AFR 528 vs. A429 514 Real World Results - 460 Ford Forum
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post #1 of 20 (permalink) Old 06-20-2017, 12:07 PM Thread Starter
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AFR 528 vs. A429 514 Real World Results

Thought you guys might be interested this. I ran a new AFR headed 528 this past weekend in the 1/2 mile event here in town. Same 2.75 gears I ran in the mile last year so I could have a good comparison (they give you 1/2 mile speeds when running the mile). Same carb without any jetting changes. Didn't make any changes to the car except the motor.

A429 headed 514:
4.150 stroke
6.800 rods
4.440 bore
11:1 compression
244/252 .608/.633 118LS solid flat tappet
A429's with bowl blending

Best 1/2 mile speed was 127, most runs were 123-124

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

AFR headed 528:
4.300 stroke
6.800 rods
4.420 bore
10.9:1 compression pistons with SCJ valve reliefs
224/234 .538/.562 112LS hyd flat tappet
AFR heads with 270cc intake runners and 75cc chambers

Best 1/2 mile speed was 130, most runs were 126-127

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

The AFR engine was built from an old D3 headed 429 that I built about 20 years ago. Reused block, cam, lifters, timing set, intake, and oil pump/pan. Just installed a new 528 stroker kit, and AFR heads.

For the AFR headed motor to run faster than that old A429 combination with 20 degrees less cam duration and .100 less lift is pretty impressive in my opinion. Bottom end power is vastly improved, but I wasn't able to take advantage of it with the 2.75 open diff. With my trac-loc 3.25's in the car, I expect it to run 135+ pretty consistently. I was crossing the stripe in the 1/2 at ~4500rpm with the 2.75's but did a few shifts at 6000, so I know it'll turn the RPM for it.

Here's a video running against a 69 GTO that had a 400 with a 5-speed and 4:11 gears.


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Last edited by CarsByCarl; 06-20-2017 at 12:10 PM.
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post #2 of 20 (permalink) Old 06-20-2017, 12:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CarsByCarl View Post
Thought you guys might be interested this. I ran a new AFR headed 528 this past weekend in the 1/2 mile event here in town. Same 2.75 gears I ran in the mile last year so I could have a good comparison (they give you 1/2 mile speeds when running the mile). Same carb without any jetting changes. Didn't make any changes to the car except the motor.

A429 headed 514:
4.150 stroke
6.800 rods
4.440 bore
11:1 compression
244/252 .608/.633 118LS solid flat tappet
A429's with bowl blending

Best 1/2 mile speed was 127, most runs were 123-124

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

AFR headed 528:
4.300 stroke
6.800 rods
4.420 bore
10.9:1 compression pistons with SCJ valve reliefs
224/234 .538/.562 112LS hyd flat tappet
AFR heads with 270cc intake runners and 75cc chambers

Best 1/2 mile speed was 130, most runs were 126-127

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

The AFR engine was built from an old D3 headed 429 that I built about 20 years ago. Reused block, cam, lifters, timing set, intake, and oil pump/pan. Just installed a new 528 stroker kit, and AFR heads.

For the AFR headed motor to run faster than that old A429 combination with 20 degrees less cam duration and .100 less lift is pretty impressive in my opinion. Bottom end power is vastly improved, but I wasn't able to take advantage of it with the 2.75 open diff. With my trac-loc 3.25's in the car, I expect it to run 135+ pretty consistently. I was crossing the stripe in the 1/2 at ~4500rpm with the 2.75's but did a few shifts at 6000, so I know it'll turn the RPM for it.

Here's a video running against a 69 GTO that had a 400 with a 5-speed and 4:11 gears.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bdAb...ature=youtu.be



2 diff bore sizes,and 2 diff strokes, how is that info any good?

RICH
CIRCLE (R) 815 712 8738
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post #3 of 20 (permalink) Old 06-20-2017, 12:45 PM
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2 diff bore sizes,and 2 diff strokes, how is that info any good?

AFR headed combo bested the A429 headed combo with 20* less intake duration and less lift. That to me seems pretty damned relevant.

I get your point Rich but am looking at the bigger picture here.



S
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post #4 of 20 (permalink) Old 06-20-2017, 08:12 PM
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Nice work Carl thanks for sharing!

I wonder how much more power there would be in a custom cam?

With 3.55 gears and 3000rpm stall this would be the ultimate street car!!

Afr's are the real deal.

Can't wait for the results in the "all out deal" Lem is doing with the 598ci afr build!!!

Cheers, Bob.
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post #5 of 20 (permalink) Old 06-20-2017, 09:17 PM
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Originally Posted by bob460 View Post
Nice work Carl thanks for sharing!

I wonder how much more power there would be in a custom cam?

With 3.55 gears and 3000rpm stall this would be the ultimate street car!!

Afr's are the real deal.

Can't wait for the results in the "all out deal" Lem is doing with the 598ci afr build!!!

Cheers, Bob.

Not all out but...

11.7 to 1 557 pump gas deal (Forged crank rework of my LTD engine sold to capitalize recently purchased machine shop)
AFR 315's
Dommy 1050 / AFR intake
Custom Comp XM HR 258 / 270 @ .050" .660 net lift 111 lsa

795.7 hp @ 6,100 rpm 2" dyno headers
Over 800 with 2 1/4" dyno headers


I am waiting for those all out results as well.



S
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post #6 of 20 (permalink) Old 06-21-2017, 07:43 PM
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Quote:
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Mad Porter View Post
Not all out but...

11.7 to 1 557 pump gas deal (Forged crank rework of my LTD engine sold to capitalize recently purchased machine shop)
AFR 315's
Dommy 1050 / AFR intake
Custom Comp XM HR 258 / 270 @ .050" .660 net lift 111 lsa

795.7 hp @ 6,100 rpm 2" dyno headers
Over 800 with 2 1/4" dyno headers


I am waiting for those all out results as well.



S
Did you have to Change valve springs with new cam?.......being a bit more aggressive than last cam.

Cheers, Bob
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post #7 of 20 (permalink) Old 06-21-2017, 07:54 PM
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Did you have to Change valve springs with new cam?.......being a bit more aggressive than last cam.

Cheers, Bob



Nope. 175 seat / 460 open. Plenty of spring.

When on the dyno the first time (had to dyno twice as we had to wait for SF to make and overnight a plate) and during the first pull the engine sheared all of the rivets in the absorber plate and hit 6.800, without missing a beat, before throttle pull back.



S

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See our products in the Vendor for sale section
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post #8 of 20 (permalink) Old 06-22-2017, 07:48 AM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bob460 View Post
Nice work Carl thanks for sharing!

I wonder how much more power there would be in a custom cam?

With 3.55 gears and 3000rpm stall this would be the ultimate street car!!

Afr's are the real deal.

Can't wait for the results in the "all out deal" Lem is doing with the 598ci afr build!!!

Cheers, Bob.

There's easily 100-150 HP in a different cam without getting too crazy, and I may explore that in the future. This car is primarily built to run open road races with sustained speeds of 100-168, so there are compromises that have to be made. One of those is the custom low-stall convertor that keeps trans heat in check. Gears are changed easily enough, and I have a pretty good selection at this point, but the suspension is set of for road racing, so it's never going to have the weight transfer for 1/4 mile stuff.

Re-using the cam was more or less for fun. Instead of building a new engine from the ground up, I thought it would be fun to just install a stroker kit and heads, and see how it worked. Frankly, it worked so well, I don't know that I'm to anxious to mess with it in the short term.

There really isn't a whole lot of difference between the two engines. We can talk bore and stroke until we're blue in the face, but at the end of the day it's 15 cubic inches. Half the difference of a 429 and 460, or the same as the difference between stock bore and +.080 overbore. The fact that the 528 makes more power through the entire curve with 20* less duration and ~.100 less lift is a real testament to the potential of the heads, especially considering that the head's real flow advantages are in the .600+ lift range.


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post #9 of 20 (permalink) Old 06-22-2017, 08:04 AM
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not saying the AFR'S are a bad head,I like what I have seen.

Bolt the A429S on the 528 and make a run.

RICH
CIRCLE (R) 815 712 8738
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Dynoed or Test STAND RAN
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post #10 of 20 (permalink) Old 06-22-2017, 08:32 AM Thread Starter
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not saying the AFR'S are a bad head,I like what I have seen.

Bolt the A429S on the 528 and make a run.
I sold the A429s with the 514 they were attached to.



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post #11 of 20 (permalink) Old 06-22-2017, 10:31 PM
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Cool.
Nice to see that increase even with the small cam. In a 528 I'd consider that a mild street cam :P So wow.

On question tho, the A429 engine has a 118LSA?
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post #12 of 20 (permalink) Old 06-23-2017, 06:58 AM Thread Starter
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Cool.
Nice to see that increase even with the small cam. In a 528 I'd consider that a mild street cam :P So wow.

On question tho, the A429 engine has a 118LSA?
Yes, 118, installed 6 degrees advanced. I have a self imposed "vacuum rule" because the car has vacuum assist brakes, and I wanted the engine to pull to 6500+rpm, so that combination of duration and lobe separation is what it took to meet the goals. I also live at high elevation, and that plays a role as well.


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post #13 of 20 (permalink) Old 06-23-2017, 09:46 AM
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Yes, 118, installed 6 degrees advanced. I have a self imposed "vacuum rule" because the car has vacuum assist brakes, and I wanted the engine to pull to 6500+rpm, so that combination of duration and lobe separation is what it took to meet the goals. I also live at high elevation, and that plays a role as well.
.
Wow the exhaust valve is opening way early with a ECL of 124 degrees. That is a torque killer.

I don't understand the need to open up the LSA that much for a self imposed vacuum deal.

I have a 276 degree @0.050" in a 501" BBF and it is very happy with vacuum assist power brakes. I just run the idle at 1300 rpm, no big deal.

No wonder the new build has a ton more low end power.

Love the car by the way! I have followed this build for a long time.
I also like the AFR offering - and the intake looks good too.

Cheers
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post #14 of 20 (permalink) Old 06-23-2017, 10:42 AM Thread Starter
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I don't understand the need to open up the LSA that much for a self imposed vacuum deal.

I have a 276 degree @0.050" in a 501" BBF and it is very happy with vacuum assist power brakes. I just run the idle at 1300 rpm, no big deal.
Because street car. Custom low stall converter (needed for sustained high speed running) pulls idle rpm down to 800 or less in gear, even with a 1400 rpm idle in neutral. I've run with lower vac, popping it into neutral at stoplights, etc. and not only is it no fun, it's kind of dangerous. Both of these engines have about the same idle vac, but the 528 doesn't have anywhere near the same high RPM capability.


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post #15 of 20 (permalink) Old 06-23-2017, 12:51 PM
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THere's a video running against a 69 GTO that had a 400 with a 5-speed and 4:11 gears.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bdAb...ature=youtu.be

Catch ya later, GTO!
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