Any Powerstroke gurus here? Got a few ??? about my '95 F350 - 460 Ford Forum
Chilly's Garage A place for non-460 banter.

User Tag List

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
post #1 of 37 (permalink) Old 01-26-2007, 09:46 PM Thread Starter
Forum Contributor
 
Greg_P's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 1,957
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
 
Any Powerstroke gurus here? Got a few ??? about my '95 F350

Not too long ago it started running REAL rough for the first minute or so after starting in the mornings.

With that said, I can start the truck (colder than 50 degrees or so only) and if I hold the throttle pedal down just a tic, and get the RPM up to around 800-1000 rpm, it'll fire right up and run on what seems like 7 cylinders for a minute, then smooth right out and run great the reas of the day.

Checked the glow plug relay, it was good. All the glow plugs are receiving 12 volts, too. Found one dead glow plug by doing a resistance check at the valve cover harness terminal.

Any ideas where to look next? The truck has 216000 miles on it and no known mods other than the fuel pressure regulator spring is shimmed a little.

Thanks for any help,

Greg

In Limbo at all times
Greg_P is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 37 (permalink) Old 01-27-2007, 04:44 AM
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Orangeburg, SC
Posts: 3
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
 
There is an olutstanding website for Ford diesels at www.thedieselstop.com. Even my diesel mechanic (works for the Ford delaership) has used it to troubleshoot problems he can't fix.

Once you get to the main page, look to the left and click on forums. From their you can find the year truck you have a question about.

Good luck.
capitalgain is offline  
post #3 of 37 (permalink) Old 01-27-2007, 08:23 AM
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 8
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
 
I'd suggest a friendlier place over on www.thedieselgarage.com (drama free).

Anyhoo, if this just started i'd say a bad batch of fuel. When was the filter changed last?

Adrianspeeder
adrianspeeder is offline  
 
post #4 of 37 (permalink) Old 01-27-2007, 08:42 AM
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: HOUSTON
Posts: 967
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
 
hey greg,kinda sound like your inj are startin to fall off,esp with 200k+ miles,these diesels tend to wet stack after extended idle time when cold
and cause the inj tim to get carbon fouled and disrupting fuel inj inter the
comustion chamber(top of piston bowl)either you can try just running the crap out of it to generate a lot of heat and boost to help blow the carbon soot out,or try some of the chemicals out there,or your inj are startin to go out,the old style inj 94.5 to 97 modle year powerstroke inj do not have a tungsten carbide coating on the piston intensifier or barrel and will tend to SCUFF easier than the 99.5 to 2003 powerstroke,scuffing occures due to low lubricity in the fuel.(bad fuel,gas,water)if you do get new injectors,get them from a ford dealer,all the new REMAN inj's have the coatings in them........oh cant wait to get my popular hot rodding,supper sweet car bro.wish i could have seen ya at baytown.
later
torino501 is offline  
post #5 of 37 (permalink) Old 01-27-2007, 09:55 AM
richter69
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Mentioned: Post(s)
Tagged: Thread(s)
Quoted: Post(s)
I am a powerstroke guru, its how I make my living. Lots of little details to check , but at those miles the injectors are going to start going downhill from normal wear. If the glowplug system is all fine then I would turn to the injector side of it. One simple test is when the engine is at op temp with it in park, hold the pedal to the floor and see if it if it revs to the limiter clean, no stuttering or stumbles then most time the injectors are ok. If it stutters, blows smoke then they are tired. The injectors from the dealer suck, trust me . They are also way overpriced. I am a delaer for a couple of performance injector companies and a can get stock or modded injectors for a pretty sweet deal. The dieselstop.com is an extremely informational place, and the obs forums are a lot friendlier than the super duty. What weight and type oil do you use? how often do you change it. Wet stack is a condition that will hurt the rings, the tips rarely plug as the tremendous pressure comming out of the nozzel, but they can and usually from the inside due to foreign mateial.
post #6 of 37 (permalink) Old 01-27-2007, 12:42 PM Thread Starter
Forum Contributor
 
Greg_P's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 1,957
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
 
Thanks for the info, I have been checking out the mentioned sites this morning......

I keep reading about kill box tests and stuff like KOEO tests. Are these important?

Also, after doing some reading, I have discovered that I have another little deal that I thought was normal.

Sometimes the engine surges a little bit at cruise, when the rpm is around 1800 or so. Not too bad, hardly noticeable, but it can be felt when the TC is locked up in 3rd or 4th gear.

Could this be another symptom of an injector coming and going? I thought they just died instead of sort of half working.

Also...

Within the last 3000 miles, I have changed the oil and filter (15w40 Rotella, Ford 1995 filter), changed the fuel filter, replaced the hoses to the fuel filter assembly due to leakage, changed the fluid and filter in the tranny, and replaced the water pump.

I have run several tanks of fuel through the truck since the misfire started, so I do not suspect the fuel as being the problem.

I really had no idea how complex these engines were!

Greg

In Limbo at all times
Greg_P is offline  
post #7 of 37 (permalink) Old 01-27-2007, 12:58 PM
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 860
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
 
Quote:
I really had no idea how complex these engines were!
Just wait until you accidently get hold of an exposed injector harness wire while it's energized. Let's just say that you will definitely notice.

Brad
Brad Johnson is offline  
post #8 of 37 (permalink) Old 01-27-2007, 03:54 PM Thread Starter
Forum Contributor
 
Greg_P's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 1,957
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
 
I just did the rev-limit test. At around 2000 rpm, the engine started missing a little, and hesitated there with a little smoke. Then it cleared up and went smoothly to the limiter.

What does this indicate, all the injectors are bad, or just one or two.... Sorry for the dummy questions, but I'm new to the diesels ops:

Greg

In Limbo at all times
Greg_P is offline  
post #9 of 37 (permalink) Old 01-27-2007, 04:16 PM
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: HOUSTON
Posts: 967
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
 
ive had pretty good luck with the oem inj,i cant say for aftermarket,i dont know if the aftermarket industries have the tungstun coating or now days dimoned coating,another ck,......ck for excesive blow by,with the engine at idle.....take off the oil fill cap,there will be some crank case vapor at idle but if it looks like a train,you've got other base engine probloms,rings,pistons,dusted engine,just a simple ck,to make sure your not throwing thousands of dollars at inj when you have a base engine problom,esp at idle,just like a gasser when cold everything is contracted
(pistons rings)as it comes up to operating temp things tighten up. if the veh has been maintained properly you shoud have no probloms,i still have my money on the inj's. just for the record...if you have a dealer install thier injectors,you get a 12/12 nation wide parts/labor warranty,should things go south,might be a little more pricey,but you got the warranty,can aftermarket do that.
torino501 is offline  
post #10 of 37 (permalink) Old 01-27-2007, 05:46 PM
richter69
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Mentioned: Post(s)
Tagged: Thread(s)
Quoted: Post(s)
The aftermarket injs are gonna be fine, heck you can get NEW Alliant Power injectors for 100 less than a dealer. Agreed the base engine needs to be checked, if the blowby does not pulse or seem excessive its usually ok. You can also look at the turbo inlet and instect the wheel for dings or signs of dirt injestion. Fuel pressure needs to be verified, as well as being sure there is no air in the fuel. The little screen on the inside of the filter housing is prone to clogging and this exits any air from the system, but if stopped up it has to go through the fuel rails and possibly injectors. As stated there are a ton of little things to look for, but without experience and some equipment its going to be tough. It sounds as if the injectors are tired, my educated internet guess. Heck I'm only a few hours north, swing it by sometime and we'll give it a look see. If the covers have never been off the harnessses need to be inspected anyway, the pins for the glowplugs burn through and get to the inj pins causing a miss or if bad enough to knock out a whole bank as the idm will go to limp mode. This condition left unatended and severe enough can also knock out a 800 dollar idm.
post #11 of 37 (permalink) Old 01-27-2007, 09:07 PM
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: New Orleans, LA
Posts: 1,979
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 5 Post(s)
 
Hey Jon,

This is what my truck does. rRmember I mentioned it to you when I picked that cage up from you? What's your thoughts on the MAT sensor reading higher than it should be? It reads about 40* more than it should.

Also, what do you think about the EOT sensor? If it's bad will it cause the chugging? I'm wondering if it's bad and the engine doesn't know how cold the oil is and it runs in a default state because of this....

I've unplugged the ICP sensor on several occasions, unlpugged the accelerator pedal assy on several occasions and that's not the problem.

I've also replaced the valve cover gaskets and harnesses under there and added the clips to be safe. Still does it. The chip's been taken out too, still does it.

I'm thinking it's the injectors. My truck has 252K on it, it's a 2001. But, I just started running some Lucal Fuel Treatment in it during the last 3 fillups. Before that it's been awhile since I ran anything. i used to run Diesel Kleen. Since the fuel has been treated it starts fine down into the low 40's..... It wouldn't do that before without any fuel treatment.

Only other thing it could be is maybe the injector o-rings, but if the injectors come out they won't get new o-rings, they'll get replaced.....

Greg, Just try some Lucas Fuel Treatment, or even some Diesel Kleen in it and see if it makes any difference. Mines been doing this for awhile now, just not sure what the cause is. I really need a way to do an injector buzz test, etc...

I got the Lucas at Autozone. I bought the big bottle and 1 little bottle. I used the little bottle on one tank and refill it with the big bottle. I get the Diesel Kleen at Wal-Mart. With the new ULSD fuel I feel that something needs to be run in there. I think I'm onto something with my injector and fuel treatment correlation here as of late.....

Jon, how much is a set of new stock injectors from Alliant? I'm going to try the floor it test tomorrow and see what it does. Do I just floor it or slowly bring the rpm's to max....?

John


87 Mustang, 514, glide, etc...
jbozzelle is offline  
post #12 of 37 (permalink) Old 01-28-2007, 12:06 AM
richter69
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Mentioned: Post(s)
Tagged: Thread(s)
Quoted: Post(s)
the sensors need to be right for the pcm to give proper commands per the conditions. Eot is a biggie, the ebp, map and baro also need to be within .5 volt of one another. The floor test is is from dead idle to full mat. I run a bottle of ford lubricity additve and the cetane as well, but have ever since I have owned a diesel. failing orings usually result in a loss of oil with no noticable other symptoms, it will also blacken the fuel filter right quick. Its pretty tough to work out the little bugs with no type of scan tool, things can get out of wack and not ever turn on a light or set a code.
post #13 of 37 (permalink) Old 01-28-2007, 11:24 AM
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: New Orleans, LA
Posts: 1,979
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 5 Post(s)
 
Thanks Jon,

All I have to deal with is a Diablosport Predator, but it doesn't show the EOT. My MAT is bad, reads higher than it should be. The MAP and BARO are OK.

John


87 Mustang, 514, glide, etc...
jbozzelle is offline  
post #14 of 37 (permalink) Old 02-01-2007, 10:25 AM Thread Starter
Forum Contributor
 
Greg_P's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 1,957
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
 
Jon,

thanks for all the info and extra thanks for the nice offer to help out! I just may take you up on it, too, as I go to OK fairly regularly.

Also, with regard to the floor the gas and rev-limiter test..... What does it mean when the engine stumbles at 2,000 rpm and smokes a litttle, and then revs clean to the limiter?

Thanks!

Greg

In Limbo at all times
Greg_P is offline  
post #15 of 37 (permalink) Old 02-01-2007, 10:49 AM
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: New Orleans, LA
Posts: 1,979
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 5 Post(s)
 
Jon,

Mine stumbles around 2K aswell thn revs fine after that. Also smokes when doing this.

I'm going to check the fuel pressure next. Do you know what the size of the fitting is on the back of the fuel filter housing? Isn'tit like 1/8" straight thread?

John


87 Mustang, 514, glide, etc...
jbozzelle is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the 460 Ford Forum forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.

User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in










Thread Tools Search this Thread
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes
Linear Mode Linear Mode



Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome