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Cranks w/o plugs, won't crank with plugs... help!

10K views 43 replies 13 participants last post by  Daniel74 
#1 ·
Hi everyone. I need help and I am no expert mechanic... I neglected our 1984 Motorhome with an E-350 7.5 V8 ford 460 engine. It always ran fine, then I parked it while I finished our home(5 years), starting it a couple of times a year, until one day it wouldn't start again. I have read a lot about what needs to be done in this case. Engine froze so after several applications of Lucas Marvel oil(I think is the name) I slowly turned it by hand until it was free. Replaced all spark plugs and starter(it was dead). Now here is my problem: with the new starter, engine will crank slower than normal WITHOUT the plugs installed. With the plugs installed it won't. You can see the belts attempting to move but it seems like the starter doesn't have enough power or something else is happening. I cleaned ground contacts at the chassis and the battery is not an issue(I am using my truck to jump it, even applying power directly to the starter bypassing everything else. Are starters rated for specific engines depending on size of engine? I purchased mine at advance auto, it looks identical to original except it is not made by Motorcraft.
Your comments will be greatly appreciated.
 
#2 ·
Sounds like your engine might be partially froze up, the starter might not be able to spin the motor. I might try shooting some anti-seize oil into each spark plug hole and letting it set for a day or so and trying again. I'm sure your local auto parts store will be able to suggest a product, another thing is I don't think jumping from your truck might not give you enough juice to spin the motor.
Good luck,
J.
 
#8 ·
so I understand things correctly I want to make certain we understand each other. The engine never ran out of oil, the oil was in the pan but since the cylinders did not get lubricated often because it was sitting for a while, the engine ceased. Will this situation cause what you are describing?
 
#9 ·
Honestly, it just sounds like everything is stiff from sitting, especially since it soft seized. When I got my '79 town car, it had been sitting with the timing cover off for 15 years. If I were you, I wouldn't crank it anymore till doing this:

When I got my town car, I tried cranking it and it made horrific screeching metallic noises. So, I took the oil pan off, cleaned the bugs and sludge out, put it back on, filled the crankcase with diesel, took the dizzy out, and hooked up a corded drill to the oil pump shaft and spun it for several minutes, then turned the motor 90*, rinse and repeat. Once I felt all the dirt was out I changed the diesel out for oil, and repeated the process.

While it may not be necessary for you to take the pan off, or even use diesel, you may want to take the dizzy out and spin the oil pump shaft with a drill to get the fluids moving throughout the motor, and create that oil film barrier to help keep the dry bearings from destroying themselves.
 
#12 · (Edited)
Replaced all spark plugs and starter(it was dead). Now here is my problem: with the new starter, engine will crank slower than normal WITHOUT the plugs installed. With the plugs installed it won't.
(I am using my truck to jump it, even applying power directly to the starter bypassing everything else. Are starters rated for specific engines depending on size of engine? I purchased mine at advance auto, it looks identical to original except it is not made by Motorcraft.
Your comments will be greatly appreciated.
When you have a bad battery and you add jumper cables, some (maybe most) of the power from the Jumpers is going into the bad battery. If the bad battery has shorted cells, you will never get the engine to crank.

Of course when you installed the spark plug you are now fighting the engines compression in addition to the normal drag of the piston rings and rotating parts.

You need to get a new battery. Then you will be able to crank the engine at the proper speed. Even taking the old battery out temporarily hooking up the truck battery (by itself) is a good choice.

BTW, if you did not drain out the old gas, it it bad by now and you will never get the engine started. You can try to start the engine using fresh gas in a 5 gallon can and running your fuel pickup line to that (However by now your carb is probably gummed up so you wil need to clean that too).
 
#15 ·
You need to get a new battery. Then you will be able to crank the engine at the proper speed. Even taking the old battery out temporarily hooking up the truck battery (by itself) is a good choice.

BTW, if you did not drain out the old gas, it it bad by now and you will never get the engine started. You can try to start the engine using fresh gas in a 5 gallon can and running your fuel pickup line to that (However by now your carb is probably gummed up so you wil need to clean that too).
I was going to try that today; thanks for the advice.
I do realize that gas will also be an issue but I need to get the cranking going before I tackle the fuel section...
 
#16 · (Edited)
If you want to do this (I/m not sure its necessary) you would pull out the distributor and spinning the oil pump driveshaft. You can use a 1/4" drive extension with a 5/16" socket taped on the end to spin that with a drill, but you have to cut the female end off of the extension to get it fit in the drill chuck. They also make a "priming tool for a drill" but I had one of those priming tool break the tip off will priming my new engine build (the drill can put too much torque on the shaft) so I suggest you start off real slow with the drill speed, or better yet get a priming tool with a hardened shaft. If your talking about hood clearance, then maybe a 3/8" right angle drill will get in there (you can rent those from HD and such)

https://www.summitracing.com/parts/...MIleP8mfHa5QIVEI3ICh2D5AG3EAQYASABEgLBJ_D_BwE
 
#18 ·
Will the engine crank with the plugs in and Ignition disabled?



SJ
used 2b RHP



:D
 
#23 ·
HI My 3/8 dewalt turned my 545's oil pump fine New up to 40 psi. with no problem don't know about using the right angle adapter, it might cause to much drag to work with a 3/8 drill.
Remember when pulling the dizzy be aware of where the rotor is pointing so it well be close to the proper timing, when you pull it and also when reinstalling the dizzy you may have to turn the pump shaft a little to get it to re-line up the the dizzy.
good luck
tim
 
#25 ·
STOP STOP
Was the dizzy in when you turned it over ??? if it was then the oil pump was already turning.. or should have been.. The dizzy operates the oil pump if it was turning so was the pump.. unless the shaft was broken. Who ever calls it spinning the dizzy does not know what they are talking about.. if you have to spin the oil pump your HAVE to remove the dizzy.. But cranking the motor well turn the dizzy and the oil pump if that is what they mean.
good luck
tim
 
#26 ·
I am glad I just read your post. I was at the point of pulling the distributor, hold down bolt removed(yes I aligned the stator and marked the body to the block) but it seems stuck to the block it will not come out. I left it soaking with lubricant. Does it just drop in the hole? Given that the body is plastic I am afraid of breaking it.

PS: I have never removed the distributor. I was able to turn the engine by hand, and crank a few times for no more than 2 seconds each time. The only reason for doing the oil pump priming is the comments made by several that the bearings will be destroyed if I attempt to start it after sitting for 5 years. Believe me I would rather save me the aggravation, just following the advice of all you guys.
 
#28 ·
At this point I am stuck trying to get the distributor off the engine. With heat(I use heat gun, don't like torches) and lubricant I will get it off. I am not a a hurry.

One last question: which way do you spin the drill once in place? CW or CCW? Is 5 minutes plenty of time?
 
#31 ·
Hi Yes pay attention to who the rotor turns as you pull the distributor. that way you well know where to put the rotor when reinstalling the distributor and to the oil pump.. I think it well move about a 1/2 inch so you well need to set it at that 1/2 inch so when it fully in the rotor well line up with the proper point where you took it out at.. (it is always best to do this at TDC so you are sure its line up to the proper wire in the cap. Also remember two turns of the Crank equal one turn of the distributor.)
good luck
tim
 
#32 ·
I am doing what the shop manual says but sometimes they could be wrong... It says to make a mark on the body of the distributor and the block so the distributor goes back in exactly where is was before, and to mark the rotor where it points on the housing. It also says to avoid turning the engine to avoid having to set TDC.
Still fighting removal of the distributor, I am sure it hasn't been removed in 30 years...Motorhomes do not get used a lot. By the way, no one has commented on whether it drops in the hole or screws into it. Sorry for the stupid questions but I have never pulled one and it makes a big difference as you are trying to remove it.
 
#33 ·
yes it just drops in the hole so it should pull right out but I under stand being stuck after years of no mess with. If you can rotate the distributor it shouldn't be stuck, if it is then something might be wrong inside. Now when you mark the rotor while in the block is fine but REMEMBER when you pull it out because the gear is cut on an angle it well turn when you pull it out about a 1/2 inch. pay attention to where it wines up at when pulled so you can start the rotor it the right spot to be in the right spot when fully installed.
good luck
tim
 
#34 · (Edited)
It is NOT at all unusual for the distributor to be stuck in the block especially when the timing is not regularly checked / adjusted.

Electrolysis between dissimilar metals is partly to blame.

Soak it well and repeatedly with penetrating oil. You can then try rotating the distributor body by carefully prying against the vacuum advance boss. NOT THE dashpot.

In some cases you will damage the distributor. It can not be avoided.


SJ
used 2b RHP



:D
 
#35 ·
I have seen a FEW WATER PUMPS,AND ALT'S FREZZ UP CAUSING THIS SAME PROB,take off all the belts and check,and then try to turn it over.
 
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#37 ·
I think your wasting your time trying to pull the distributor. I know the engine has been sitting for a long time, but there will still be oil in the galleys and on the bearings, and after a couple of seconds cranking the engine more oil will be pumped through the engine.

I would just get some fresh gas, and a good battery and start it up.
 
#38 ·
Hey guys, I'm new to 460/FORD but I've been working ford my whole life, and this same thing happen to me a couple of months ago, and it was the starter. After sitting for about a year, I tried to start my truck and nothing. Freshly charged battery, while jumping it at the same time. Nothing. New starter.......same thing. The motor was free, l could move it by hand, And after trying a few things, and out of ideas, I dug out an old starter from my collection of parts, and it started no problem. I got a bad starter from Advance Auto. Go figure. Anyways I hope this helps.
 
#39 ·
As stated above, replace the BATTERY with a NEW one, clean all cables, drain and fill with new, clean oil, squirt each cylinder with oil, crank over for 30 seconds, stop, wait repeat 3-4 times this will get your oil moving. Put charger on battery, install spark plugs and NEW wires, prime carb with gas and start. I have done this numerous times on field cars and trucks as well as my own long term storage vehicles successfully. Once it starts this thing will smoke like no tomorrow, resist the urge to rev it up, just let it idle and reach operating temp. You will also want to flush the cooling system and run a couple of cans of sea foam in the tank and one in the oil. after you get it started and up to temp, drain the oil and fill with new clean oil and a new filter. 90% of your starting issue is the battery and the cables, good luck .
 
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