OEM Oil Cooler Delete - Advisable or Not and Why? - 460 Ford Forum
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post #1 of 13 (permalink) Old 07-03-2014, 05:12 PM Thread Starter
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OEM Oil Cooler Delete - Advisable or Not and Why?

Hello All--
New to the site. Great site and great sharing of info!

I just purchased the truck in my sig about 2-3 months ago. It has 59K original miles and is pretty clean. It is completely stock except for a 4WD trans pan I added last month (gained a drain plug with this pan).

I am a fisherman at heart and bought the truck to tinker with and also have a reliable truck capable of towing my pontoon boat to lakes in CA, AZ, and NV. I will also tow a 5th wheel for camping (not towing doubles!).

I have read much about the breaching of the OEM oil coolers/heat exchangers found on the early 90's 460. When they breach, coolant and oil mix and well, you know what happens next

I will be towing a 5th wheel with my truck in some hot areas on So. Cal, AZ, and NV. I want a truck that runs as cool as possible.

My OEM cooler appears to be working fine and has no external leaks and no water mixed with oil. All is good with it so far. IT appears to be a quality built unit with stainless tank and hose tubes. I have been told they are quite expensive on eBay.

I am considering removing the OEM cooler and adding the Ford Racing oil filter adapter. I have read that most install a remote filter that uses hoses. I don't like the idea of added hoses, especially those that carry engine oil. If a mod is done, I believe the Ford Racing oil adapter should be preferred as it uses no hoses.

However, I have the following concerns with removing the OEM cooler.....

1. Is it a good idea to remove the OEM cooler and installing the oil filter adapter......OR.....am I only reading the posts by those who have experienced problems and there are still thousands and thousands of trucks/460s out there with the OEM cooler with NO problems. If Ford engineers designed the engine to have a cooler, why delete it?


2. Does anyone know how much hotter (degrees) the engine runs without the factory cooler?

3. What oil cooler options are available to replace the removed cooler?

4. Has anyone used the Ford Racing adapter and can share pics?

5. Seeing as the Ford Racing cooler can be indexed (rotated), why not use it and avoid all the hose issues associated with remote mount adapters?

6. If keeping the OEM cooler in place and not making any modifications.....How likely is the breach of coolant into the OEM cooler? There has to be thousands out there running the stock set up without issue.

I am seriously considering this mod but don't like losing the cooling capacity provided by the OEM cooler. I will be towing a TT/5er with my truck, in hot weather, and am hesitant about the mod for reasons explained above.

Perhaps, if one were to use 100% synthetic oil, this would make up for the loss of an oil cooler?

Thanks for reading and your thoughts are appreciated!

1992 Ford F-350 XLT, 460, Crew Cab, Long Bed, 2WD.

Last edited by SoCalAngler; 07-03-2014 at 07:17 PM.
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post #2 of 13 (permalink) Old 07-03-2014, 07:36 PM
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Hi and welcome to the forums!

The factory oil coolers are interesting in their layout. I would think that the aforementioned "Breaching" is due to corrosion in the cooling system.

I don't think that the failures are due to it's design just the lack of general maintenance that causes problems.

Synthetic oils and their heat absorption rates from here:
http://grassrootsmotorsports.com/art...beat-the-heat/


"Petroleum oils are not only less efficient at removing heat, they also begin to break down significantly above 275 degrees F. Unfortunately, temperatures at high stress areas within the engine--like cam and follower contact areas, pistons, etc.--can routinely exceed 400 degrees F. Petroleum oils may boil away, or vaporize, a those temperatures, leaving high stress areas without adequate protection."

Good reading here also. http://www.suggsmotorsports.com/syntheticoil.html

The fact that the other oil coolers utilize hoses in their systems does invite some hazards with the possibilities of failure being endless. Chafing/cutting/snagging of the hoses, Or, simply the additives in the oil/heat causing the hoses to chemically break down over time.

I think that Ford wanted to make their standard oil cooler as tough as possible and easily installed at the factory minus the hoses that the older systems used.

I personally don't mind the hoses with the older systems if they are properly routed and the hoses are supported not left loose.

The factory system should stay as you note: "There has to be thousands out there running the stock set up without issue".

1967 Mustang coupe, Mustang II front suspension. W/RV camed, D3VE headed, 460/C6 (soon to be 557 CID w/ported police interceptor heads) out of the box BBC headers(with homemade steel adapters)

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post #3 of 13 (permalink) Old 07-04-2014, 11:03 PM Thread Starter
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Thanks for the rely mp40. My truck only has 59K original miles and was owned by one owner since new. I purchased about 3 months ago.

Original owner took great care of the truck and I don't see any good reason to remove to the oem cooler. I fell victim to reading several posts about the mixing of oil and coolant and the oem cooler being the cause. It concerned me and so I began to seriously think about removing it; jumping on the bandwagon, so to speak.

I agree, failure probably has more to do with maintenance than design. There are thousands of trucks out there with oem coolers and they keep on running. It should be obvious.....there are probably tens of thousands with no issues compared to those with failures.

New o rings and the cooler is going back in!!

1992 Ford F-350 XLT, 460, Crew Cab, Long Bed, 2WD.
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post #4 of 13 (permalink) Old 05-20-2019, 04:11 AM
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Oil Cooler Heat exchanger

You will wish you had deleted that OEM cooler the first time you have to change the little radiator hose that connects to it. And it won't matter if your on the side of the road, or standing in a shop knee deep in tools, its just a bad design. I'm in the process of installing a remote cooler and filter. Yes there are addition hoses, but if you use high quality hose, and crimped fittings, then hose brackets in your plumbing it will be good for along time. I have a 97 F250 with the 7.5. It has 240K on it, and I'm changing out the timing chain & gear set, so its right there, you will never get a better look at it then right now. I personally had to change the little hose in parking lot out of town one day/night in Arizona, and in July. So it left a mark on my memory...LoL
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post #5 of 13 (permalink) Old 05-20-2019, 06:06 PM
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I have the OEM oil cooler on my 95 460/528 class A motorhome. It hasn't failed in 167,000 miles. I suspect most cooler failures are due to poor cooling system maintenance. As far as changing the cooler to water pump hose, no problem. Cut it off, lube the inside of the new hose with a little antifreeze, fold the new hose in half and tap it in place with a hammer handle. You'll need to toss the OEM springy hose clamps and use worm drive clamps.

Richard
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post #6 of 13 (permalink) Old 05-21-2019, 11:32 AM
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OEM oil cooler delete

Hey thanks Richard for your reply. I'm interested in knowing your process for installing the that small elbow hose between the pump and cooler.
When install these is the truck on a lift? or on the ground?
When I had to replace the one on my truck it was on the ground in a parking lot at night, and the big problem for me was having the room to work, and getting the lip of the hose started completely around the cooler & water pump outlets. I did have 2 different hose picks and it was still a bear to accomplish. Others I have talk to have had similar experiences in installing this hose as well. I agree the main culprit to the coolers failing is corrosion. Mine did not have any corrosion, the cooling system has been well maintained.
I'm also looking for someone that has used the Cloyce variable timing gears and chain, in regards to the crank gear settings, and the results.
Thanks again for your reply,
Max

Last edited by maxinaz; 05-21-2019 at 11:35 AM. Reason: Left out a word, It should read "When you installed these"
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post #7 of 13 (permalink) Old 05-21-2019, 11:55 AM
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Cool

Quote:
Originally Posted by maxinaz View Post
Hey thanks Richard for your reply. I'm interested in knowing your process for installing the that small elbow hose between the pump and cooler.
When install these is the truck on a lift? or on the ground?
When I had to replace the one on my truck it was on the ground in a parking lot at night, and the big problem for me was having the room to work, and getting the lip of the hose started completely around the cooler & water pump outlets. I did have 2 different hose picks and it was still a bear to accomplish. Others I have talk to have had similar experiences in installing this hose as well. I agree the main culprit to the coolers failing is corrosion. Mine did not have any corrosion, the cooling system has been well maintained.
I'm also looking for someone that has used the Cloyce variable timing gears and chain, in regards to the crank gear settings, and the results.
Thanks again for your reply,
Max

All OEM timing sets for the EFI were double roller and timing was straight up.

On most 9 key sets you use the straight up position.


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post #8 of 13 (permalink) Old 05-21-2019, 12:46 PM
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Oil cooler delete & Cam Timing gears

Thanks for your reply, I'm aware the factory cam settings are straight up, thank you. I' looking to increase the torque range at 3K to 3,500 RPM.
Ford specs say the 97' 7.5 EFI has 400 ftlbs of torque at 2,200 RPMs. It does not give the TORQUE rating at 3,500 to 4K RPM.
Cloyce claims there advance setting produces more torque at "Low end"
What RPM considered "Low end'? If set in retarded position it produces more "Top end" HP, What RPM is considered "Top end HP" ?
My truck runs 70 mph at 2,250 RPM in OD. and around 3K RPM out of OD.
Truck is stock, E40D trans, stock tires and wheels, 4X4
I'm in the middle of changing out the original timing set, and looking into the options pro or con for making this change.
Again thanks for your input,
Max
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post #9 of 13 (permalink) Old 05-21-2019, 07:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by maxinaz View Post
Hey thanks Richard for your reply. I'm interested in knowing your process for installing the that small elbow hose between the pump and cooler.
When install these is the truck on a lift? or on the ground?
When I had to replace the one on my truck it was on the ground in a parking lot at night, and the big problem for me was having the room to work, and getting the lip of the hose started completely around the cooler & water pump outlets. I did have 2 different hose picks and it was still a bear to accomplish. Others I have talk to have had similar experiences in installing this hose as well. I agree the main culprit to the coolers failing is corrosion. Mine did not have any corrosion, the cooling system has been well maintained.
I'm also looking for someone that has used the Cloyce variable timing gears and chain, in regards to the crank gear settings, and the results.
Thanks again for your reply,
Max
I was laying on the ground under my 33' class A motorhome when I changed the small hose. There is much less room under a dog house than under a hood. I may have removed the AC/PS belt for some room.
Fortunately I had the privilege of working with a very clever senior mechanic when I entered the business. He taught me to fold short hoses in half, slip the lips over the fittings and tap with a hammer handle. Like the by-pass hose on FE and small block engines.

Richard
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post #10 of 13 (permalink) Old 05-21-2019, 08:10 PM
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That's terrific that you knew how to put the hose on. I'm researching the good and bad of using these variable timing gear sets. I called Cloyce, and they were no help in using their timing set on a 460 Ford engine.
I have a call off to Howard Cams to see what I can learn from them. In the past I used their cams and valve train in my AA/FA. As I mentioned before I can't find any info on the torque rating at 3-35K RPM on my 97" 7.5 EFI. Its all stock production truck.
Thanks again for you in put
Max
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post #11 of 13 (permalink) Old 05-22-2019, 02:20 PM
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Stock EFI 460 HP/torque curve.
https://www.google.com/search?q=stoc...VQgyc9bj0vwjM:

Richard
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post #12 of 13 (permalink) Old 05-25-2019, 04:56 PM
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I might be wrong but if you change the timing in a computer controlled engine.....won't the computer "fight" the timing change???
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post #13 of 13 (permalink) Old 05-25-2019, 08:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jeffgfg View Post
I might be wrong but if you change the timing in a computer controlled engine.....won't the computer "fight" the timing change???
On the old speed density EEC-IV, the computer is clueless as to the initial timing setting other than 10. If you bump the timing up to 12, the whole timing curve goes up 2.

Richard
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