ProComp BBF flow numbers large valve too... - Page 2 - 460 Ford Forum
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post #16 of 68 (permalink) Old 07-24-2006, 08:31 PM Thread Starter
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Nicely ported exhaust flow numbers with small valve...

The small valve flow rates are almost identical to the 1.75" valve stuff. This i feel is because of the small overall dimensions of the port.

As a recap the flow rates for the as cast vs bowl blended stock seat and radius seat fully ported small valve are as follows for the exhaust.

.100" / 56 / 62 / 57
.200" / 99 / 105 / 113
.300" / 138 / 139 / 145
.400" / 159 / 162 / 178
.500" / 172 / 178 / 210
.600" / 181 / 189 / 224
.700" / 183 / 196 / 230

There appears to be potential for better large valve flow with a larger pocket and larger overall port cross section and volume.



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post #17 of 68 (permalink) Old 07-26-2006, 03:12 PM
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Keep us updated sounding better then expected from those heads. So is the above .600 lift shaping up on intake or just on the exhaust?
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post #18 of 68 (permalink) Old 07-26-2006, 08:49 PM Thread Starter
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I have been contemplating the intake side...

Quote:
Originally Posted by jpierce55
Keep us updated sounding better then expected from those heads. So is the above .600 lift shaping up on intake or just on the exhaust?

...and have some ideas to try. I would like to see the port stable till about 680" lift because invariably folks are going to use these heads past what I feel is their design limits.

All and all not to shabby for the money and antiquated intake port design. It really kind of baffles me as to why the intake port was not updated a bit. It would not have been a big deal to raise the short turn .080".



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post #19 of 68 (permalink) Old 07-29-2006, 12:39 PM
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Another question and I am not even dreaming this but:

Does it seem like these would be good heads for a mild blown/charged engine?. Seems you have good exhaust flow. Might be the best budget charger head?
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post #20 of 68 (permalink) Old 07-29-2006, 01:23 PM Thread Starter
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Quite possibly...

Quote:
Originally Posted by jpierce55
Another question and I am not even dreaming this but:

Does it seem like these would be good heads for a mild blown/charged engine?. Seems you have good exhaust flow. Might be the best budget charger head?

The exhaust can be made bigger and my gut tells me the additional flow will follow. I find it best for me to walk away from R&D when I hit a wall with a project. I almost always find a solution when I revisit the sticking point.

From the lift points .100" thru .500" the ported procomps are actually as good if not a tic better than the TFS streets ported but again after about .565" on the intake side the port gets ugly. The TFS streets have good low and mid lift numbers but as I shoot for flow above .600" lift the lower lift numbers fall off some.

I am getting alot of inquireys about the heads and I do not want folks to think that these are going to be a budget substitute for the TFS streets. I do not believe they will hang with the streets when the combo gets above 550 to 600 hp but this is just an assumption on my part based on my findings in so far. I do feel they will make a really strong street based terror or even better a great truck based high torque head. They are circles better than the D3's on the exhaust side and 5 to 6 cfm better at mid lift than the iron passenger car heads.

Of course we will know more once we have some dyno numbers for comparisons.



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post #21 of 68 (permalink) Old 08-07-2006, 09:02 PM Thread Starter
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Revised large valve flow figures... They are better....

Did some additional R&D on the procomps and have some interesting findings.

The exhaust port is in fact capable of more flow with some additional size added in the right places.

I managed to delay the uglyness that occurs on the intake side until .660" lift with additional short turn work. This does however start to diminish lower lift flow so I feel that this is the stop point.

Revised flow rates are as follows:

.100" / 52 / 84
.200" / 108 / 159
.300" / 159 / 220
.400" / 190 / 270
.500" / 220 / 303
.600" / 237 / 325
.700" / 242 / ..... 331 @ .660"
.800" / 245 /

The average intake flow rates are better than any of the dove iron heads I have available until .600" lift and the exhaust are just as good as the TFS streets till the same lift but with a smaller port cross section.

Seems to me that 650 to 700 HP is about the most I would reasonably expect from these castings N/A. While the intake flow hits a wall the exhaust is far better than any dove iron stuff and this will be an advantage although I can not venture a guestimate as to how much.

Seems fair to say that the std port stuff can be ordered as follows:

Small valve D3's no porting
Small valve D0VE's no porting
Small valve pro comp as cast seat no porting

Small valve D3 iron heads
Small valve D0VE iron heads
Small valve procomps fully ported

Large valve D3
Large valve D0VE
Large valve procomp
TFS steet castings as cast
TFS streets fully ported.

Hope this helps clarify the procoms place in the order of things passenger car port sized.




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post #22 of 68 (permalink) Old 08-08-2006, 12:06 AM
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Hey, Scotty....

Hey, Scotty, you lost me on the pecking order thing. I just worked a graveyard shift and drank 30 beers, so forgive me if it's obvious. 8)


PS: I just witnessed the valve job on my D3 heads that I ported per your specs. And my house just SOLD !!!!! Oh, and I have 8 more beers.

I'M DEBT FREE !!!!

Sorry if this is off topic. :P

Where's my beer and that half inch wrench?

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post #23 of 68 (permalink) Old 08-08-2006, 12:16 AM Thread Starter
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Re: Hey, Scotty....

Quote:
Originally Posted by cletus66
Hey, Scotty, you lost me on the pecking order thing. I just worked a graveyard shift and drank 30 beers, so forgive me if it's obvious. 8)


PS: I just witnessed the valve job on my D3 heads that I ported per your specs. And my house just SOLD !!!!! Oh, and I have 8 more beers.

I'M DEBT FREE !!!!

Sorry if this is off topic. :P
Heads are grouped in three seperate catagories from worst to best.
The TFS come only with large valves hence their inclusion only in the last grouping.



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post #24 of 68 (permalink) Old 08-08-2006, 01:06 AM
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Thanks for the R&D effort and info, Scott. 8)

What really pisses me off about this new casting is that damn intake port. Aside from the intake, the head has some real potential...but unfortunately, the intake port is what it is and so the head delivers far less than what it really could have been, had that intake port been engineered instead of loosely copied and resembling something of yesteryear's port design(s). (That clause about being "loosely copied instead of engineered" is a presumption of mine, but even if I am mistaken, it doesn't make the port any better.)



Also, Scott, look at the photo above...specifically the intake flange/port on the valve train side--insufficient material for an agressive CJ portmatch! Even a D3VE/D0VE has more material in that area to allow for a more gradual transition from the manifold side of the intake flange to the inner passenger car port.

I truly feel this ProComp casting could benefit tremendously from a mold revision in much of the areas of the intake port...it's just killing the potentilal of the head.

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post #25 of 68 (permalink) Old 08-08-2006, 07:02 AM
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One nice thing about that intake flange Paul is that the head is made from aluminum and welding some additional material into that area would be pretty easy. I do wish they would have put at least a little more thought into the casting design.

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post #26 of 68 (permalink) Old 08-08-2006, 07:32 AM
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I get it now Scotty, thanks. ops: :lol:

Where's my beer and that half inch wrench?

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post #27 of 68 (permalink) Old 08-08-2006, 01:51 PM Thread Starter
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I most certainly agree with regard to the intake port...

Quote:
Originally Posted by DaveMcLain
One nice thing about that intake flange Paul is that the head is made from aluminum and welding some additional material into that area would be pretty easy. I do wish they would have put at least a little more thought into the casting design.
As stated elsewhere in this post I dont feel it would have been hard at all to make the intake port much better than it is.

I will use a pair on my truck build and see just how well they compare to my iron stuff.




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post #28 of 68 (permalink) Old 08-28-2006, 10:02 PM
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Bump

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post #29 of 68 (permalink) Old 08-31-2006, 07:51 AM
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Procomp BBF Heads

I read with great interest the thread on this head. I placed a bid on a
pair of these heads being offered on ebay. I was originally going to use
the TFS "Street" 460 heads. My plan is to open up the intake to accept a 2.25" valve, and the exhaust to accept a 1.76" valve.

This is my first experience with Aluminum heads. I have done cast iron
D0VE heads before; the usual bowl work, grinding away the egr bumps,
and unshrouding the intake & exhaust valves and then a 3 angle valve
job. I have never fooled with re-shaping the "short-side" radius, or
modified the "floor" or "roof" of the runners.

After reading about your experiences with the heads, I'm wondering
if it's really worth the effort. I had planned on just opening up the the
TFS heads to accept a 2.25" intake, polish the chambers and that would
be it.

I also had a machinist tell me that 3 angle valve jobs are "old-school"
That he does a "radiused" type of valve job.
But he does mostly SBC & SBF heads. Any thoughts on that ?

Please forgive my "long-winded" post.

Devbravo :?:
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post #30 of 68 (permalink) Old 08-31-2006, 06:19 PM
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Just about everyone has their own idea of what works on a performance valve job.
Generally., (it's really simplifying a very delicate balance), multiple distinct angles of the correct width and angle is what is mostly used on an intake seat and a couple distinct angles with a form of radius bottoming is used on most exhausts.
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