yet another overheating stroked 460 problem - 460 Ford Forum
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post #1 of 14 (permalink) Old 08-11-2019, 10:39 PM Thread Starter
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yet another overheating stroked 460 problem

hello all I have seen and heard of allot of ford 289,302,351c,429,460,545 engines overheating at idle or within a few miles down the road, in my case I have both but fixed one, I still overheat or get to hot driving down the road to 230/245, before I would get that hot at idle within 15 mins , I did fix that and so everybody know it was intake gaskets, after being a engine tech ase master I built a motor and used tj heads with a scj intake ports with tj gaskets I used fel pro 1231 and fixed the idle problem my bad on that one, I should have remembered the port variances but ehh its fixed now it just does it after a mile or two below are my engine specs currently I have tried 3 different radiators a northern 4 core a be cool 4 core a frostbite down flow installed now, I used a Taurus 16" fan I used two 2500 cfm haydens, now I have two 12 " perma cools at 3500 cfm each,
I have used 170,180,190 stats, I have used the gold and the blue restrictor plates, I have used ani freeze 50/50 and now I am using straight water, I used 16.18. and currently 24 pd cap, I am at a lose of what to do next, I have over 1500 just in failed attemps in cooling system parts I have tore the engine down and checked the head gaskets I scoped the block heads pump I dunno, I am ready to set a small block cheby next to it and scare it straight, I read allot about this issue but no cure oh and I have ran the blower at 12 psi and now 6 I have also had several conversations with allen at badassracecars.com who was a lot of help, I just cant nail this down lets all figure this out and post the fix

460 = clegg stroker kit to 545
fully machined block pressure tested washed magged
heads aluminum pro comps just saving weight there but they work well
comp 112 lobe sep cam set straight up
gear drive
one pice drive rod
9;8;1 bushed pistons
plasma rings
high vol pump
new timing cover
35 gpm pump with a backing plate
billet dizzy locked at 36 degrees
8.8 wires
msd 6al
3 step retard
don Hampton 871 blower
dual throttle body fuel injection fitech afr set at 12:5:1 idle and cruse set rich for blower
engine makes 17 hg
4 fuel pumps
fps headers to 3" exhaust side pipes no baffles

gets hot 230/245 after 2 to 3 miles at 85 degrees out, I stop and it will SLOWLY cool down when I let it idle, I tried adding a pusher fan that seemed to make it worse
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post #2 of 14 (permalink) Old 08-12-2019, 11:29 AM
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Maybe I over read that you covered it but I would be looking collapsing radiator hoses and speed.
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post #3 of 14 (permalink) Old 08-12-2019, 01:05 PM
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Garage
230! 245!!!!

I consider 220 shutdown temp!!!!!!!!!!!

572CI 1978 Mustang Cobra II-Ron's Terminator-Alky Injection
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post #4 of 14 (permalink) Old 08-12-2019, 09:00 PM
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Maybe I missed it, what vehicle is the engine in? I can tell you a 16" Taurus fan usually will not keep a street driven NA BBF cool. Aftermarket fans seldom have the same cooling performance as a comparable sized factory fan, mainly due to a lack of a decent fan shroud. A Lincoln Mark VIII is a better match but that is sometimes borderline and fit can be an issue with a BBF water pump to radiator clearance. Have you pressure tested the cooling system? What AFR numbers are you seeing while cruising/highway speed? What does you timing curve look like? Just trying to help.

www.supermotors.net/22468

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post #5 of 14 (permalink) Old 08-13-2019, 05:00 PM
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Just on the off chance you overlooked the same thing I did, how are you sensing temperature?

I have an electrical gauge that consistently and suddenly pegs at 250 after about 5-10 minutes of runtime.

Checking the radiator, manifold outlet etc etc with a non-contact temperature gauge I couldn't find any temps over about 200.

I finally noticed that after the car runs for a few minutes, the voltmeter drops from 13+ to 11V. At the same instant, the electric temp gauge pegs - so it isn't actually a temp problem, it's a voltage problem!

I'm still chasing the electrical problem. Maybe it's a bad ground. Maybe when the fans come on, the voltage drops. Maybe the alternator is bad. If I can't figure it out, I'll start throwing parts - alternator first.

Hope this helps,

Tom

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post #6 of 14 (permalink) Old 08-13-2019, 06:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FoMoCo View Post
Maybe I over read that you covered it but I would be looking collapsing radiator hoses and speed.
I have had this happen. Bottom hose sucks shut at highway speed with no spring in there and a cooling system that isn't totally full.

Where's my beer and that half inch wrench?

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post #7 of 14 (permalink) Old 08-15-2019, 07:13 PM
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I had this problem with my 429 and after changing out many parts, I finally took an Infrared Thermometer and
took the temp of everything. All my temps were around 145 - 175 and even the upper and lower hoses were not as hot as my gauge read.
Took the temp of the sending unit and found it was apprx 190. Just for the fun of it I bought a new mechanical sending unit and gauge.
put the sending unit into a pot of water on the stove and watched the gauge temp while reading three other thermometers in the water also.
They all read the same temp as the gauge.... Well found out it was the water temp sending unit that was the problem. Installed the new setup
and back down to 180 ish all day long. JMTCW.

1948 thru 1952 Ford F1 with 429 cu in and C6 trans and 3.00 rear end
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post #8 of 14 (permalink) Old 08-16-2019, 10:20 AM Thread Starter
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it is in a 1967 galaxie,

my afr number across the board are 12.8.1 all temps all rpm settings

I only show a 10 degree difference in radiator inlet and out let temp

I have two temp units on it one for a electronic gauge and one for the fuel injection they read the same

replaced temp sending units with the delco

system is topped of before driving and fluids checked

bottom hose is temporarily built out of pvc tube to rule out closing up at highway speed

voltage is good 13.5 all the time

timing is locked at 36 with a three step retard on a 6al box as recommended by don Hampton

update,,,,,,,,,, I spent the last few days speaking with afco/northern/frostbite/griffin/C&r/ and be cool and the general consensus is my frostbite is too thick for the electric fans even though they are rated at 3300 cfm each they half to pull air through a core that is 3 and a 1/4 inches thick air is not making it through the core fast enough and with the btu the motor is making the air is hot enough at the half way point through the radiator it is not cooling the last two 5/8 tubes wich is shown in a laser temp test of only 10 degrees difference in the inlet and outlet of the radiator. I need to go to a double pass 27.5 x 20 core size with 1 inch tubes and a total core thickness 0f 2 and a 1/4 and install a stock flow 180 stat with two 1/8 inch holes @ 90 degrees apart from one another so I went with the following also you will notice on the radiator it is the CHEVY part inlet/outlet on the right I will half to plumb the outlet back over to the left side now afco say this will cool it I did tell them I also picked up a electronic rheostat to control the flow rate of speed of the water pump but afco says I wont need it we shall see the fan shroud is close to the size I need I can rework it to fit correctly unfortunately afco is 10 weeks out on doing any shrouds so the order was placed today I should have everything by this weekend and I will try and get it all put together at the bottom is a you tube link where I tore the motor dowm checking head gaskets and some other thing for everyone's info on orientation of the drivers side head gasket

AFCO Racing 100002 - AFCO Racing Coolant Additives
ADDITIVE, AFCO COOLING 16OZ
AFC-100002

AFCO Racing 80101NDP - AFCO Racing Universal Performance Line Radiators
Radiator, Aluminum, Crossflow, Natural, 27.500 in. Wide, 20.000 in. High, 3.000 in. Thick, Each
AFC-80101NDP

Motorcraft D5PZ8575B - Motorcraft Thermostats
Thermostat, Mechanical, Standard-flow, 180 degrees, Copper/Steel, Ford, Lincoln, Mercury, Each

Summit Racing SUM-380482-SH - Summit Racing® Adjustable Aluminum Fan Shroud Kits
Fan Shroud, Aluminum, Single Fan, 19.000 in. Height, 26.00 in. Width, 2.625 in. Thickness, Each
SUM-380482-SH

Part Subtotal $414.95


https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCQ2...AYn-31xKqG4zNQ
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post #9 of 14 (permalink) Old 08-16-2019, 12:20 PM Thread Starter
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also real quick the new afco radiator is a true dual pass with 1" tubes 2 core and 2 1/4 thick core overall with tank is 3"
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post #10 of 14 (permalink) Old 08-16-2019, 04:16 PM
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In my experience(and not trying to argue), I have never seen a 12" cooling fan able to pull 3300cfm of airflow, especially through a radiator. If you change the radiator and still have cooling issues, you may want to try a dual cooling fan assembly from a '95-'98 Ford Windstar. It would just about fit your radiator core size perfectly, I use one on my Ranchero's 28x17 core aluminum radiator and it keeps my 472 cool even during the summer using A/C here in central Florida. Have you tested many amps does both your cooling fans pull at startup and during use, usually a good barometer of typical cooling fan performance. My WS fans pull 75+ amps at startup and 43 amps continuous with both on. Hope this is helpful.

www.supermotors.net/22468

Yeah, it's a hybrid...It burns gas and tires.

No matter how good she looks somebody, somewhere is tired of her sh#t.
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post #11 of 14 (permalink) Old 08-16-2019, 09:46 PM Thread Starter
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all I can say about those perms cool fans is "ehhh I dunno" I suspect the cfm of "3300" cfm is a free air rating I put them on there at 149.00 each because the "summit tech dept" said there the best they offer but I do how ever have a dual fan setup from the v6 ford escape 28x19 they move in my opinion more than the perma cools and I have a 16" Lincoln mark 8 fan and shroud so my thought is I bought 2 blank shroud kits 1 of them I will set up for the mark 8 fan the other a spare or for any other set up the escape dual fans will fit fairly well to the 27 by 19 shroud but for now whats in there keeps it cool or close to it at 210/213 and hopefully the afco thinner core dual pass set up works this car is scary fast and I would love to get it painted and drive it


no I did not check amp draws, they are on a 30 amp fuse (each) and they are on separate 40 amp relays
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post #12 of 14 (permalink) Old 08-17-2019, 04:48 PM
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Good info! The Mark VIII fan is actually 18" fan and it is one of if not the best single cooling fan available, but the problem is that the newest ones are over 20 years old and they do not make aftermarket motors for the '97 or '98 models(the highest cfm rated Mark VIII fans). Another option is a single cooling fan from a '96 or '87 T-bird/Cougar, uses same 18" fan as Mark VIII but has a different 2-speed motor that is cfm rated just behind the Lincoln when used on high speed. The biggest issue I found with the Ford factory single fans is water pump clearance(BBF applications), whereas the Windstar dual assembly fits rather well. As far as relays, I use a 70 amp relay on each one of my fans and have not had any issues, here's the outside physical differences between the 70 amp on left and standard 30/40 amp on right:


Hope you get it figured out and get some quality time behind the wheel!

www.supermotors.net/22468

Yeah, it's a hybrid...It burns gas and tires.

No matter how good she looks somebody, somewhere is tired of her sh#t.
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post #13 of 14 (permalink) Old 08-18-2019, 07:40 AM
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Update: took the alternator to Advance where they tested it for free. Three times! It tested "FAIL" each time.

I had a new 130 amp alternator in my pile of spare stuff that tested good; put it on and my temperature problems went away! Never went over 205. Voltage stayed at 12.5VDC.

So when the car's voltage dropped to 11VDC, the temp gauge went high. Engine temp was actually just right.

I know this wasn't the original poster's problem, but maybe it'll help someone else.

Wells's law of engine size: If it matters what gear it's in, the engine's too small.
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post #14 of 14 (permalink) Old 08-18-2019, 08:50 PM Thread Starter
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hey any help is welcomed and appreciated, there is quite a bit of cooling issues out there and hopefully people will find this thread I believe it will be very helpful I also did alternator changes unfortunately it didn't help in my case I should receive all my new parts from the brown Santa on Monday and I will get it all in this coming week and give my results
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