Very clever fuel system upgrade - 460 Ford Forum
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post #1 of 18 (permalink) Old 09-20-2019, 10:40 PM Thread Starter
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Very clever fuel system upgrade

I just found this system while searching out all the different fuel systems out there, see link below. It is from Fitech and to my way of thinking it is really clever, has anyone seen it or tried it on their car? I like that it uses the existing mecanical fuel pump as the "lift" pump so to speak then bumps the pressure up to 58lbs constant which is what allot of the TBI systems need....interesting

https://fitechefi.com/products/force-fuel-system/

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post #2 of 18 (permalink) Old 09-20-2019, 11:45 PM
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The logic is flawed if the delivery of volume is cut.



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post #3 of 18 (permalink) Old 09-21-2019, 09:08 AM
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I think this pump should work OK as long as there is sufficient volume from the mechanical pump as stated earlier.Be just like filling a carb on a traditional setup.If there is enough volume for the carb and power level you want,should work for EFI.One drawback I can see is the possibility of vapor lock on the suction side of the mechanical pump.This problem could possibly be solved with a low pressure electric at the tank but that would mean more plumbing,wiring,etc.
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post #4 of 18 (permalink) Old 09-21-2019, 09:36 AM
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I think its bunk on a mechanical pump. how can it pull enough fuel out of a 2' piece of fuel line to run 50+lbs for very long and 400+$$$ Na just put the proper inline pump and drop your mechanical. Wouldn't that kind of suck on the mechanical pump brake the diaphragm?
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post #5 of 18 (permalink) Old 09-21-2019, 10:11 AM Thread Starter
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I don't know, the unit has a 340 lph pump inside a half gallon resevoir and is internally regulated, if fed by say a 130 gph mechanical the resevoir would act similar to a fuel bowl on a carb only much bigger, at starter rpm my mechanical pump puts out allot of fuel and I suspect it could easily keep the half gallon resevoir full under load....I can't find any real world tests on it anywhere seems it was just introduced....

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post #6 of 18 (permalink) Old 09-21-2019, 11:15 AM
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The only place I can see it being useful is if you have a second, rear, tank where the pressure is dropping low due to the fuelline distance and do not want to replace the tank pump. In that case it would be acting as a lift pump.

For almost the same price you could get an A1000.

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post #7 of 18 (permalink) Old 09-23-2019, 07:25 AM
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The more I look at this,the more I like it.With a decent mechanical pump,it seems like it would be real hard to run out of gas with the 1/2 gallon rez.The high pressure pump will be operating with the mechanical basically in free flow into the reservoir.Might be some issues with something like a Bonneville blast,wot mile run,or a long mud pull but I doubt it.$400 and change is a lot of cash but what isn't?
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post #8 of 18 (permalink) Old 09-23-2019, 04:36 PM
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I think the system is designed for ease of use when integrating into an old car's existing fuel system. Not the best approach for fuel delivery, but a clever solution for those who already spent a bunch on a low pressure system and don't want the hassle of doing it right/again.
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post #9 of 18 (permalink) Old 09-23-2019, 10:57 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thermod View Post
The more I look at this,the more I like it.With a decent mechanical pump,it seems like it would be real hard to run out of gas with the 1/2 gallon rez.The high pressure pump will be operating with the mechanical basically in free flow into the reservoir.Might be some issues with something like a Bonneville blast,wot mile run,or a long mud pull but I doubt it.$400 and change is a lot of cash but what isn't?

Agreed, same happened with me, at first I was really skeptical, and, the more I look at it the more I like it. Couple of things that bother me about it are it's size and where to mount it though in the Lincoln since I've gotten rid of the vacuume lines for the headlight doors and going electric with them I could put it where the vacuume accumulator tank is behind the passenger headlight....then I wonder what would happen if I hit something, does it become a real fire hazard?

I really like the Aeromotive stealth 340 kit but with the seam my tank has I'm almost certain it won't work though I'm looking into it, as to cost of it though I would be into it for $1356 and change with the extension kit and fittings I would have to use, not including hose....couple of the other systems with external pump, filters, fittings and hose come in around $11-1200....it all seems to be allot of cash

The Fitech in comparison with hose might come in around $550-600 +/- I'm willing to spend it for the Aeromotive if I have to but the Fitech is interesting, would like to see some real world tests done with it.

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post #10 of 18 (permalink) Old 09-24-2019, 08:56 AM
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Apparently makes the stock pump act like a lift pump in a diesel. If going EFI, IMHO you should engineer the system front to back to run it properly.

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post #11 of 18 (permalink) Old 09-26-2019, 10:45 PM
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well I don't know much of that particular unit I am running the hyper fuel from fitech and the dual power adder 1200 hp system the hyper fuel is very similar to that one and I run 1 7 psi electric pump at my fuel cell to a series of 30 and 10 micron billet filters the to the hyper fuel, the electric pump does in fact keep the reservoir full in the hyper fuel where there are 2 340 pumps it does work and delivers between 40 and 60 psi at the throttle bodies .wait for it......but you MUST rum two 60 amp relays on the hyper fuel to keep your signal wire from the ecu and the wires at the pump from getting hot, I see that unit only uses on positive 12/ so use 1 60 amp relay there instruction have issues and the power requirements are off sooo now go to fitech forum read up on fitech if I had it to do over I would go with holly sniper systems but that's the only problem I had with my fitech self contained unit also 10 gauge wire on + and - a MUST
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post #12 of 18 (permalink) Old 09-27-2019, 05:38 PM
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Unless I was going vintage original, the mechanical f/ pump (along with points ignition, 20lb starter, 40A alternator, carb etc.) would go to ebay.

Not sure where I would care to hang a 1/2 gal reservoir ...maybe in the trunk... IDK

I've run: Holley's efi (950 commander) - not easy to program
2 - EZ efi's - great, unless you boost
And, FiTech's - which work
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post #13 of 18 (permalink) Old 09-27-2019, 07:52 PM
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Nothing outwardly wrong with that system design, and is a standard air-separating surge tank with internal high-pressure pump and regulator, fed by either an in-tank or inline low-pressure pump (electric or mechanical). Surge tanks have been very common in EFI systems for over 40 years, and stock in millions of cars and trucks. They can be designed with fuel return from the fuel rails to the surge tank or returnless. We designed a couple very similar setups years ago, but dropped the commercial plan after the patent office said there were conflicts. There are in-fact many similar systems in OEM vehicles, so it wasn't worth fighting the legal battles.

We do however make them for our own use, and they do work very well. The flow of a mechanical pump at nearly zero pressure is high, and there is no tiny needle and seat to restrict flow. It's easy to pump directly into a container to measure free-flow (just like the service manual shows), so test yours if you're concerned. A pump is a pump, and just needs to meet flow requirements. Note that the low-pressure pump flow only needs to be the average flow your engine requires over time, as the surge tank will make-up for high-power consumption shortage when necessary. That's one of the points, and allows stock or undersized fuel systems to properly feed much higher power on-demand.

Another purpose is to feed the HP pump with bubble-free fuel, even if the main tank pickup is sucking air (typically from sloshing low fuel), until the reservoir (surge tank) is empty. In carburetors, air separation is the function of the fuel bowls. This allows fuel to be used from an un-baffled or un-sumped main tank to nearly the last drop without lean-outs or stalling.

The size of that unit is rather large for most applications. I have not tested that unit (and have no need), but at 500hp, 1/2 gallon will feed at full power for about 45 seconds with no fuel feed from the main tank. That makes it capable by math of over 800hp for 30 seconds and with that pump's flow. That's big for street. We generally size ours for 15-20 seconds at full power for street and strip and most track applications, again noting the average consumption and max time without main tank fuel feed. Impact danger is no greater than other systems, with most EFI setups using impact/rollover electrical cutoff switches to stop fuel flow immediately, even if the engine is still running. Hope that helps.

David
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post #14 of 18 (permalink) Old 09-27-2019, 08:45 PM Thread Starter
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Very helpful, thanks David.

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post #15 of 18 (permalink) Old 09-30-2019, 04:23 PM
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I think a good use for these is for an EFI conversion when converting your existing tank/delivery setup is troublesome, for whatever reason.

If buying a fuel tank for an EFI conversion is possible (or conversion is possible), that is usually a better choice. I might use this in a truck project I'm working on so I don't have to deal with the dual tank setup and return lines.

Since the pump is "in" this surge tank, it is also quieter. I ran an external pump when I converted my 2nd gen firebird, and it is annoyingly loud.
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