Comp Cams Magnum Roller tip Rocker failure - 460 Ford Forum
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post #1 of 40 (permalink) Old 07-17-2017, 06:19 PM Thread Starter
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Comp Cams Magnum Roller tip Rocker failure

When I put my Eddelbrock heads on I went with Comp Cams roller tip rockers. The rating for the max pressure was the same as my Eddy's open spring pressure so I thought I'd be okay. My thought was, it is a street engine and the steel body would hold up longer than aluminum. Boy was I wrong. The motor started clattering on start-up some times and running hotter than usual. I pulled the valve covers and was going to readjust the rockers but I decided to pull one for giggles. Glad I did. The ball fulcrum was trashed and you could see where it got prettty hot. The rocker is blue/black around the ball seat on the outside and the inside is pretty chewed up. It even started to cut into a few of the rocker arm studs.
I also noticed that the springs were getting weaker too. It would rev to 6K when I first put it together but now it's floating the valves above 5500. I don't know if the heat weakened the springs? I'm going to pull the engine anyway to do my trans swap to a TKO so I will pull engine apart and inspect but I don't recommend using the Comp Cams roller tip rockers with an aggressive cam...
Now I need new springs, studs, probably seals, gaskets, etc. Wasn't planning on that!
Attached Images
File Type: jpg rocker 1.jpg (94.1 KB, 76 views)
File Type: jpg rocker 2.jpg (91.3 KB, 68 views)
File Type: jpg IMG_1423.jpg (79.6 KB, 64 views)
File Type: jpg IMG_1425.jpg (95.2 KB, 67 views)

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post #2 of 40 (permalink) Old 07-17-2017, 07:41 PM
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lack of oil,and or too loose of lash

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post #3 of 40 (permalink) Old 07-17-2017, 08:38 PM
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^^^^what he said!!

Hows the tip of the valve look?
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post #4 of 40 (permalink) Old 07-17-2017, 09:50 PM Thread Starter
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tips look fine. oil pressure is good 40 psi at idle goes up to 80 psi. Lash was set per instructions. I use Valvoline VR1 oil. I used the Comp Cams assembly lube. Lifters, push rods and everything else look fine with no damage.

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post #5 of 40 (permalink) Old 07-17-2017, 10:00 PM Thread Starter
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the lash did get "loose" as a result of the rocker arms failing. However, as soon as I noticed some noise I pulled the valve covers.
pictures attached show valve tip, push rod and varying degree of rocker arm failure. Only about three of them were real bad, the rest were not far behind but as you can see not quite as bad
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File Type: jpg IMG_1429.jpg (93.4 KB, 60 views)
File Type: jpg IMG_1430.jpg (83.6 KB, 57 views)
File Type: jpg IMG_1431.jpg (94.2 KB, 59 views)

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post #6 of 40 (permalink) Old 07-18-2017, 07:25 AM
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What cam are you using?
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post #7 of 40 (permalink) Old 07-18-2017, 08:19 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TARA-fied View Post
tips look fine. oil pressure is good 40 psi at idle goes up to 80 psi. Lash was set per instructions. I use Valvoline VR1 oil. I used the Comp Cams assembly lube. Lifters, push rods and everything else look fine with no damage.
What was the oil presser hot at idle,and what was the lash set at?

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post #8 of 40 (permalink) Old 07-18-2017, 08:51 AM Thread Starter
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What was the oil presser hot at idle,and what was the lash set at?
Hot idle around 900 rpm it never goes below 30psi. I set the lash to zero plus half a turn. It's a flat tappet cam, 242/257 duration @.050" and .531/515" lift.

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post #9 of 40 (permalink) Old 07-18-2017, 10:06 AM
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Hydraulic cam I am assuming.
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post #10 of 40 (permalink) Old 07-18-2017, 11:17 AM
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That looks like a really nice car. It looks like you invested a bit of time and money in the other parts; why did you cheap out on rocker arms? They are a critical, vital part of a high performance engine.

I cannot say for certain from over here, but it's also conceivable the reduced valve float rpm could be valve train/rocker arm geometry-related, and could have also played a part on the accelerated wear of the ball-trunnion rockers.

Fully rollerized aluminum rocker arms could last you twenty years on the street if you maintain and take care of them. I'm perplexed as to why people think otherwise--do they fear aluminum fatigue? Pistons are aluminum and are subjected to absurdly greater pressures and temperatures--are the aluminum pistons going to fail as well? We better put steel pistons in the engine! How about those aluminum heads? We had better cast in some steel combustion chambers, or at least some steel spark plug thread inserts!

Go buy yourself some quality, aluminum bodied, fully rollerized, brand name rocker arms that better suit the engine build....then optimize the installed geometry...you'll be fine.
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post #11 of 40 (permalink) Old 07-18-2017, 12:08 PM
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While you do you have oil pressure, did you verify that oil is getting to the rocker arms via the pushrods? It is best to have the valve covers off, and a drill hooked up to the oil pump to see if oil is getting to the rocker arms that way. The rocker arms being blued is making it look like there was no oil getting to them.

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post #12 of 40 (permalink) Old 07-18-2017, 02:05 PM Thread Starter
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yes, hydraulic flat tappet cam.

Paul,
Thanks. Yeah I know it's a silly thing but aluminum heads are a pretty big chunk of metal. The Pistons do put things a bit more in perspective. I have Forged aluminum flat top TRW pistons. While they are under tremendous pressure and heat I guess I never looked at the stresses the same way as a rocker. Anyway, I did buy some Lunati Voodoo full roller rockers. I bought new springs, new studs and new push rods. I measured for the push rods when I did the head swap and it looks like the light marks on the valve tips are pretty darn close to center of the valves. I think Geometry should be okay. I did have to adjust the guides to get the rockers all centered and one guide plate I actually had to cut part way, bend and weld back to get the rockers centered.
The Lunati Rocker recommended using new push rods and even though the old ones looked okay I just bought some more of the same I had. Comp cams #7651 . They are 8.680" long.

I will check the oil flow, I am pretty sure I have lots of oil coming into the heads because I have had issues with leaking valve cover gaskets before. I had a crack in one VC and it leaked like you would not believe! Anyway, I will double check it.

Engine is out so I am going to pull pan and look at bearings for any trash and check with plasti-gauge.
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File Type: jpg IMG_1433.jpg (95.0 KB, 34 views)

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post #13 of 40 (permalink) Old 07-18-2017, 03:50 PM
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Cool

While you may have plenty of oil flow from the push-rods, if the stream is hitting the valve cover roof rather than deflected to the rocker ball... well you get the idea.



S

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post #14 of 40 (permalink) Old 07-18-2017, 04:11 PM Thread Starter
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While you may have plenty of oil flow from the push-rods, if the stream is hitting the valve cover roof rather than deflected to the rocker ball... well you get the idea.



S
got it. I will inspect with new rockers when I put it all back together. Can I use a drill like priming the pump while the engine is out? Will that be similar enough to running?

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post #15 of 40 (permalink) Old 07-18-2017, 08:20 PM
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Quote:
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got it. I will inspect with new rockers when I put it all back together. Can I use a drill like priming the pump while the engine is out? Will that be similar enough to running?
Full roller rockers need far less oil than sled fulcrum or ball pivot rockers. Prime until the drill labors and oil the rockers well after cleaning and install.

Especially true on a new build with bearing guard on the crank etc. I do NOT prime until the rockers oil. No sense to me in washing away the assembly lube put there to protect the engine...



S
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