Question about trq converters? - 460 Ford Forum
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post #1 of 17 (permalink) Old 07-14-2006, 01:17 PM Thread Starter
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Question about trq converters?

Some one please explain to me the differances between the sizes.

I found a 9" converter that could be built with a 3,000 stall. What would be the differances between a 9" 3,000 stall and a 12" 3,000 stall converter.

What dictates which size converter you use?
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post #2 of 17 (permalink) Old 07-14-2006, 03:46 PM
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The larger converter will likely need more/larger internal clearences & steeper fin angles to make it stall the same required stall speed as a smaller converter.
Because of the larger clearences & steeper fin angles the bigger converter could also be less efficient and have more slipage at the finish line.

The converter companies ask all the questions they do because converter diameter AND workable stall range work together.

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post #3 of 17 (permalink) Old 07-14-2006, 03:53 PM Thread Starter
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So, is there any draw back to using a small converter?

I was told they have something like 7" converters now?
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post #4 of 17 (permalink) Old 07-14-2006, 04:11 PM
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Too small a converter diamater is just as bad as too big.

A 10" converter would probably be a good starting point for building a converter around 3000 stall. Of course many things have to be figured in that will effect the total stall, engine size, cam size, trans-brake, nitrous, car weight, rear gear, etc.

A 10" converter "advertised" as a 3500 stall might not reach 3500 behind a Cleveland, but go past the advertised 3500 stall behind a 514.

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post #5 of 17 (permalink) Old 07-14-2006, 04:31 PM Thread Starter
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How much of a roll does a camshaft play in choice of converters? I could see if you went from one extreme to another but what if you only made minor changes.

I have heard one guy trying to say that the converter company was telling him he need to change cams, because their converter they sent him was correct? Yet he says cam doesn't have nothing to do with it. He got upset and went somewhere else and supposedly got a converter that works right. (I think he was saying it flashed at the wrong rpm and you couldn't ever hear the car shift gears. Even though it was)

That just sounds like miscommunication if camshaft selection plays that big of a roll.
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post #6 of 17 (permalink) Old 07-17-2006, 10:19 AM
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The cam plays a huge roll. The cam set the torque and HP curves for the engine and the converter stall speed is related to where and how those curves are shaped. The converter people guys are somewhat like the rest of us - when you give them all your specs, they still used edumacated guesses about torque and HP based on experience to build the converter. If you send them your dyno sheets - there's no guessing. I think your friend did the right thing - the converter should be made to the car, not the other way around. When a car does like you describe, it's called (mroe or less) "pushing through the converter". The motor makes more torque than the converter can handle. Happens to the laughing gas people a lot.

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post #7 of 17 (permalink) Old 07-17-2006, 12:47 PM
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Here's one for ya........

At the Norwalk FFW race, Erica Ortiz was racing her Pro Thunderbird (472" with twin 88mm turbo's). In qualifying the car went 7.11/199. They rework the tune up in the engine management system and the car goes 7.04/201. Sounds good right? Wrong. It's an absolute pig in low gear and is winding the snot out of the engine in the lights. So....enter Steve Petty. Crewchief for the "Lynch Mob" Outlaw 10.5 car and one of the best turbo guys in the business. By the time I got over to Erica's pit, Steve has her converter apart (it's a Neal Chance bolt together piece) and has everything laid out on two tables. He makes a few changes here and there, adds a washer here, checks a few clearances, tosses something in the trash, checks again, then bolts it together and they install the converter back into the car.

End result: Erica runner ups to David Schorr but runs.......6.88 at 204.

Bottom Line: if a converter company tells you to change the cam....you need to change coverter companies.

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post #8 of 17 (permalink) Old 07-17-2006, 01:16 PM Thread Starter
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Converters seem like they can be hard to tell if you are really getting the max out of your combo.

Is there any tricks to being able to decide if you are working with a good company?
Is there certain questions that must be answered to get the right converter?

Right now I'm only looking for a converter to go in my 4,000-4,500lb truck , stock engine with a cam, intake and headers. That I drag race on Friday nights for fun.

From what people tell me is that I shouldn't worry about converters. Just pick one around a 2500-3000 stall.
Which it is true to say I don't want to spend an arm and a leg on a converter that won't work for me when I do (if I ever) build my wild race engine. Yet, money is money and you want to make the right decision for you money spent.
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post #9 of 17 (permalink) Old 07-17-2006, 04:46 PM
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One thing tht will really help you in figuring out your converter is a data logger. If that is out of the budget, get one of the Autometer dual channel playback tachs. That will tell you exactly what the converter is doing. I had the old single channel playback tach in my old race car & it was a big help. I have a Racepak V300 in my new car & it is a HUUGGGEEE help. The last race, I hurt my converter. I saw the huge rpm drop on the gear change & where the engine rpm jumped up but the drive shaft rpm stayed the same. I sent the runs to Coan to look at & they said it looks like the sprag going bad. Now before , we would have been guessing. Now I have hard data to back it up. Also a dual channel playback would do the same thing. I would definitely recommend buying one of the tachs. It would be money well spent. Hope this helps..

OOPS!! I thought you were trying to figure out an existing set up. My bad.. ops:
post #10 of 17 (permalink) Old 07-18-2006, 03:32 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jones
Is there any tricks to being able to decide if you are working with a good company? Is there certain questions that must be answered to get the right converter?
"Tricks" to finding a good converter company and/or converter:

Step #1....Ask if the name on the converter is "G.E.R."
Step #2....If the answer is "Yes", RUN the other direction!

Their brainless version of a super wiz-bang "spragless" 8" converter in the late 80's-early 90's was nothing more than a conventional 8" converter with it's stator sprag bearing mig welded up solid. The damn things would slip & freewheel the whole pass. They would get so hot the paint would peel off the converter after just a few passes. And their C-6 trans-brakes.....Ugh! what a mess!

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460 race '70 Maverick..........................finished someday.
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post #11 of 17 (permalink) Old 07-18-2006, 07:27 AM
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Has anyone tried an EDGE converter yet? I only have Neal Chance converters I was just looking around and saw them and wondered.




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post #12 of 17 (permalink) Old 07-18-2006, 12:38 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TopSportsman916
One thing tht will really help you in figuring out your converter is a data logger. If that is out of the budget, get one of the Autometer dual channel playback tachs. That will tell you exactly what the converter is doing. I had the old single channel playback tach in my old race car & it was a big help. I have a Racepak V300 in my new car & it is a HUUGGGEEE help. The last race, I hurt my converter. I saw the huge rpm drop on the gear change & where the engine rpm jumped up but the drive shaft rpm stayed the same. I sent the runs to Coan to look at & they said it looks like the sprag going bad. Now before , we would have been guessing. Now I have hard data to back it up. Also a dual channel playback would do the same thing. I would definitely recommend buying one of the tachs. It would be money well spent. Hope this helps..

OOPS!! I thought you were trying to figure out an existing set up. My bad.. ops:
Thats all right! Your advice will work with any power level, I assume! It's just how good you like to be.

It might not help as much with my truck as it would a race car. It's all good info, I am some what clueless about converters!

Edit: My truck is a race truck! LOL It goes so slow though people don't know it! LOL :lol:
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post #13 of 17 (permalink) Old 07-18-2006, 12:46 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by D.I.L.L.I.G.A.S.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jones
Is there any tricks to being able to decide if you are working with a good company? Is there certain questions that must be answered to get the right converter?
"Tricks" to finding a good converter company and/or converter:

Step #1....Ask if the name on the converter is "G.E.R."
Step #2....If the answer is "Yes", RUN the other direction!

Their brainless version of a super wiz-bang "spragless" 8" converter in the late 80's-early 90's was nothing more than a conventional 8" converter with it's stator sprag bearing mig welded up solid. The damn things would slip & freewheel the whole pass. They would get so hot the paint would peel off the converter after just a few passes. And their C-6 trans-brakes.....Ugh! what a mess!
I was looking a Precision converters out of the Oakland, Tn area. But all they offer is a 9.5" This is why I was wondering about different size converters.
I was thinking of around a 2,800-3,000 stall. Where as other companies offer 10" with the same stall. I didn't know if a company that only offered one size converter would really be the best way to go. Being that they are limited on converter sizes.

www.converter.com


Or, if I should just go with the cheap $250 2,500rpm stall converter?

Don't get me wrong. I am also asking information about high hp cars. I am always at the track and just want to expand my knowledge on the subject.
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post #14 of 17 (permalink) Old 07-18-2006, 10:35 PM
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I just bought a tci break away converter for my 79 f-100. I paid extra for the anti ballooning plates in case I spray it a little. My engine is somewhat modified at around 500 hp--that was calc from qtr mile time and weight. I haven't gotten a chance to run the new converter yet, but it should be in the 2400-2600 rpm stall range, well according to tci. Should be a good step up from the stock converter we were running. It was $358 from summit. I thought it would be a good place to go after we were done using the stock one.


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post #15 of 17 (permalink) Old 07-19-2006, 07:44 AM
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Personal experience:

I have run two converters in my car. The first was an Art Carr 10" 2700 stall that had anti-balloon plates and XXX. This converter cost me around $600. The converter I'm currently running is a 'Rednecks ???" off Ebay. It's a 3500 stall and has the same features as the Art Carr, but cost significantly less.


I think the Redneck converters are a great deal.

Have a good day!
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