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Old 09-23-2013, 02:44 AM
torinoman torinoman is offline
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Default 600-650 reliable efficient hp??

I was planning on a 545 inch stroker and shooting for the moon for power and dropping it in a street driven Torino. However, I just had a moment of clarity and realized what overkill that is for what I would really wanna do with the car. What I really want is something that can provide factory levels of reliability and efficiency while making around 550RWHP through a t56 and a 9inch.

My end goal is a car I can drive cross country with only a lash check and an oil change while doing close to 20mpg.

I know I'm asking a lot but with the right heads, right cam and minimal cubes I think I can get damn close.

TL,DR; Think Z06 Corvette powered by a BBF
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Old 09-23-2013, 03:11 AM
2slow 2slow is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by torinoman View Post
I was planning on a 545 inch stroker and shooting for the moon for power and dropping it in a street driven Torino. However, I just had a moment of clarity and realized what overkill that is for what I would really wanna do with the car. What I really want is something that can provide factory levels of reliability and efficiency while making around 550RWHP through a t56 and a 9inch.

My end goal is a car I can drive cross country with only a lash check and an oil change while doing close to 20mpg.

I know I'm asking a lot but with the right heads, right cam and minimal cubes I think I can get damn close.

TL,DR; Think Z06 Corvette powered by a BBF
get a turbo Mod engine

Forgot . Have to ask. how many BBF 429/460's you know of that get 20 mpg? An adjustment in your wants is called for if a a BBF is a must . BTW , there are Mod engines out there that can do your wants.

Last edited by 2slow; 09-23-2013 at 03:34 AM.
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Old 09-23-2013, 04:10 AM
torinoman torinoman is offline
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A Z06 Corvette does well over 20mpg with 427ci. I don't think its unreasonable to ask IF and HOW a small inch high efficiency BBF can achieve similar numbers. Nor do I think its unreasonable to try to build a BBF for efficiency with optimal power instead of just stroking and adding a giant cam.

I know 20mpg and 600hp is a lot to ask for but so is 1000hp with P51 heads and a factory block but people still push the envelope. So don't tell me get a mod motor and turbo, that's counter productive. When people ask for easy way to 800hp do you tell them to find a Teksid block, 4v heads and 20lbs of boost?



Btw I rather do a LSx swap than cut my car up for a mod motor.... Not opposed to going back to a Cleveland though
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now- 460 w/roller cam
one day w/t56
anyone wanna donate to my cause?

Last edited by torinoman; 09-23-2013 at 04:21 AM.
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Old 09-23-2013, 05:48 AM
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Originally Posted by torinoman View Post
A Z06 Corvette does well over 20mpg with 427ci. I don't think its unreasonable to ask IF and HOW a small inch high efficiency BBF can achieve similar numbers. Nor do I think its unreasonable to try to build a BBF for efficiency with optimal power instead of just stroking and adding a giant cam.

I know 20mpg and 600hp is a lot to ask for but so is 1000hp with P51 heads and a factory block but people still push the envelope. So don't tell me get a mod motor and turbo, that's counter productive. When people ask for easy way to 800hp do you tell them to find a Teksid block, 4v heads and 20lbs of boost?



Btw I rather do a LSx swap than cut my car up for a mod motor.... Not opposed to going back to a Cleveland though
you said a lot but didnt answer How many BBF 429/460's you know of that get 20 mpg..

to answer your question about what I'd tell for 800hp, ONLY when they want 20 mpg
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Old 09-23-2013, 07:00 AM
Imtruckinup Imtruckinup is offline
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http://www.460ford.com/forum/showthread.php?t=167522


Maybe little bit smaller carb..VAC secondary of course... and a hydrogen kit.....I know of 1 selling some kits on here

http://www.460ford.com/forum/showthread.php?t=158897
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Old 09-23-2013, 08:09 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by torinoman View Post
A Z06 Corvette does well over 20mpg with 427ci. I don't think its unreasonable to ask IF and HOW a small inch high efficiency BBF can achieve similar numbers. Nor do I think its unreasonable to try to build a BBF for efficiency with optimal power instead of just stroking and adding a giant cam.

I know 20mpg and 600hp is a lot to ask for but so is 1000hp with P51 heads and a factory block but people still push the envelope. So don't tell me get a mod motor and turbo, that's counter productive. When people ask for easy way to 800hp do you tell them to find a Teksid block, 4v heads and 20lbs of boost?



Btw I rather do a LSx swap than cut my car up for a mod motor.... Not opposed to going back to a Cleveland though


I don't think the ZO6 example is appropriate. It has no where near 550 RWHP and GM had to go to extraordinary lengths to achieve the combination of power and economy it did. To get to that power level a supercharger is required. A Torino would also be at a major disadvantage in weight and aerodynamics as well.

The cam required to achieve the 550 RWHP N/A goal will most likely not produce the smooth low rpm operating characteristics dictated by the .50 overdrive and hwy mpg goal which the ZO6 achieves with a variety of high tech wizardry.

Of course it would be very interesting to see you try
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Old 09-23-2013, 01:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TommyK View Post
I don't think the ZO6 example is appropriate. It has no where near 550 RWHP and GM had to go to extraordinary lengths to achieve the combination of power and economy it did. To get to that power level a supercharger is required. A Torino would also be at a major disadvantage in weight and aerodynamics as well.

The cam required to achieve the 550 RWHP N/A goal will most likely not produce the smooth low rpm operating characteristics dictated by the .50 overdrive and hwy mpg goal which the ZO6 achieves with a variety of high tech wizardry.

Of course it would be very interesting to see you try
when he gets the carbonfiber body parts and aluminum suspension and engine block like the Z06 , there will be a great weight savings
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Old 09-23-2013, 01:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 2slow View Post
you said a lot but didnt answer How many BBF 429/460's you know of that get 20 mpg..

to answer your question about what I'd tell for 800hp, ONLY when they want 20 mpg
And you answered none of my questions.

Is Torino vs Z06 apples and oranges? Sure! But I think its still a legitimate question to pose. How efficient can these motors get? How streetable reliable and efficient can a well thought out combination be? I don't think its ridiculous to pose these questions.
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Old 09-23-2013, 02:01 PM
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I've done a 600 HP 460 that was reported to get ~18mpg with a manual overdrive trans and a carb.

What you're talking about is probably somewhat close to that assuming a 15% drivetrain loss. Making it a 429 might help with MPG's, a custom solid flat tappet, alum heads, dual plane intake, overdrive manual trans, and you might get close. Fuel injection would definitely help.
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Last edited by CarsByCarl; 09-23-2013 at 02:06 PM.
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Old 09-23-2013, 02:12 PM
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Thanks Carl! I think I remember you posting about that combination before. Can you elaborate on it a little. Heads cam intake carb compression?

And I agree, a 429 could get there and EFI would likely be a piece of that puzzle
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Old 09-23-2013, 03:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by torinoman View Post
Thanks Carl! I think I remember you posting about that combination before. Can you elaborate on it a little. Heads cam intake carb compression?

And I agree, a 429 could get there and EFI would likely be a piece of that puzzle
In that particular combination, we used Edelbrock heads with an Air Gap intake, a hyd flat tappet cam, and fairly aggressive compression. The goal wasn't to make a mileage master by any means, it just happened to do pretty well.
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Old 09-23-2013, 04:33 PM
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To me it seems that to achieve these kinds of goals max compression is a must which means tight quench areas and a carefully selected cam.

As far as heads go, would P51s be too big?
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Old 09-23-2013, 05:33 PM
Imtruckinup Imtruckinup is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by torinoman View Post
To me it seems that to achieve these kinds of goals max compression is a must which means tight quench areas and a carefully selected cam.

As far as heads go, would P51s be too big?
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Old 09-23-2013, 06:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by torinoman View Post
As far as heads go, would P51s be too big?
Edelbrock, TFS, or the new AFR heads are what I'd be looking at.
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Old 09-23-2013, 06:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CarsByCarl View Post
Edelbrock, TFS, or the new AFR heads are what I'd be looking at.
I figured the TFS would be the prime choice but I already have a set of ported P51s....

On a side note, has anyone actually put their hands on the new AFR heads?
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