help timing a 545 - 460 Ford Forum
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post #1 of 18 (permalink) Old 07-27-2019, 08:57 AM Thread Starter
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help timing a 545

Hi all. OK Most likely I'll need to have a distributor re-curved.
I'm getting bad kick back at 10* static while trying to start it. Idle is at like 900, has a vibration whole motor shakes but that might be the nature of the beast with 11.5:1 CR. it likes to run at like 15 to 20* sound monstrous when reving it. Just concerned with the starting and the high timing.. OH its total is like 39 to 40* at like 3,000 rpm. Now current distributor is a Malory Ultra-lite. no vacuum advance hooked up. Maybe I need to hook it up and see what that does?? OH it has semi solid reading between 10 and 12 lbs of vacuum that's about how it likes it, I can make it go higher but the rpms drop.
Thanks
tim

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post #2 of 18 (permalink) Old 07-27-2019, 04:30 PM
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Really like to hear a little more about your build.
Vibration would point to a bunch of possibilities.
Timing issues could also add to the vibration.
I know most of the big fords love timing but the heavy kick back on start up suggests distributor off or maybe incorrect timing marks on the dampner for your combo/crank or even cam to crank timing out.
Is stroker crank internally or externally balanced?
Any details would be helpful.
Insight would help me to I getting pushed to build a stroker by my son.
So understanding your build would help me with mine in the future.
Thanks Jon
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post #3 of 18 (permalink) Old 07-30-2019, 08:10 AM
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Timing is too high. Should be 32 to 36 at full advance depending on combo. That's why the guy above wants details of the build. Once high RPM timing is set then let the timing fall to where it wants to at idle. If there is more than a 20 degree spread then yes you need to re-curve the distributor. Ideal situation is going to be somewhere in the neighborhood of 16 at idle and 36 at full advance on the high side of things or 12 at idle and 32 full advance on the low side of things.
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post #4 of 18 (permalink) Old 07-30-2019, 08:25 AM
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My Mallory Unilite had 22-24 degrees of mechanical advance as it was delivered from Mallory. If I remember correctly they have two different styles of mechanical advance mechanisms (YH and YM?) so you need to know which one your distributor has when you order a kit to curve it.
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post #5 of 18 (permalink) Old 07-30-2019, 11:08 AM Thread Starter
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GGGEEZZZ Thanks guys: wickettoby1 & away.. I Knew that, As I get older I find myself second guessing my knowledge Darn it.. Tho this is my first monster build.. and I have been pulled away from it so much with family matters as I was building it.
As for the miss its not really a miss I think. it runs and powers (Revs) like a raped ape and sounds monstrous so I'm thinking the Miss is just the sake you see in some monster motors and the nature of this Beast. vacuum is steady 10 # timing does not vary from setting at idle.
I'm going to give it a shake down again today.. getting a Red Top so I have plenty of power to start it, I have a High torque starter it turns it just not enough power from battery to spin it up (borrowed battery from one of my smaller cars).
I'll post up what I get today.. L8R
Thanks
Tim

61 Comet W/200
http://s82.photobucket.com/user/peda...tml?sort=6&o=0
64 International 4dr. truck w/545 stroker
http://s82.photobucket.com/user/peda...tml?sort=6&o=0
76 Plymouth fury, 76 Olds, 84 Ranger and 56 CJ5
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post #6 of 18 (permalink) Old 07-30-2019, 01:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pedal2themetal45 View Post
GGGEEZZZ Thanks guys: wickettoby1 & away.. I Knew that, As I get older I find myself second guessing my knowledge Darn it.. Tho this is my first monster build.. and I have been pulled away from it so much with family matters as I was building it.
As for the miss its not really a miss I think. it runs and powers (Revs) like a raped ape and sounds monstrous so I'm thinking the Miss is just the sake you see in some monster motors and the nature of this Beast. vacuum is steady 10 # timing does not vary from setting at idle.
I'm going to give it a shake down again today.. getting a Red Top so I have plenty of power to start it, I have a High torque starter it turns it just not enough power from battery to spin it up (borrowed battery from one of my smaller cars).
I'll post up what I get today.. L8R
Thanks
Tim

Do not overlook cables. I can't tell you how many client start issues were due to puny parts store cables.

Total timing will depend on cylinder head type and chamber design.

Cylinder heads on your combo?

Cam specs?

Intake?


I can not make recommendations with out the above info.



SJ
used 2b RHP



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post #7 of 18 (permalink) Old 07-30-2019, 04:35 PM Thread Starter
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Yea HI Mad,
Scatt 545 30 over kit, RPM Heads 75cc, RPM intake 850 Holley, RPM cam, I did clean up the ports on the heads (boy were they crap). OH should I hook up the advance? I was running it unplugged when it was just a 466. Mallory uni lite. A6 MSD. block has not been decked or heads/intake.
Thanks
Tim
Attached Images
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File Type: jpg 001.jpg (102.5 KB, 13 views)
File Type: jpg motor 545.jpg (92.2 KB, 16 views)
File Type: jpg HI truck.jpg (95.2 KB, 14 views)

61 Comet W/200
http://s82.photobucket.com/user/peda...tml?sort=6&o=0
64 International 4dr. truck w/545 stroker
http://s82.photobucket.com/user/peda...tml?sort=6&o=0
76 Plymouth fury, 76 Olds, 84 Ranger and 56 CJ5

Last edited by pedal2themetal45; 07-30-2019 at 04:50 PM.
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post #8 of 18 (permalink) Old 07-30-2019, 10:05 PM Thread Starter
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Ok did a little shake down1.. set timing at 36 ish. @ 3T, idle is like 12 ish. warmed it up shut it off let set and restarted kicked on first revalution then spun purity good and started Ok ish.
Now I can hear like lifter noise so I'm going to re-adjust them tomorrow 3rd or 4th time I forget..(is the charm). maybe it well clear up some more?
Quick question is the EOIC
Just as the exhaust is opening or just as it stops opening.
and the intake just as it starts to close or just as it stops closing?
thanks
tim

61 Comet W/200
http://s82.photobucket.com/user/peda...tml?sort=6&o=0
64 International 4dr. truck w/545 stroker
http://s82.photobucket.com/user/peda...tml?sort=6&o=0
76 Plymouth fury, 76 Olds, 84 Ranger and 56 CJ5
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post #9 of 18 (permalink) Old 07-31-2019, 02:29 PM Thread Starter
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OK!!!! Talked to my machinist about adjusting the lifters he told me how to use the marks on the dampener follow firing order TDC set #1 E&I turn 90* set second in firing order #5 E&I and so forth. Now it actually is running worse??? making more noise. The only thing I can think of is I reused the CAM as it was low miles and had NO ridges in it, Tho I'm sure I put the lifters in the same holes I may not have and now wipe the cam.. Vacuum is now all over the place and does not want to run???
GGEEZZ.
Thanks
tim

61 Comet W/200
http://s82.photobucket.com/user/peda...tml?sort=6&o=0
64 International 4dr. truck w/545 stroker
http://s82.photobucket.com/user/peda...tml?sort=6&o=0
76 Plymouth fury, 76 Olds, 84 Ranger and 56 CJ5

Last edited by pedal2themetal45; 07-31-2019 at 02:32 PM.
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post #10 of 18 (permalink) Old 07-31-2019, 05:29 PM Thread Starter
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HI, OK, My machinist came by today and gave a listening to it.. It ran purity bad and knocking. Moved timing to 35*@3,000 and let it idle barely and it was knocking so bad I shut it off. He said what he heard was octain knock.. He also said as i was starting it he could hear it fighting compression so I'm may be more in the 12 to1..
So I'm going to dump all the 92 fuel out and add real fuel.. QUESTION is 110 octane enough to run 12 to 1 motor.
Thanks
Tim

61 Comet W/200
http://s82.photobucket.com/user/peda...tml?sort=6&o=0
64 International 4dr. truck w/545 stroker
http://s82.photobucket.com/user/peda...tml?sort=6&o=0
76 Plymouth fury, 76 Olds, 84 Ranger and 56 CJ5
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post #11 of 18 (permalink) Old 07-31-2019, 08:07 PM
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110 octane will handle 12 to 1 compression ratio but it sounds to me like you definitely are having different issues other than just a timing curve problem or octane alone.
I would back up a few steps and be certain valve train and all your base timing issues are correct cam to crank distributor install everything.
I don't ever think I have had detonation in a no load situation like you are describing without something significantly out of wack. Although I have seen it when something is really hot.

Scott is also right about battery cables cranking a stroker like you have will need significant cable diameter regardless of your batteries abilities.
I have a bunch of diesels from 700 to 1000 horsepower and if you want to leave them dead in the water put a cable that is to small on one and the motor won't even turn over.

In your description you mention heads but you don't say whether your running flat tops or dish and what cc dish . Just a guess but if you have a 4cc eyebrowed flat top 045 head gasket 020 deck height 75 cc chamber and used a 4.5 inch bore head gasket you're likely 12.7 to 1 and with 22 cc dish somewhere in the 10 to 1 range.

You have a lot of time and money in your combo I would hate to see you hurt it.
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post #12 of 18 (permalink) Old 07-31-2019, 10:21 PM Thread Starter
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Hi Jon D, yeah #7 post has a picture of the spec. sheet on the kit. D 38cc dish..
Something that comes to mind the way it is acting is the cam timing.. I am 90% sure I have it right Cam at 6 and crank at 12.. but it has been SOOOO long since it put it together. The way it is running its like the timing is off?? so its that 9% that has me worried.. All seamed to line up while adjusting the rockers.. Rotor was pointing at #1 wire at TDC.
Maybe I do need to check distributor timing again?? will they run 180 out but not good?
To me 180* out somewhere is the only answer??
Thanks
Tim

61 Comet W/200
http://s82.photobucket.com/user/peda...tml?sort=6&o=0
64 International 4dr. truck w/545 stroker
http://s82.photobucket.com/user/peda...tml?sort=6&o=0
76 Plymouth fury, 76 Olds, 84 Ranger and 56 CJ5
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post #13 of 18 (permalink) Old 07-31-2019, 11:38 PM
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Based on your spec sheet info assuming an .045 thick head gasket 020 deck height 4.5 inch head gasket bore your compression ratio should be around 9.6 to 1.
That being said your issue doesn't appear to be octane.
I haven't seen much that would run at all 180 degrees off on the distributor. I have seen them run like you are describing a tooth or two off in one direction or another.
Cam gear mark normally lines up at 6 oclock with crank mark at 12. I've seen some mistake here as well over the years.

I usually set valves on base circle of cam one set at a time.
I don't typically rely on the timing mark method with hydraulic cams... To much to remember.

Basically pick a cylinder to start with rotate motor in direction of rotation with your finger on intake valve when it starts to come up exhaust valve should be ready to adjust. When adjusted continue rotating in proper direction until intake valve goes back down and exhaust valve starts to come up . Then adjust intake. repeat steps for each cylinder.

If you need to refresh the process there are a bunch of examples on you tube.

Double check everything before you keep running it though hate to see you hurt it.

That motor should run really snappy and crisp if all is right.

Good luck
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post #14 of 18 (permalink) Old 08-01-2019, 07:01 AM Thread Starter
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HI Ok I guess its time to pull the front off and eye ball it.. and start checking
Thanks Jon
tim

61 Comet W/200
http://s82.photobucket.com/user/peda...tml?sort=6&o=0
64 International 4dr. truck w/545 stroker
http://s82.photobucket.com/user/peda...tml?sort=6&o=0
76 Plymouth fury, 76 Olds, 84 Ranger and 56 CJ5
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post #15 of 18 (permalink) Old 08-01-2019, 01:02 PM
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Cool

Since this last issue appeared after the valve adjustment try doing it EOIC. Do intake when exhaust is about half open and do exhaust when intake is half to 2/3 closed. Do each cylinder individually.


SJ
used 2b RHP.

Scotty J. "AKA" The "Mad Porter"
"EMC 2006" 3rd place finisher
Ported BBF iron head specialist & Aluminum heads from all sources.
Custom ground cams
See our products in the Vendor for sale section
Customized crate engines
ParklandAutoMachine.com
R-H-P.biz
"Parkland Performance Auto Machine" Formerly RHP
(253)-988-6648
http://www.facebook.com/Ppamllc
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