīve red a lot about P-51 heads and I really like them.

I was in email contact with a Kaase guy, he sent me a whole list of parts. Iīm not sure if I really need all those parts, the problem is I canīt spend 7000 dollars on parts. 5000 dollars is about my maximum. I know thats a personal thing but I hope you can help me to sort out the parts I really need for my build. I would like to change only parts that have to be replaced for 600hp, not the whole engine. Would you recommend to stroke the engine? Can the stock crankshaft, pistons, rods, etc. be used at 600hp?

I hope you can help me with my (budget) issue.

Thanks
Franz
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  #2  
Old 09-19-2012, 11:42 AM
Ashburner Ashburner is offline
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Any low budget solution guys?
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  #3  
Old 09-19-2012, 12:40 PM
BBFRanger BBFRanger is offline
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Forego the p51 heads and work your stock c9 up. I'm making 620hp+ with my c8 heads.

http://www.460ford.com/forum/showthread.php?t=155290
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Old 09-19-2012, 05:58 PM
Ashburner Ashburner is offline
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That's a very nice build!
BUT I also want to switch to aluminium heads because of the weight. The car is too heavy in the front for stock suspension and linkage..
It seems like I would have to set up a two year plan for my engine build.
Maybe you can help me to set up a plan for my engine.
Things I want to do the next TWO years:
-aluminum heads (favorite are p-51's)
-pistons
-rods (h or I beam???)
-switch to roller rockers and lifters
-switch to roller camshaft
-stroker crank (4.3inches)
-victor or trick flow intake???
-pushrods

That would be the main parts.
Well like I wrote earlier I have about 5000 dollars for this year.. What would make most sense to start with in your opinion?
All the parts should be changed in the next two years and I want to drive the car next summer so it has to work in two steps..

Thanks for your help
Franz
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  #5  
Old 09-20-2012, 06:25 AM
BBFRanger BBFRanger is offline
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sounds like a good build to me but IMO your going to be over your 5k budget, esspecially when you add the cost of machining, bearings, rings, misc. you would be close if you left out the 4.3" crank, depending on the quality of other parts you buy.

you could EASILY build a 600hp p51 headed motor using stock crank (i would source out and get a 460 crank for some cheap CI) and SCAT/EAGLE h-beam rods (i got my scats off ebay for under 400 bux shipped).

this site has alot of great and knowledgable engine builders (far better than i) that can give you further advise as to pistons, cam, intake, carb, etc. to help you get to your goals. Carl (carsbycarl), scotty j (themadporter), randy (rmcomprandy), and paul kane (paul kane) just to name a few, are all master engine builders on here.
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RIP Matt (greenbroncoguy) 6-16-86/1-29-12. You will be missed but never forgotten.
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  #6  
Old 09-20-2012, 07:53 AM
Ashburner Ashburner is offline
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Thanks for your response BBFRanger. At least youre answering my questions
Maybe I said it wrong.. I have not more than 5000 Dollars to spend THIS winter, next winter I will have saved money again so I will be able to buy the rest then..
I thought about it the whole night... It drives me crazy I think
Hereīs what I (!!!) think:

Winter 2012 (Step1):
-P-51 heads
-head covers
-roller rockers
-roller lifters
-roller cam
-intake
And keep the rest of the parts (Rods,Pistons,Crank). So I think I will be in my 5000 dollar budget this year.

Winter 2013 (Step2)
-H-beam rods
-diamond pistons
-4.3" Crankshaft

what else do I need? Of course gaskets and stuff like that but thats not a big thing.. let me know if I forgot anything.. Oh yeah, what about the good old mechanical water pump?


What do you think? Would that work? Are the P-51īs working with stock pistons, rods etc. without any damage?


Thanks for your help
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  #7  
Old 09-20-2012, 08:42 AM
bob460 bob460 is offline
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I would go with the SCJ heads, solid cam and lifters, harland sharp roller rockers, probe pistons. You can save some money by using these parts and go without the p-51 heads, diamond pistons, roller cam and lifters.

X2 on having a look on ebay and racing junk...........sometimes you find a great deal, BUT than again sometimes you dont. Good luck.
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Old 09-20-2012, 09:51 AM
BBFRanger BBFRanger is offline
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no, your current pistons will not work with the p51 heads, the valve locations are different, you could get your pistons recut with the new valve reliefs.

dont forget about a new carb in your budget, that little 770 is not going to suffice with what your trying to do.

i would still recommend a 460 crank and some h-beam rods in your "stage 1" build. thats cheap hp/trq and reliability, but will require new pistons. and keep in mind the cost of machine work, it can get expensive.

if you are patient you can keep watch here in the "for sale" section and find some killer deals on engine parts like your roller rockers and roller lifters and save some money over buying new.
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RIP Matt (greenbroncoguy) 6-16-86/1-29-12. You will be missed but never forgotten.
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  #9  
Old 09-20-2012, 10:04 AM
Ashburner Ashburner is offline
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Machining isn't a problem, my brother has a CNC milling machine and we also have a center lathe. So machining is for free
For me it's not that easy to buy parts from one day to another because I'm living in Germany.. Kinda sucks
So I really have to think about my next steps..

Where do I get dimensions or drawings for my stock pistons to make the correct milling work on them?

Thanks
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  #10  
Old 09-20-2012, 11:10 AM
BBFRanger BBFRanger is offline
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I wouldn't reuse the stock cast pistons. They won't be reliable with the build your doing
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  #11  
Old 09-20-2012, 07:40 PM
kevin316 kevin316 is offline
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I just ordered P51's and a cam from Kaase.
$3,575.63, includes shipping, roller rockers but not lifters. Lifters will be another $500 (+/-).

It will be $4100 by the time I'm done.
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  #12  
Old 09-20-2012, 08:47 PM
windsor windsor is offline
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600 hp definitely doesn't need p51, more like a429 or edelbrocks if you want to go aluminum. With that its sometimes good to get bigger heads for future growth.

I've seen everything you would possibly need in the auction block for way cheaper than a set of new heads. Have a look around. http://www.460ford.com/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=41
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  #13  
Old 09-21-2012, 10:27 AM
Ashburner Ashburner is offline
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a set if edelbrock Victor heads isnīt cheaper than a set of Kaases P-51s. So thats not the point for me..
And of course I dont need the P51 for 600hp, but they are at the same price than other heads..

the problem isnīt the price of the heads. itīs what comes additional to the heads

help me guys

Last edited by Ashburner; 09-21-2012 at 10:36 AM.
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  #14  
Old 09-23-2012, 12:23 AM
68xr7cat 68xr7cat is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bob460 View Post
I would go with the SCJ heads, solid cam and lifters, harland sharp roller rockers, probe pistons. You can save some money by using these parts and go without the p-51 heads, diamond pistons, roller cam and lifters.

X2 on having a look on ebay and racing junk...........sometimes you find a great deal, BUT than again sometimes you dont. Good luck.
X2

Bob460 is right on the money!

All you need is a set of FRPP SCJ heads, solid flat tappet cam, Crane gold (or one the clones) roller rockers, probe pistons, a scat cast 4.3" crank, and some 6.8" 4340 rods. If you are looking for max HP get a Victor intake and a 1050 Dominator, if more street then a Torker II with the top of the port matched to the head (this is worth some power) and a 950 holley. Think you would like the Torker II and 950.

If you want you can do a bowl blend on the heads and put about a 30 degree backcut on the intake valves. Other than that and just verifying everything is to spec the heads should be good to go.
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  #15  
Old 09-23-2012, 10:34 AM
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I am a firm believer in only spending the money once and doing it right the first time.

I would build the short block you want with good pistons, rods and crank first. You can get pistons that have both sets of valve notches. Beef up your drivetrain with good axles, u-joints, good converter and trans mods this year and then add the good heads next year.

The good short block will run with the heads you have. The old short block will be badly stressed if you try to run it with the good heads.

jmho.

dkp
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