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post #1 of 6 (permalink) Old 10-06-2019, 09:58 AM Thread Starter
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Building my first 460

Howdy everyone! I'm new here and this is my first post. Here's the deal. The 460 in my '77 F150 has been hinting for awhile that it's getting tired, and finally it has lost enough compression to have blowby strong enough to make a steam locomotive jealous of it's smoke. So now the new build is on.

The goal is to make this a motor that can produce enough power to easily pull a loaded car trailer (possibly with the AC on). It has to be Street able and run pump gas (87-89 octane). It will be carburetor powered without a doubt as I have no interest in fuel injection. MPG isnt really that important, because we all know that either way, it only gets 10-12 mpg at best. Also one more thing, the truck is pretty much daily driven.

I have brand new rebuilt D3 heads that have been milled .020. new valves, 3 angle valve job, seats, guides, etc. No port work has been done. Stock springs in them, but willing to change them out if needed. Stock valve train and rocker ratio. I'd like to stick with regular hydraulic lifters and regular rockers to keep costs down.

My block is a D7 casting I believe. It's been awhile since I looked, but my truck is a '77. Currently stock bore and stroke. Stock dished pistons and compression ratio. Plan is to have the block line bored .030" over, new pistons (with the dish to keep compression down to 8-8.5:1) and of course new rings and bearings. I plan to reuse the rods, but have them cleaned up and checked out. I also plan to have the entire rotating assembly balanced as well, just to be sure it's all good.

My current intake is a D3 casting 4bbl manifold that's meant for a spreadbore carb and an EGR. I hope to find a D2 or older intake, as it's made for a squarebore carb.

The big part of the equation is the cam. I had the stock one in it originally. It was a dog, even when times straight up. Never really had much power at the bottom end, but it had a decent mid range. A few years back 8 swapped in the K3500 camshaft from Summit racing. It advertised bigger lift, but similar characteristics to the stock cam. Safe to say I've never been very impressed with it. My vacuum has been lower (15" with no leaks vs 21" with no leaks), it's been gutless throughout the entire rpm range, etc. I forget the exact specs of it.

My carburetor is the Summit racing version of a Holley 4160. 750cfm, vacuum secondaries and it's a square bore.

So really I'm looking for advice from those that have built these motors for daily driver service trucks. What cam did you use? What's your horsepower and torque? Would you change anything about your build?

I've read the several guides and recipes for making decent hp/tq from these engines but wanted insight from the pros as to the all out best way to build a bullet proof street engine for this truck. The truck is NOT a drag truck or really even meant to be crazy fast. It's my daily driver and tow rig that sees a good amount of highway and stop and go traffic. Occasionally I wouldn't mind being able to stomp on it and surprise the fart can cars at the red lights.

I've got 3.23 gears in the rear end and 31" tires on her currently. Still running the stock C6 trans too if that makes a difference.

Thanks in advance!
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post #2 of 6 (permalink) Old 10-06-2019, 01:48 PM
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Cool

Welcome...

How was your ignition timing curve set up on the prior engine?

The OEM static c/r in 1977 was less than 8 to 1. Straight up cam timing and a proper ignition advance curve makes a huge difference.

Will you be using headers and dual exhaust?

Some supposed straight up timing sets are not actually straight up. Here is a link to our BBF tech that shows the difference.


Timing-rear-comparison-index




SJ
used 2b RHP



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post #3 of 6 (permalink) Old 10-06-2019, 02:03 PM Thread Starter
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I had recurved and set up my distributor and timing to run a total of 36* timing.

I have 12* of initial combined with 24* centrifugal. Vacuum advance would kick in another 12* and is connected to ported vacuum off the carb.

My timing set was the 3 way cloyes double roller set. It is currently set with the crank sprocket in the center detent, for what cloyes calls "straight up" timing.
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post #4 of 6 (permalink) Old 10-06-2019, 02:09 PM
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Originally Posted by Dave145 View Post
I had recurved and set up my distributor and timing to run a total of 36* timing.

I have 12* of initial combined with 24* centrifugal. Vacuum advance would kick in another 12* and is connected to ported vacuum off the carb.

My timing set was the 3 way cloyes double roller set. It is currently set with the crank sprocket in the center detent, for what cloyes calls "straight up" timing.

Center relative to the 3 choices on the crank gear or center relative to the tooth, dot and keyway in alignment at noon?

I ask this because the symptoms you describe match retarded cam timing or improper ignition curve. As a new poster we know little about your level of expertise so bear with the questions.

Some supposed straight up timing sets actually have the center choice of the 3 marked as straight up when the keyway is offset clockwise retarding the timing.


SJ
used 2b RHP



Scotty J. "AKA" The "Mad Porter"
"EMC 2006" 3rd place finisher
Ported BBF iron head specialist & Aluminum heads from all sources.
Custom ground cams
See our products in the Vendor for sale section
Customized crate engines
ParklandAutoMachine.com
R-H-P.biz
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post #5 of 6 (permalink) Old 10-06-2019, 02:52 PM Thread Starter
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Yes the center keyway, with the dots facing each other at 6:00 on the cam and 12:00 on the crank.

Besides the blowby, I'd agree that the cam does sound and feel retarded. The exhaust doesn't sound right, the truck has always had issues idling, and the cam currently in it only lets the truck have about 15-16" of vacuum.

For grins we ran a compression test. Here are the results.

Cyl. Psi
1. 100 dry 120 wet
2. 90 dry 90 wet
3. 95 dry. 95 wet
4. 90 dry. 95 wet
5. 100 dry 120 wet
6. 105 dry 125 wet
7. 100 dry 120 wet
8. 105 dry 115 wet


No problem with the questions! I've been doing this awhile but there's always lots to learn!
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post #6 of 6 (permalink) Old 10-09-2019, 01:18 AM
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back to basics

For your application, a good high-lift, shorter duration camshaft will give you the torque for towing that you're looking for, without the thumping that you didn't want. Headers and dual exhaust will give you a major increase in HP as well. Remember, 429/460's were built as great breathers to begin with! Don't let your exhaust system put a stranglehold on it. Your gear ratio, with 31" tires is great for gas mileage, but not so much for initially putting that torque to the ground to begin pulling a load. Your larger tires turn that 3.23 into about 2.80-3.00, depending on tthe original tire size. If you want to get good gas mileage, consider changing out the C6 for an AOD unit. C6's eat HP (on average 50-75), and AOD's have a slightly tighter gearing band. If this is too much, consider an aftermarket OD/UD unit that can be installed behind your transmission. These can be set up and wired in to either give you an extra low first gear or an extra high 3rd/4th. There are several units out there to choose from, some more bulletproof than others. I'm sure there's a forum for those somewhere. You might also consider trying out the positions on your new timing chain gears, see what works best for you in your application. Good luck!
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