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post #16 of 44 (permalink) Old 05-07-2018, 06:44 PM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by bob460 View Post
What's your budget for this freshen up?

What is the car weight?

What size stall converter?

What rear gears?

Cheers, Bob
is a 84 ford thunderbird 2350 lb with driver, a 5500 converter, 4.56 rear, 1050 dominator.
Im trying to decide in this options:
a)bore to 4.5 and new pistons to make it a 547ci, and new cam
b)porting heads and manifold with a new cam
c)new cam with some work on the pistons and changing to alcohol(righ now im running vp c12)
d)new afr heads and intake.

It would be one of these options plus the freshen up, my budget is around $6k.
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post #17 of 44 (permalink) Old 05-07-2018, 07:41 PM
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is a 84 ford thunderbird 2350 lb with driver, a 5500 converter, 4.56 rear, 1050 dominator.
Im trying to decide in this options:
a)bore to 4.5 and new pistons to make it a 547ci, and new cam
b)porting heads and manifold with a new cam
c)new cam with some work on the pistons and changing to alcohol(righ now im running vp c12)
d)new afr heads and intake.

It would be one of these options plus the freshen up, my budget is around $6k.
Is that right 2350 lb?
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post #18 of 44 (permalink) Old 05-07-2018, 07:50 PM Thread Starter
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that is right, all chrome moly and fiberglass, and is a little shorter than the original.
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post #19 of 44 (permalink) Old 05-07-2018, 08:20 PM
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that is right, all chrome moly and fiberglass, and is a little shorter than the original.
At that weight you should be low 9s. I would sort out this combo out before anything else.

IMO your converter is too loose, needs to be around 4500rpm, your rear gears are too low i would go 3.9........that engine peaks at 5800rpm.

Cheers, Bob
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post #20 of 44 (permalink) Old 05-07-2018, 08:45 PM
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Nobody said SCJ heads aren't decent heads, or that they can't make good power, but....

Valvejobs aren't free
Replacing worn valve-springs, guides, etc. isn't free
Quality port work certainly isn't free
Transporting parts to and from people isn't free

The hassle of coordinating all those efforts, and the time involved is something to consider. I find it unlikely that there's anything to be saved by jumping through all the hoops to make SCJ heads perform, and no matter how much you rub on them, they're not going to perform as well as the AFR's, at least not without a custom manifold, and spending far in excess of what you would by bolting on a better set of heads.

If the OP prefers to jump through all the hoops to get more performance out of his SCJ's, that's fine. I was just presenting an option that faster/easier/better, and probably cheaper.


.

Carl makes several good points here.

In addition (for peak numbers) the best pair of Ported SCJ's are going to be no better than an out of the box pair of P-51's, which are based on a pair of Kaase ported SCJ's with some short turn casting revisions. The out of the box AFR castings are going to best P-51's. It is a fact and in no way disrespects Jon K's contributions to the BBF hobby.

I've already done the dyno comparisons between them all. Guess what folks. Unless a client demands it All aluminum headed BBF engines that come out of BOTH of our shops have AFR heads. Nuff said.

I have a pair of SCJ's on the shelf. 2.250" A-429 intake valves, TFS streets proprietary serdi cutter used for the intake side, bowls sized at 91% with a cutter I designed to cut parallel to the intake centerline for 1" and then radius into the longside. 1 chamber hand blended to flow 380+ intake and 250+ exhaust with pipe. They are collecting dust because I do NOT have time to hand port them. Why bother when out of the box AFR's will best them AND are cost effective as he$#...

Rant over.



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Last edited by The Mad Porter; 05-07-2018 at 08:47 PM.
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post #21 of 44 (permalink) Old 05-07-2018, 09:43 PM
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SCJ used to be the best "bang for the buck"..........................but AFR heads have that title now...!!

Word is Kaase is working on some new heads, what.....i don't know.

Cheers, Bob
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post #22 of 44 (permalink) Old 05-07-2018, 10:56 PM
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How do TFS heads rate in the AFR vs. P-51's debate? I thought trick flow's were the hot ticket?

Mike (rookie 1st time 460 project owner - trying to sponge in BBF info)
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post #23 of 44 (permalink) Old 05-08-2018, 09:36 AM
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How do TFS heads rate in the AFR vs. P-51's debate? I thought trick flow's were the hot ticket?

Mike (rookie 1st time 460 project owner - trying to sponge in BBF info)

Feel free to draw your own conclusions.



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post #24 of 44 (permalink) Old 05-08-2018, 09:48 AM
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Well this is depressing. I have a brand new set of SCJ's sitting on the block and I'm already behind.......
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post #25 of 44 (permalink) Old 05-08-2018, 11:01 AM
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Feel free to draw your own conclusions.



.
Wow that's impressive for AFR! Thanks for the info!

I wonder if the Trick Flow A460 360 heads with BBC oval exhaust ports would have done any better? Either way, AFR looks to be the best bang for the buck.

Mike
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post #26 of 44 (permalink) Old 05-08-2018, 12:21 PM
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Earlier this year I built a big Ford with a new set of P-51's for a customer who mud races and that engine made 918 horsepower and just a little over 800lbs/ft torque. What would it have done with a set of AFR heads?

Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic --Arthur C. Clarke

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post #27 of 44 (permalink) Old 05-08-2018, 12:35 PM
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Earlier this year I built a big Ford with a new set of P-51's for a customer who mud races and that engine made 918 horsepower and just a little over 800lbs/ft torque. What would it have done with a set of AFR heads?
Oakley and Lem have made 1013 at 598" sub 7K if I remember right.

Depends on the specs Dave.


S

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post #28 of 44 (permalink) Old 05-08-2018, 12:36 PM
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Wow that's impressive for AFR! Thanks for the info!

I wonder if the Trick Flow A460 360 heads with BBC oval exhaust ports would have done any better? Either way, AFR looks to be the best bang for the buck.

Mike

The new A and C heads are kind of in their own league.

Myself I compare the AFR stuff with current street style heads.



S

Scotty J. "AKA" The "Mad Porter"
"EMC 2006" 3rd place finisher
Ported BBF iron head specialist & Aluminum heads from all sources.
Custom ground cams
See our products in the Vendor for sale section
Customized crate engines
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post #29 of 44 (permalink) Old 05-08-2018, 02:46 PM
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Originally Posted by Mike34436 View Post
Wow that's impressive for AFR! Thanks for the info!

I wonder if the Trick Flow A460 360 heads with BBC oval exhaust ports would have done any better? Either way, AFR looks to be the best bang for the buck.

Mike
A460 heads really shouldn't be compared to AFR, SCJ, etc. Can't use factory style intakes or headers/manifolds, and they'll likely be down significantly on torque at lower rpms. They're a great race head, but not so much for a street car.


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post #30 of 44 (permalink) Old 05-08-2018, 03:23 PM
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Originally Posted by george1987 View Post
Hi, I have a 521 bbf crate engine, all original with a powerglide in a 84 ford Thunderbird and Im running low 10īs and I want to get lower, around 9.70
I am going to send the engine for a refresh, it has around 200 runs, and they recommend me to change crank, rods and pistons, and maybe even cam and intake to make it a 557 but I think that it would be too expensive.
So I wanted to ask you if you think that it would be enough with a blueprint, porting heads and intake and maybe changing the cam? And do you think it would just as expensive as the first option or a lot cheaper?
The low budget big gains would be just back cut the intake valves and replace the cam. At 200 passes I don't see the valve guides being in trouble.

Next move would be to put flat top pistons in if you are going to run good gas.

You can make a load more power before you would have to port or replace the heads.

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Last edited by Lem Evans; 05-08-2018 at 03:26 PM.
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